Learning to teach carving

[Ian M]

Hi all,

I'd like to learn how to teach people to carve, so that I can share my enthusiasm for this sport with others. What paths or approaches are available?

Further background for my question:

• I only freecarve, and that is what I intend to teach. I have no racing experience.
  
• This is my 16th season on hardboots, as best I can remember. I consider myself to be a pretty decent carver.
  
• I do have my CASI (Canadian Association of Snowboard Instructors) Level 1, which I completed sometime around 1998. Continuing the CASI progression is one option, but learning from an individual who is not part of a recognized organization is fine also. CASI's only carve-specific module is in Level 4, and I'm not sure whether it focuses more on the attendee's skills or pedagogy.
  
• Traveling to train with someone is an option, but my budget is fairly limited.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Cheers!

Ian M

[BlueB]

There is a CASI Carving module in between L1 and L2. Not compulsory for L2 attendance.

L2 focusses on carving about 40-50%, more for soft boot application, of course.

[Ian M]

^ BlueB, does that module teach you how to carve, or how to teach carving? Do you have any idea why it's not listed on CASI's website?

Thanks!

[Jack M]

I really think The Norm is the gateway to carving.

[Ian M]

I really think The Norm is the gateway to carving.

I just reviewed that article, Jack, and it is very helpful. From what I remember of my session with Joerg at Stratton last year, his teaching seemed to echo yours, with minor variations.

Thanks!

[BlueB]

It's listed under improvement sessions:

http://www.casi-acms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=94&Itemid=146〈=en

There use to be a full "Carving Instructor" title, just as they've still got "Park Instructor". No clue why it's been demoted!? :(

And yes, they teach you how to tech carving at L2. I would assume it's the same with the Improvement Sessions. Why don't you give them a buzz?

[Beckmann AG]

I'd like to learn how to teach people to carve, so that I can share my enthusiasm for this sport with others.

So...are you looking to teach commercially, or do you have a bunch of cohorts constantly looking to you for help?

• I consider myself to be a pretty decent carver.
  
• ... CASI's only carve-specific module is in Level 4, and I'm not sure whether it focuses more on the attendee's skills or pedagogy.
  
• Traveling to train with someone is an option, but my budget is fairly limited.

Do you have difficulty translating your understanding of what you do, to someone with much less experience, and/or athletic ability?

Do you wish to augment your own skill set, or do you seek a better grasp of causal links/obstacles to achievement?

As I recall, you 'LOL-ed' the notion of the free instruction included with the on mountain lodging packages at Sugarloaf/USA. There are any number or riders, some of them contributors to this forum, (and some not) who have taken advantage of this scheme for many years running.

Effective teaching of skiing or snowboarding has much to do with identifying and removing obstacles to intuitive, latent movements. Generally speaking, it is a reductive, rather than an additive process; much like stone sculpture, or perhaps, machining.

Or, if you prefer, a potato block print.

[Ian M]

^ Hi Beckmann AG. I've spoken to several people recently who expressed a desire to try carving equipment, and I'd like to be better equipped to help them overcome "their obstacles to intuitive movement". Teaching commercially would be an option if I achieve further professional certification.

My own path learning to carve has been a long one, with a lot of trial and error. When people ask me "how long have you been riding?", (which I hear as "how long will it take ME to get THERE?") I don't think that they like the answer. So my goal is to accelerate the learning of others by improving my ability to communicate the key concepts of carving, and identify any obstacles.

Yes, I did laugh off the free lessons, but only because I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that Sugarloaf did not have a hard-boot instructor on staff. From your response now I might venture a guess that you, or someone you know, instructs there. May I ask what your background is?

Cheers!

[Ian M]

It's listed under improvement sessions:

http://www.casi-acms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=94&Itemid=146〈=en

There use to be a full "Carving Instructor" title, just as they've still got "Park Instructor". No clue why it's been demoted!? :(

And yes, they teach you how to tech carving at L2. I would assume it's the same with the Improvement Sessions. Why don't you give them a buzz?

Cool. Thanks for the link! I will look into this and see when they might be running it.

Did you find it a challenge to do the L2 with hard boots? I did my L1 on hard boots, and later chose to teach beginner classes with soft boots for both comfort and demonstration purposes.

[dingbat]

I really think The Norm is the gateway to carving.

Bingo.

I've had pretty good results with this. Usually have someone carving in a run or two and then everything builds from there. Biggest problem I run into is when someone can't get by kicking their rear foot out or counter-rotating. I'll take them to the flat, stand along side them in my boots, have them lean and "fall" to me as I push them forward in a carve. This way they get the feeling of rolling the board in to the side cut and a clean carve. Once they have that feeling, the rest is fairly easy.

