Duckfoot? Really?

[kantmakm]

Set yourself with flat front foot angle on softies and try.

Like that's ever gonna happen! :lol:

I started on a backwoods in sorels and I pumped frontside... Not duckfoot stance, however...

I'll take my kid's word for it that it is easier.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You mean "pushed", not "pumped". Pumping is self-propelled motion on a skateboard without putting a foot down. And yeah, once the foot is more or less straight across many people find it easier to push off the heel side.

[Rob Stevens]

I carve, do not sit on the toilet, or lick the bosses ass.

[Ian M]

Google video search didn't yield much, so I just watched the video descriptions of the CASI level 3 and 4 courses again. There is some really clean soft-boot carving in there, no toilet-butt, all low angles.

Rob, are there any 'feature-length' videos from CASI on soft-boot carving?

[slopestar]

Google video search didn't yield much, so I just watched the video descriptions of the CASI level 3 and 4 courses again. There is some really clean soft-boot carving in there, no toilet-butt, all low angles.

Rob, are there any 'feature-length' videos from CASI on soft-boot carving?

Slow style switch riding(I am regular foot) angles are 18 front -3 back

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[BobD]

I have never been inclined to try riding duck, but I've seen a few people carving well with that stance. What would be very interesting to see, would be videos from people who are able to carve well with both duck, and forward stances, so the differences could be clearly seen. To my mind, if you just want to carve the cord, and surf the pow, duck certainly appears to restrict the best movements for these two things. Not to mention the very unnatural neck twist.

Would like to see Martin (below) do the same turns with a forward stance..

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[b0ardski]

A comparison video is a great idea. I'd love to see that. Same turns on the same slope for direct comparison. It won't be me, duck hurts my 48yr old abused knees. Maybe I can talk Kram into doing the demo for my camera, he rides softies alot and carves plates well.

I've seen a duckfooted softbooter carve a perfect full circle about 15+ft diameter toe side, so I know it can be done. Very few will have the skills to carve both duck & alpine well.

The neck twist thing is why I started learning to ride fakie in the 1st place 20 yrs ago. After several days in a row of riding practice my neck would be sore & tight on the right side from looking over my front shoulder to the point I couldn't ride anymore and had to go back to skis for a while.

By riding switch and looking over my left shoulder even 10% of the time I could balance the muscle strain and ride comfortably day after day.

[Keenan]

I took an instructors clinic yesterday at Mt. Bachelor and was surprised to learn that duck is the new industry standard. The AASI does not want instructors to differentiate between regular and goofy foot riding. All of the rental boards at the mountain are set up duck unless otherwise requested. We as instructors are supposed to encourage riding in either direction without choosing a preference. Out of the six people in the clinic I was the only one with both feet pointing in a forward stance (45% 30%). I am thinking that I should spend more time learning to become a ski instructor. This should be an interesting season.

[Mxjas38]

"The AASI does not want instructors to differentiate between regular and goofy foot riding. "

Must have been a problem of bullying "Goofy vs. Regular" among the park rats, while sitting across the entire trail in front of every feature.

[b0ardski]

makes me glad I learned to ride before there were instructors:freak3:

[BobD]

I am thinking that I should spend more time learning to become a ski instructor.

It is definitely the reason I choose to concentrate on ski instruction, with snowboard secondary.

[Ian M]

^ Nice video BobD

The soft/hard comparison video is something that I could do in a month or so. My boards are a little different though; around 10m SCR on the soft board and 13m on both carving boards.

For me it's the soft-boot carving that has to be brought up to par. I can do it well with forward angles, but duck is definitely different. I'm going to try some binding tweaks to make my knees happier, though. If successful, the result should be increased mobility also.

Cheers

[BigBump]

I just did an AASI Eastern Division clinic and we talked about using forward angles on rental boards so the board has a bit of directionality for newbies. I guess it's a different in the divisions....

