A "Master Boot Fitter" said to me >

[Jack M]

So what brand of foot beds are in the $175 range , that is much more reasonable than $300, are the foot beds you run the same Thermo-flex brand as your liners ?

No, they were made by a local footbed-maker, and general alpine guru, Erik Beckman at Sugarloaf.

It seems that I can buy a decent pair of foot beds and when I am ready to move up to new boots I can transfer them over to the new boots.

Yes.

If I am correct , the consensus seems to be that even tho a boot is so called "top of the line" and very pricey the liner is going to be like all other liners and not as good as aftermarket ?

I was under the impression that when You buy a Ferrari ( boot) you don't need to buy tires as they already come with Pirreli tires ( liners ) attached.

I don't know about ski boots, but Deeluxe boots come with Thermoflex liners.

http://www.bomberonline.com/store/boots/deeluxe.cfm

Head snowboard hardboots come with a partially moldable liner.

[NateW]

Like Mr. E said, lines and foodbeds solve different problems. Which one is more important depends on which problems are causing your feet the most trouble in your boots. I am surprised that a professional boot fitter would make such a sweeping generalization.

[Loo Sports]

lets start from the ground up....

Orthotics (not footbeds) are an essential item. Orthotics support your foot in a very crucial position. (the same position that boots are made around) footbeds are just a mold of the bottom of the foot and generally wont hold the foot in the ideal position. Footbeds are WAY better then nothing, but in a perfect world, we would all be on a proper orthotic made by a boot-fitter (doctors cannot deal with the rest of the boot issues and the interface, so thats why i say boot-fitter)

When it comes to liners.... stock generic liners are generally not very good for most people... and they wear out VERY quickly. Heat fit (intuition liners) are a better option for some, but they as well wear out quickly. THe best thing possible is a injected liner. They provide the best support, last the longest and are the most comfortable. They are especially best when it comes to the tongue and the heel/ankle hold. They fill in all the voids between the foot and the shell, rather then compressing around the foot. (i hope that makes sense....)

This is all assuming that you have the right shell for you. The best boot-fitting can make the right boot way better, but wont make the wrong boot right. When it comes to alpine snowboard boots, your selection is quite slim (as you know). Your boot-fitter was correct in everything he was saying, except the liner part in my opinion. Find the best shell and get thotic and liner.. you will love it. I have personally fit most of the north american world cup riders, olympians (a gold medalist...) and world champs. They all follow this approach. and they ALL use othotics.

I hope this helps a bit

Happy riding

Ari

[Jack M]

Agreed, what I have are orthotics. Very structural. You get what you pay for.

As for liners I have gotten many years out of my Thermoflexes. I've definitely gotten my money's worth out of them. But I don't doubt injected liners are better.

[carvedog]

I haven't ridden stock footbeds or liners for about 17 years.

I did try one run in stock Burton liners actually. That was one of the most painful 20 minutes of snowboarding ever.

I don't remember what I paid, but I did the superfeet with the little pincushion thing you stand on. Still use them in my softies.

The others were done from a mold and then did some grinding to adjust the height and they are superb. The only time I get foot pain is if I go too tight before my foot is warmed up. Loose® buckles on my first run or half run. Then normal tight and away we go. 6 to 7 hours no problem.

My liners are the conformable and were $200 to $300 if I remember right. But worth it to not have foot pain.

[SteveInOregon]

lets start from the ground up....

Orthotics (not footbeds) are an essential item. Orthotics support your foot in a very crucial position. (the same position that boots are made around) footbeds are just a mold of the bottom of the foot and generally wont hold the foot in the ideal position. Footbeds are WAY better then nothing, but in a perfect world, we would all be on a proper orthotic made by a boot-fitter (doctors cannot deal with the rest of the boot issues and the interface, so thats why i say boot-fitter)

When it comes to liners.... stock generic liners are generally not very good for most people... and they wear out VERY quickly. Heat fit (intuition liners) are a better option for some, but they as well wear out quickly. THe best thing possible is a injected liner. They provide the best support, last the longest and are the most comfortable. They are especially best when it comes to the tongue and the heel/ankle hold. They fill in all the voids between the foot and the shell, rather then compressing around the foot. (i hope that makes sense....)

This is all assuming that you have the right shell for you. The best boot-fitting can make the right boot way better, but wont make the wrong boot right. When it comes to alpine snowboard boots, your selection is quite slim (as you know). Your boot-fitter was correct in everything he was saying, except the liner part in my opinion. Find the best shell and get thotic and liner.. you will love it. I have personally fit most of the north american world cup riders, olympians (a gold medalist...) and world champs. They all follow this approach. and they ALL use othotics.

I hope this helps a bit

Happy riding

Ari

I don't want to mis-quote the boot fitter that I had the long conversation with, I do vaguely remember him talking about orthotics but I was getting over loaded with info.

It was like talking to a very pretty women with nice giant boobs, I asked her for directions and all I remember was > turn right a breast lane, LOL. :D.