[trailertrash]

^ Hi Beckmann

Yes, I did laugh off the free lessons, but only because I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that Sugarloaf did not have a hard-boot instructor on staff. From your response now I might venture a guess that you, or someone you know, instructs there. May I ask what your background is?

Cheers!

Ian, meet Jack's Yoda.

Yeah, he gave the clinics at the loaf.

:)

[pow4ever]

Yes, I did laugh off the free lessons, but only because I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that Sugarloaf did not have a hard-boot instructor on staff. From your response now I might venture a guess that you, or someone you know, instructs there. May I ask what your background is?

Cheers!

Maybe I am el-Cheapo. I took adventage of lodge/lesson packages when I can. Even the free mountain tours when it's place I never been.

A big group lessons can be somewhat point less. But I won't say there isn't something to offer.

I have had great luck with those lodge lessons:

Sugarloaf: Yes. Mr. Beckmann does teach there on HB. He can and did overwhelm me with influx of infomation. But that's stupidity on my part. He notice the blank stare and break down the lesson to something even the likes of me can understand.

Just as a tip: bring all your cant disk or a catek binding. So he can help you dial in the setup.

He also does custom footbed and heat mold liner. it's well worth the 8 hours trips to get to sugar loaf just for the "Free" hour session with Eric.

Jay Peak lodge lessons: Those instrucors are poaching pow with me(I am a big chicken and will not duck under the rope unless I was told :) ). Not by request; they just want to share their love for the moutain with the guests.

Just my 2 cents.

David

[Ian M]

Biggest problem I run into is when someone can't get by kicking their rear foot out or counter-rotating.

Agreed. I did the same thing as you; tried to simulate rolling the board and feeling the pressure down to the edge. This worked in some cases, but when it didn't, I had no other way to present the concept.

Ian, meet Jack's Yoda. Yeah, he gave the clinics at the loaf. :)

Excellent! I was unaware that hard-boot instructors were so nearby. Time to familiarize myself with the 'instructor lookup' feature here!

@ Pow4ever - Great tips, thank you. I've had some very good experiences with free mountain guides too... they can be really helpful in finding terrain that rocks your world :)

[BlueB]

Did you find it a challenge to do the L2 with hard boots? I did my L1 on hard boots, and later chose to teach beginner classes with soft boots for both comfort and demonstration purposes.

Yes, it was a chellange, on multiple aspects. More details on the email, if you wish.

boris at blueb dot biz

After my L1 on hard boots, I carried on teaching on H/boots for a year, then was forced into softies. I bagged, nagged and argued for 2 years to get back on plates, for confort (surprise?) and ease/speed of the interface. I demonstrate with super low angles, anyhow (30/15). Doing L2 on h/boots was a part of my struggle to win they battle with snowschool management.

[Beckmann AG]

Ian,

While many larger resorts will require some form of certification for employment, many smaller ones do not. Certification, or lack thereof, seldom, if ever, plays a role in my hiring decisions. Ergo, if you have an interest in teaching, don't let this be a barrier to participation.

If you are at a place in your life when you can spend a season on snow, you should give it a go. The remuneration will come in the form of hill time, the occasional breakthrough, and every so often you meet nice people and bluff them into thinking you know what you are doing.....

The bulk of teaching, as you may already know, takes place at the beginner/lower intermediate level, which means you spend a lot of time moving slowly across the snow. If you pay attention, this, by itself, will reveal the gaps in your 'technique'. The lack of momentum presents one with two paths: You figure out which movements are necessary and appropriate, or you cheat.

I.E., if you wish to ride well fast, choose to ride well slow.

Most riders present with at least three strikes against them. (Fortunately, snowboarding is not baseball.) Their feet are too far apart, their front binding is mounted too far forward, and their boards are too wide for their foot size. Each problem puts the rider in a situation where their movement options are limited, and the board essentially dictates what the rider can do next. Often the related outcomes are not pretty.

There are other issues concerning the athletes conformation.

This is the case for both hard- and soft-booters.

Skiers have issues of a similar nature.

Many enthusiasts don't like to use equipment as some sort of excuse; regardless, the 'technique' one applies is often directly determined by the boot binding board interface. (EC/BOL/WC considered stylistic choices).

The snowboard program at Sugarloaf has been my long-term research facility since 1990. I get on well with machinery, and I don't much care for asparagus.

[Keyser Soze]

Excellent! I was unaware that hard-boot instructors were so nearby.