Duck foot carving is a different technique. I personally find that I have more range of motion duck. I also ride switch around 50% of the time because I enjoy the symmetry.

I don't really see how duck stance inhibits you in any way. Obviously if it is causing knee pain you shouldn't use it.

The reason alot of people think it hurts their heelside carve is because of their technique not their setup.

For a solid heelside carve duck, you have to be almost completely collapsed as you change edges and then as you extend into the turn, focus on keeping your hips CLOSER to the snow than your knees. Do these two things and keep your weight forward through the turn and the board will hook up like crazy.

[BobD]

^ Nice video BobD

That's Emdee on the forum, if it wasn't clear.

[BobD]

I don't really see how duck stance inhibits you in any way. Obviously if it is causing knee pain you shouldn't use it.

The reason alot of people think it hurts their heelside carve is because of their technique not their setup.

For a solid heelside carve duck, you have to be almost completely collapsed as you change edges and then as you extend into the turn, focus on keeping your hips CLOSER to the snow than your knees. Do these two things and keep your weight forward through the turn and the board will hook up like crazy.

Have you tried riding with forward angles at your current level of skill? That's assuming you know how to angulate with forward angles (no slight intended). That's why I think a video of a rider who is expert at both stances would be so revealing. Nothing to do with what's best for beginners, park monkeys, etc. Just what's best for carving slopes in one direction.

[Jack M]

I took an instructors clinic yesterday at Mt. Bachelor and was surprised to learn that duck is the new industry standard. The AASI does not want instructors to differentiate between regular and goofy foot riding. All of the rental boards at the mountain are set up duck unless otherwise requested. We as instructors are supposed to encourage riding in either direction without choosing a preference.

WHAT THE F***?! These people are stupid. A regular person who has never snowboarded before should not try to learn to ride goofy, nor vise versa. If the student has never skateboarded or surfed or ridden a frigging Razor scooter, you ask them which way they would run and slide across a frozen pond, or across their kitchen floor in their socks. I suppose next the "industry" will be teaching "falling leaf" as a skill! When I was instructing, two HUGE signs of someone who was not meant to snowboard at all were the inability to choose regular or goofy, and resorting to falling leaf in lieu of actually turning the goddamn snowboard.

OMFG. AASI

What a bunch of bed-wetting hand-wringing window-lickers.

[BigBump]

So if they use falling leaf they should give up on snowboarding? I'm glad to hear you don't teach anymore Jack. I love getting the turboleafer lesson, so easy to get them comfy on toeside. Though I suppose it's easier to tell them to just give up.....

With rental boards set 15,-15 you could let them try skating and doing some one footed glides with either foot forward to see which one is natural then have them stick with that. I think for kids it's easier to set them forward, though even that gets tricky because they are still developing a sense of right and left.

Also, nothing wrong with teaching falling leaf, it's great way to develop steering the board. I just wouldn't end a lesson with it.

[Jack M]

So if they use falling leaf they should give up on snowboarding?

If they use it to go down the entire bunny trail without turning, after the point where you have tried to teach actual turning, yes, most likely.

I'm glad to hear you don't teach anymore Jack. I love getting (giving?) the turboleafer lesson, so easy to get them comfy on toeside.

Talk about a cop-out shortcut.

Though I suppose it's easier to tell them to just give up.....

I didn't do that.

With rental boards set 15,-15 you could let them try skating and doing some one footed glides with either foot forward to see which one is natural then have them stick with that.

That's a good idea... as long as you fix the bindings to a proper stance once they decide.

I think for kids it's easier to set them forward, though even that gets tricky because they are still developing a sense of right and left.

What is this, Waldorf school of Snowboarding? Kids with snowboarding aptitude know which way they stand before the lesson, or they figure it out in about 20 seconds.

Also, nothing wrong with teaching falling leaf, it's great way to develop steering the board. I just wouldn't end a lesson with it.

Maybe for a fleeting moment after you teach side-slipping and traversing. But a good beginner lesson plan needs no falling leaf step. Hundreds of satisfied customers say I'm right.