So , ya I am going to invest in orthotics and just move on from there and asses them ,and re-eval whether I need a liner if the fit and comfort is not what I wish it to be after a session or two.

thank You

[Loo Sports]

I don't want to mis-quote the boot fitter that I had the long conversation with, I do vaguely remember him talking about orthotics but I was getting over loaded with info.

It was like talking to a very pretty women with nice giant boobs, I asked her for directions and all I remember was > turn right a breast lane, LOL. :D.

So , ya I am going to invest in orthotics and just move on from there and asses them ,and re-eval whether I need a liner if the fit and comfort is not what I wish it to be after a session or two.

thank You

Thats to funny!! :lol:

That sounds like a great plan... Enjoy and have fun!

Ari

[murphy12]

FWIW, I am a bootfitter, and a hardbooter. The place to start is a good custom footbed. Moldable liners function far better if a proper foundation is present.

One does not build a house on a pile of sand and expect it to last.

Please bear in mind that not all footbeds are created equal.

[Loo Sports]

FWIW, I am a bootfitter, and a hardbooter. The place to start is a good custom footbed. Moldable liners function far better if a proper foundation is present.

One does not build a house on a pile of sand and expect it to last.

Please bear in mind that not all footbeds are created equal.

Well put!

[MUD]

No, they were made by a local footbed-maker, and general alpine guru, Erik Beckman at Sugarloaf.

I wonder why Mr. Beckman has not chimed on this one yet????

I keep waiting for his reply.

[Beckmann AG]

Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Jack Michaud

No, they were made by a local footbed-maker, and general alpine guru, Erik Beckman at Sugarloaf.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

I wonder why Mr. Beckman has not chimed on this one yet????

Commissioner Gordon forgot to pay the utility bill?

I keep waiting for his reply.

Yes, I made Jack's footbeds. No, I am not a guru. That is, however, the correct spelling of my name, and I do work at Sugarloaf.

Or have I misunderstood your post...?

[Mark Brown]

No, I am not a guru.

You, sir, are being *much* too modest!

[rjnakata]

FWIW, I am a bootfitter, and a hardbooter. The place to start is a good custom footbed. Moldable liners function far better if a proper foundation is present.

One does not build a house on a pile of sand and expect it to last.

Please bear in mind that not all footbeds are created equal.

murphy12: in your opinion what is the most "equal" of the many available off-the-shelf footbeds out there?

ie which one is the best?

[MUD]

Commissioner Gordon forgot to pay the utility bill?

Yes, I made Jack's footbeds. No, I am not a guru. That is, however, the correct spelling of my name, and I do work at Sugarloaf.

Or have I misunderstood your post...?

I figured you would give us your opinion. Oh well, sarcasm works just fine as well.

You can keep your opinion to your self...... Sorry I asked.

[Beckmann AG]

....has a biting edge to it. Kind of like magnetraction. Or it's close relative, the tomato knife.

My response was in part an homage to the recently departed Leslie Nielsen.

Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Beckmann AG

Commissioner Gordon forgot to pay the utility bill?

Yes, I made Jack's footbeds. No, I am not a guru. That is, however, the correct spelling of my name, and I do work at Sugarloaf.

Or have I misunderstood your post...?

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

I figured you would give us your opinion. Oh well, sarcasm works just fine as well.

You can keep your opinion to your self...... Sorry I asked.

So you figured wrong. The plane (OP) was already falling out of the sky, so there was no need for me to pump more flak into the air.

No need to get peeved at me for 'answering' your apparent query.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. In the future, I shall aim to be more presumptuous, and avoid attempts at humor.

[WEBSIGHT360]

I get a huge kick out of some of your responses, murky as they may be. You most often clarify them in later posts anyway. It is often difficult to read a posters true intent initially in some threads, but that's what makes the interweb and these forums so entertaining, to me anyway. The Commissioner Gordon post in particular made me LOL...now let me get back to my lurking... :D

[Fastskiguy]

are you all set or do you need more comments....I've got comments damn it!

[bjvircks]

comments?

COMMENTS?????

WE DON"T NEED NO STINKIN' COMMENTS!

[SteveInOregon]

comments?

COMMENTS?????

WE DON"T NEED NO STINKIN' COMMENTS!

Well I keep dragging my posts way off topic into bizarre-0-land, and sticking my hard boot in my mouth so I am really leery to even post anything anymore, lol, which by the way will make some guy's very happy, but go ahead I am all ears and empty head , lol .:D

PS: I did go put some $40 foot beds in and they don't do a darn thing over the cheep-0 pair of Dr Schoals I had in them. :)

[Fastskiguy]

Maybe I missed a post or two but I'm just going with the others that said....

"get a custom footbed and then a molded liner"

You just need both, you just do.

Comment submitted! Yay!

[SteveInOregon]

Maybe I missed a post or two but I'm just going with the others that said....

"get a custom footbed and then a molded liner"

You just need both, you just do.

Comment submitted! Yay!

You comment was submitted and a dam good one it tiz, :biggthumplol.

Ya your right, thank You;)