Stef1 Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Can any of you wise carving souls offer me sound advice for buying an alpine board? I have been snowboarding on and off for the last 15 years, essentially with soft boots. Over the last few years I've been trying to assemble the stiffest soft boot set up to maximize my carving performance (most recently Kessler BX 163, Nidecker Carbon bindings and Burton Driver Xs). And although this is probably as good as it will get with soft boots, I still feel I'm leagues away from what hardbooters can do with their boards . So, in the quest for ultimate carving pleasure, I've decided to make the jump to hard boots and pure carving boards. Problem is, I haven't got a clue what to get in terms of board, boots or bindings... Here's a bit of context... - I'm 1m80 (5' 11), 82kg (about 180lbs) - I mainly snowboard in Switzerland, which is where I live. The runs tend to be quite crowded and the snow quality fairly variable (downright awful this year) so I need a board that is relatively manoeuvrable and can cope with snow that is not perfectly groomed or icy/ slushy conditions...but I want a board that is fundamentally a carving board and not an all mountain board with some carving capability - I'm also looking for a board that is relatively accessible (given my lack of experience on hard boots) but that I will still enjoy a few years down the line - It probably needs to be a European brand as importing anything from the States costs an absolute fortune in customs duties (so Coliers, Doneks, and Priors are out of the question) I've been staying up way past my bedtime reading most of the great posts on this forum and have a vague idea of what might suit me but I really need some expert advice. What's caught my eye so far is the Kessler 162SL (also looked at the Kessler 168 GS, which seemed more suited to my size and weight, but got slightly confused because it is described as for lighter riders than the 162 - is this because the 162 is stiffer?), the F2 Silberpfeil and Silberpfeil Carbon 168s, and the Nidecker SL 162. I've also had a look at the Pureboarding and Viper websites - but, quite frankly, I found it hard to differentiate between the different models. Could anybody set me along the right path? Would also welcome any advice on boots and bindings... Thank you! Stef1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 if you've lots of money, go kessler/virus/oxess. if you've not so much money, go f2/nidecker/völkl. if you're impoverished, go to ebay.de. sounds like a slalom board is what you're going to need. buying secondhand stuff on the cheap and experimenting that way is a good method of finding out what you're looking for. generally you can sell it on afterward for a similar price. as for boots. go with the ones that fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Start out with boots - get the right size and get them fitted. Best investment you can make. I would get some plates and ride that Kessler BX to start with then start experimenting - Generally you'll want to go a little longer than your softboot board. Read the articles in the welcome section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 How much would customs be on an $850 USD board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Why not go talk with Joerg from Pureboarding? He has a shop with a bunch of boards, lots of boots, and bindings. Shop is right outside of Zurich. That way you can feel the various boards etc... Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 How much would customs be on an $850 USD board?speaking only from a UK perspective ...shipping +$70ish VAT @20% +$184 ~=£675 import duty +£25 royal mail handling charge +£10 =£710 ~=$1160 ~=€805 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Welcome! Check out the links in my signature... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef1 Posted April 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Thanks for all your replies! I think first trying hard boots on my Kessler BX is very sound advice. And I will definitely pay Joerg from Pureboarding in Zurich a visit. With boots, is it a question of personal preference or are some brands known to be for wider vs thinner feet, more vs less comfortable? And assuming I have the cash to splash out on a top end brand, any views on Kessler vs Oxess vs Virus? Are they known to have different characteristics? Pls keep the advice coming! ; ) Stef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 read through this thread http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33546&highlight=UPZ Also just use the search function and type "UPZ" or "Deeluxe" etc. Boot fitting can be a pain so be patient and get ready for something not to fit despite certain claims. While you may have certain feet characteristics like narrow heel and wider than normal forefoot factors like high or low arches can drastically affect volume and fit and similarly whether or not you pronate (when foot weighted or your gait while walking/running there's inward movement which can also elongate foot thereby affecting fit...in this case orthotics or something along the lines of Superfeet foot support is critical) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhD Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 "...importing anything from the States costs an absolute fortune in customs duties (so Coliers, Doneks, and Priors are out of the question)" Last I heard Canada was still America's hat, not yet a State. Have I been out of the loop or did my small-town American education leave out a few things? http://www.bustedtees.com/canadaamericashat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 "Last I heard Canada was still America's hat, not yet a State. :lol: never heard that one before...wait a second..."not yet" eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 