Anyway, falling leaf is not really what I was arguing against. The idiocy of not choosing regular or goofy was.

[Bora20]

I am going to teach my friend the basics in a couple of weeks. She came over and tried her new gear (my old stuff) on the carpet.

I had the bindings set to 15/-15 just to get an idea of where she could be. I showed her the basics of how to stand and the reason behind the duck stance, which she had used once before.

We figured out her dominant foot and she is regular, which is weird b/c she is left handed, bats left, but throws with her right.

By the end of my 5 minute carpet lesson, we had moved the bindings to 15/0. I am sure once we get on the hill, we will move them more to 15/6 or 18/6 as she has no interest in going backwards or jumping.

She did like my hard boot gear though

[Beckmann AG]

...which is weird b/c she is left handed, bats left, but throws with her right.

Not that odd... 'Handedness' and 'footedness' has little to do with it.

[Steve Prokopiw]

I took an instructors clinic yesterday at Mt. Bachelor and was surprised to learn that duck is the new industry standard. The AASI does not want instructors to differentiate between regular and goofy foot riding. All of the rental boards at the mountain are set up duck unless otherwise requested. We as instructors are supposed to encourage riding in either direction without choosing a preference. Out of the six people in the clinic I was the only one with both feet pointing in a forward stance (45% 30%). I am thinking that I should spend more time learning to become a ski instructor. This should be an interesting season.

a couple of years ago,this is the reason I am no longer a member.AASI's need to dick-tate

what I teach and what customers will want,particularly when it makes so little sense for most adults has driven me out.

That's ok;my snowboarding life both in instruction and freeriding has been more fun and fulfilling without them.

[Bora20]

Not that odd... 'Handedness' and 'footedness' has little to do with it.

The weird part was what she does with each hand, being left handed and throwing with her right. Just struck me as odd.

[BigBump]

What I meant by the turboleafer lesson are the people that only do heelside falling leaf(if they leaf, it's heelside 99% of the time). It's so easy to get them comfy on toeside and onto linking turns at that point since they typically have the balance and board control figured out at that point and just need the confidence to apply it to toeside and link turns. Sorry for the confusion.

If they use it to go down the entire bunny trail without turning, after the point where you have tried to teach actual turning, yes, most likely.

Emphasis on tried. Sounds like a teaching issue to me.

What is this, Waldorf school of Snowboarding? Kids with snowboarding aptitude know which way they stand before the lesson, or they figure it out in about 20 seconds.

I meant firguring out which direction to set the bindings. The forward stance gives them a sense of direction so I guess it doesn't matter since they may not have developed the ability to tell left from right yet(note by kids I'm talking 7year olds and younger).

Jack, I don't doubt that you had hundreds of happy clients that you taught without using falling leaf. You are certainly knowledgable about carving and snowboarding in general.

I just have a different approach, I don't have a "set" beginner lesson anymore. I pull from my bag of tricks as needed, and one of those tricks is certainly falling leaf. Used correctly, it can be a great teaching tool, even in upperlevel riding. Used incorrectly, and like so many other teaching excercises, and it's useless or detrimental to learning.

[Jack M]

Emphasis on tried. Sounds like a teaching issue to me.

Hmm, clever. :rolleyes:

Whatever, this thread is not about falling leaf, which is not a trick you need in your bag, the trick you need in your bag is how to get them out of falling leaf (which yes, I had). That said I won't participate in this thread-jack further.

The point is if what Keenan said is in fact AASI policy and not an anecdote, then AASI is run by complete fools. It is no wonder skiing is cool again. So many snowboarders just look dumb anywhere outside of a park.

[BobD]

As most snowboards are directional, and for the type of snowboarding at least half the boarders do, a very directional board is best, it makes no sense to limit people to duck. I've met several skiers who have recently tried snowboarding, all of them found it uncomfortable, and awkward, I wonder why?