Ian, if you're thinking about making the trek out to Loaf, let me know. Becks has been key in helping me figure out some equipment issues and I'd be game to cough up some cake for a consultation + lesson.

... as long as I can get time off work, heh heh heh.

[Ian M]

If you are at a place in your life when you can spend a season on snow, you should give it a go.

I am at this place, I'm just deliberating whether I desire to spend significant time riding, but not carving. In the long run I may carve more, due to the amount of time on the hill and not having to pay for lift tickets.

Each problem puts the rider in a situation where their movement options are limited, and the board essentially dictates what the rider can do next.

Well said. This has been my experience also. After riding flat/flat 60/60 on a race board that didn't fit my style for 7 years, I invested the bulk of last season experimenting with my entire setup. This included upgrading board, boots, and bindings. It was well worth it. Mobility and balance both increased substantially, and long-fought issues with my heel edge disappeared as my stance 'got out of my way'. My endurance almost doubled also.

When I get out to Sugarloaf, I'd love for you to take a look at my setup and riding also. I'm not sure whether that will be this season or next, but I will make it happen.

I get on well with machinery, and I don't much care for asparagus.

If asparagus is a metaphor, it is lost on me. If you're actually talking about asparagus, it's connection to the conversation is lost on me :)

Many thanks for all of the tips and suggestions!

Cheers,

Ian

[Ian M]

Ian, if you're thinking about making the trek out to Loaf, let me know. Becks has been key in helping me figure out some equipment issues and I'd be game to cough up some cake for a consultation + lesson.... as long as I can get time off work, heh heh heh.

I'm trying to make a choice between Sugarloaf for 5 days riding with you guys, and doing my level 2 at a small local hill. (Calabogie) As it stands right now, I only have the time and money to do one or the other this season. :(

It seems to me a tough choice!

Cheers

[powdahbonz]

Ian...just save your $ for The Loaf. It's going to be a great winter.

[carvedog]

I.E., if you wish to ride well fast, choose to ride well slow.

I get on well with machinery, and I don't much care for asparagus.

The part about riding slow is so true. People have come to me over the years and I encourage them that if they want to learn to ride better - teach. A big part of that is making the slow moves look smooth and effortless even when they are not.

Getting caught in the wrong gear for beginners or advanced beginners and being at 65/60 is a terrific lesson in balance, slow rotary moves and controlled flex/extension.

Sometimes after doing this for a couple of hours I have gone and RIPPED it up when I could freeride at lunch or something.

I'm trying to make a choice between Sugarloaf for 5 days riding with you guys, and doing my level 2 at a small local hill. (Calabogie) As it stands right now, I only have the time and money to do one or the other this season. :(

It seems to me a tough choice!

Cheers

Riding with the guys for five days would be really fun. Taking the level 2 could put you in the "saddle" more several seasons. Hard to say.

Teaching carving is hard. The movements are ( can be ) very subtle and hard to spot. Ankle and knee movements can be very hidden by boots, clothing etc. The range of movements in most hard booters you would be coaching are small.er. Not talking Jasey Jay here. So you need to be able to get them moving, dynamic and flexible. I have encountered lots of 'hidden' counter rotators in the intermediate to upper levels too.

They typically are self-taught, good at hiding their 'mistakes' and have lots of muscle memory of the patterns that don't serve them so well sometimes.

Rambling on - what I am saying is intermediate to advanced carving lessons, if you want to give them, require a fair bit of study and skill. Do your training if that is what you really want to do.

If you just want to teach you will get a lot more time on the hill, and learn lots of simple ways to have fun sliding.

Good luck.

[Ian M]

Teaching carving is hard. The movements are ( can be ) very subtle and hard to spot.

Oh goody, a challenge! Seriously, I'm glad that you said this. I like paying attention to fine details, analyzing the mechanics of things, and doing activities that are not easily mastered. That's why I enjoy carving so much, and why I believe I will enjoy teaching carving.

Lots of other great comments too, carvedog. I'm finding the different perspectives that you guys are offering on teaching very interesting!

Thank you :)

[Beckmann AG]

I'm just deliberating whether I desire to spend significant time riding, but not carving. In the long run I may carve more, due to the amount of time on the hill and not having to pay for lift tickets.

The advantage to teaching is that the context is constrained. If you are working with a client on shallow terrain, and your usual movements are not working well, you really have no choice other than to acknowledge the flaws in your movement pattern and find new ones. (After all, the movements used while moving very slowly in a novice class should be extremely similar to those used further up the hill.) Whereas when you are on your own, or with friends, you will tend to gravitate towards terrain that suits what you do best, even if that is not in the best interest of your technical development.