What's caught my eye so far is the Kessler 162SL i just picked up a 156sl, and it's turning out to be a super fun & versatile little rocket; will definitely be my go to board on icy or crowded days; also works great in the softer stuff. damp, forgiving, yet jumps from edge to edge when you power it up more aggressively. great fun when you don't have the room / conditions / cajones to open it up on a longer scr board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 speaking only from a UK perspective ...shipping +$70ish VAT @20% +$184 ~=£675 import duty +£25 royal mail handling charge +£10 =£710 ~=$1160 ~=€805 If the OP pays a similar amount, I think a Coiler would very much be in play. In you think about it, a comparable Donek costs $1,000 USD, so a Coiler to the UK would only cost about $150 USD more shipped. That's really not that bad. OP, if the costs are similar, I think you should very strongly consider a Coiler. They're built custom for you, with the latest in material and shaping. In my opinion, a custom board will always ride better for you than an off-the-shelf board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 If you are happy with the way your Kessler rode, go for another one! SL would do you great, just as well as 168 (maybe weight issue?). However, you could ask Hansyourg to build you a custom one! For the type of riding/conditions you described, I'd go for a narrower BX 168, built specifically for your weigth and hardboots. Alternastivelly, you could ask him to build you a 168 carver, widened to 21, or 21.5. It would automatically end up stiffer and be more versatile, when snow is bad. Whichever way you go, try to get the "hook tail" version, they finish the turns a bit better then standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef1 Posted April 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Thanks BlueB- I'm assuming wider board = stiffer and more stable? And pardon my ignorance, but what is 'hook tail'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Wider board of same thickness and construction would be stiffer then the narrower one. However, any custom board builder can make every width of every stifness you need. Wider board is more stable when gliding and floats better. Also cuts crud better. Most important part is that it allows flatter stance angles that is important for less then ideal conditions and immergency sitations. Many modern race boards are built with progressive side cuts, like 16-22. Board wants to accelerate through turn and is less kin to hold to perpendicular to fall line. Hook tail means slight tightening of the cut at the tail, like 16-22-20, or more of what you'd need 10-14-12, to make it a bit "hookier". Some Kesslers were built like that, but I think that you have to ask for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 OP, if the costs are similar, I think you should very strongly consider a Coiler. That's a big "if". As I have mentioned in another thread, customs and duties are not *that* bad when importing a board - for Austria, add about 25% to the sum of invoiced price and cost of shipping. Especially if you compare a Coiler and, say, a Virus. The irksomeness lies in the shipping. The farther away you are from global cargo hubs, the more a small shipment (like a board) costs. Maybe you can ship Canada --> UK for $ 70,-. For Switzerland, $ 200,- or even 250,- is probably closer to the mark - and don't forget to add tax to that When all's said and done, that Coiler will probably still cost significantly less than a Kessler, though. Even less if you find one or two other carvers in your area, so you can split the shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helvetico Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Why not start with hard boots on your current board? That's what I did before switching to an AM board. Be warned, though, the edge pressure could end up pulling the board apart. BTW, I live in Switzerland too...across the Roestigraben...and had Joerg at PB do my boot liners. He's good at what he does, but has some pretty fixed notions about what constitutes good equipment and what doesn't. What works for him may not work for you, so don't accept his biases (or mine) as empirical truth. Go out and try whatever you can get your hands on and decide for yourself. Check out your local Valais makers at Swoard (are they still around?) and our north-of-the-border friends at Virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 I want this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 You can take it for a spin, on good snow conditions, while I'm testing your 174... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef1 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Thanks to everyone for their feedback. I now have a much better idea of what sort of equipment I should be looking for! BlueB - funnily enough, I was in Verbier yesterday for the last snowboarding session of the winter season (snow was a dangerous mix of slush and ice) and I became much more conscious about having to apply pressure on my rear foot to finish turns on my Kessler BX - especially on front side turns. So your comment about 'hook tails' on Kesslers is sounding more and more pertinent! Just as an aside, I also tried Palmer PLS risers for the first time yesterday and, boy, what a revelation! When I first got them I couldn't believe that I'd paid for what was essentially a fairly cheap looking piece of plastic and rubber. But they really do make a difference! I could get much lower when carving and they seemed to absorb bumps and shocks much better, making riding much more comfortable. I didn't feel I lost much in terms of snow feel either - was just like switching to a car with much smoother suspension! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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