The organism is inherently 'lazy', and will find the path of least resistance, as dictated by the characteristics of the board, and whatever technique is brought to bear.

If your movements are not fluid and effortless while moving slowly, you are either outside the functional range of your board, your setup is messed up, or 'you are doing it wrong'.

If asparagus is a metaphor, it is lost on me. If you're actually talking about asparagus, it's connection to the conversation is lost on me :)

Ah, yes, the asparagus...

You asked earlier about my background. Rather than bore you with my CV, I chose two seemingly disparate but related elements affecting on hill practice.

I don't care for that vegetable. I know plenty who do, but I just don't see the attraction. In slidysport, as in diet, quite often it seems there is no accounting for tastes and preferences....

Machines don't have preferences. Rather, they have operating parameters and tendencies. They tend to be predictable. Once you have a comprehensive understanding of a machine, it looks different than it did the first time you laid eyes on it.

As a sheet of music reads differently to a professional musician than to the beginning piano student.

(As you cannot put the notes back in the piano, neither can you put the turns back into the board...)

When a machine malfunctions, you set about repairing the problem, starting with the understanding of how that machine operates.

The human organism "...(is) like any other machine. They're either a benefit or a hazard. If they're a benefit, it's not my problem."

- Deckard

So in teaching, you have the attempted integration of two 'machines': One, inanimate, with no moving parts, and one, sentient, with a lot of moving parts. On a variable, slippery surface no less.

When a snowboarder or skier malfunctions, you have to take into account their tastes, preferences, philosophies, etc. They may execute truly counterproductive movements, and trigger your gag reflex, but those movements may be integral to their sense of self and identity as a winter sports athlete. This difficulty is compounded by one heck of a lot of misinformation in the industry about what is supposed to happen, and when; and the need to mark achievement through outward appearance and/or postural references, incorporating all of the necessary, codified elements of skiing/snowboarding.

So despite the fact that 'you' may be keen on the slender green vegetable, and I am not, 'our' clinic outcome will be predictable and appropriate based on an understanding of the machinery, and a transfer of information relevant to 'your' stage of development.

If you have not already done so, find a copy of Gray's Anatomy (or similar text) and study the skeletal structure and it's individual articulations. Then visualize how those articulations are affected by varying loads, fluctuating muscle tension, and a 'fixed' base of support.

Overlay the musculature and understand that muscles are intended (if you will) to provide/attenuate movement, and not for bearing loads.

Add to that the 'prime directive', which states that the need to remain upright and stable in a given context overrides most all other discretionary movements.

Review your HS physics text, and resolve (to a finite end) all of your on-snow outcomes according to the chapter on introductory kinematics.

To better understand the role of rotary movements, engage a few friends in a spirited game of broom ball. (Assuming you can find some ice devoid of hockeyphiles.)

There is more to it than that, but it's a start.

While you should not get tekky with your clients unless requested, it is important that you understand the science behind what you are attempting to do.

[trailertrash]

The advantage to teaching is that the context is constrained...

The organism is inherently 'lazy', and will find the path of least resistance, as dictated by the characteristics of the board...

...find a copy of Gray's Anatomy (or similar text) and study the skeletal structure and it's individual articulations.

...Review your HS physics text, and resolve (to a finite end) ...

This is why I call him Dr. Frankenboots.

:D

[Ian M]

This is why I call him Dr. Frankenboots.

:D

To be honest, I did find Eric's post above a little overwhelming... I've been thinking about it for the last few days, and I guess I find this 'every nut and bolt' analysis rather new and strange. The funny thing is, though, I'm a mechanical engineering technologist. It's just that my learning in snowboarding so far has had much more of a 'Zen and the Art of Archery' approach to it. (Phenomenal tiny book for anyone who hasn't read it!)

I believe that I constantly analyze my own technique and motions, so most of my break-throughs have occurred when I have let go of any objectives, and focused on my breathing or the way the sun is shining and just allowed the run to unfold flawlessly. Some of the runs that I've had in these moments have been truly 'superhero' and have stuck with me for years, even decades. Looking back, I guess the non-analytical moments are certainly the minority, but also the best and most memorable.

Perhaps it's the combination of approaches which results in high success: practicing and refining the skills until they are automatic and excellent, then 'forgetting' what you know and letting your spirit fly. :D

[Steve Prokopiw]

I'm no engineer,but I also believe that I constantly analyze my own technique.I have had,however some memorable runs that involved more of a subconscious approach,feeling as if the terrain is moving with me...

Or it could have just been the shrooms:)

Just kidding.