Colorado splitboarding; need some direction.

[twelsch42]

Before I go wading through things on someotherforum, I'll ask my fellow carvers for their opinion.

Hopefully some of the Colorado members can chime in.

Anyone have experience with Venture splitboards? At ~$900 they seem pretty reasonably priced. I can't believe I just typed that.

Neversummer (summit) is about $1300, but includes skins and Voile Split Kit. It appears a Venture splitboard only includes the Voile clips which hold both halves together.

I'd love to keep my $$ in Colorado, but, are there any other splits I should consider?

Now on to boots and bindings. I'm a soft-booter at heart, but won't be touring with my FR2's. My daily driver is a Tanker 192 (thanks Thor!). I can't go back to a plasticish binding. Bomber's splitboard-sidewinder binding looks awesome. What would be the pitfalls of using a more mountaineering style boot to spiltboard with?

Could I get some older cheap mountaineering boots to 'practice' with? And then graduate to something nicer. Or am I making up this option is my head?

Anyone care to help me get going in the right direction? Thanks for the heads up!

T

[Jon Dahl]

Are the answer to the boot question. I ride Dynafit TLT4 boots, if you are after a softer boot option this is the way to go. There are stiffer/heavier boots out there that are lighter than SB Raichle boots, too. When my budget recovers from the Donek plate and the snowmobile mods for this season I'll get some splitboard Sidewinders.

[inkaholic]

D.T. picked up a Venture last season but didn't get much time on it. Hopefully he will chime in or you could PM him. Not sure what pcdenver is using but he has a bit more time on his setup than D.T. has. May check with him also.

Ink

[b0ardski]

the toe & heel shape on most hardshell snowboard boots suck for hiking. So most hardboot splitters use AT boots usually with mods to soften the flex.

I use old nordica SBH which are basically an AT boot with a shorter tongue and a lateralflex lockout at the cuff hinge. They work good for me but new boots would save me a pound per foot.

Here's a good thread from Splitboard.com. Lot's more info over there.

http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9040

[Buell]

Before I go wading through things on someotherforum, I'll ask my fellow carvers for their opinion.

Some reading on Splitboard.com can be a big help for your questions.

Hopefully some of the Colorado members can chime in.

How about Utah and Oregon?

Anyone have experience with Venture splitboards? At ~$900 they seem pretty reasonably priced. I can't believe I just typed that.

Neversummer (summit) is about $1300, but includes skins and Voile Split Kit. It appears a Venture splitboard only includes the Voile clips which hold both halves together.

I'd love to keep my $$ in Colorado, but, are there any other splits I should consider?

Yes, splitboards are expensive. We just sold our (mostly Rebecca's) 162 rockered Venture Storm from last season. They are very well made boards if a little too beefy, in my opinion, for taking uphill. It was a really fun board with great float and a nice turn. The reason we sold it is that it does not have a good speed brake for when you need a quick speed check, like when heading into trees from more open terrain. I think this is because there is too much rocker in the tail (it has quite a bit).

I have not ridden a Neversummer split. They are reputed to be very well built but IIRC also a bit on the heavy side. Yes, you are correct that you will need to buy the skins and hardware with the Venture (also the Jones Solution).

You should also consider Prior and the Jones Solution. The Solution is the board I would get this season if I needed a new split for powder and all around.

Prior has several models. I have the Spearhead split, and have a custom 11m sidecut BC split for steeper corn riding on order. Rebecca is riding the Khyber split and loves it. I have not tried it, but it looks like a great shape.

The Voile shape is much better this year than previous years. It now has a rockered nose. Voile is the cheapest cost wise and generally regarded as the cheapest quality wise. They have a stellar reputation for standing behind their product though. Rebecca and I have each owned the unrockered Mojo from previous years and only ride it in spring corn. It is no good for powder in our opinion.

Now on to boots and bindings. I'm a soft-booter at heart, but won't be touring with my FR2's. My daily driver is a Tanker 192 (thanks Thor!). I can't go back to a plasticish binding. Bomber's splitboard-sidewinder binding looks awesome. What would be the pitfalls of using a more mountaineering style boot to spiltboard with?

Could I get some older cheap mountaineering boots to 'practice' with? And then graduate to something nicer. Or am I making up this option is my head?

Splitboard specific softboot bindings (Voile Lightrail, Spark Blaze, Karakorum) have come a huge distance in the last couple of years. For an established reputation and super high quality your option would be the Spark Blaze. You will want stiff softboots for touring (climbing up) to help with the lateral forces created when side hilling.

If you are primarily a softbooter, the main benefit of lightweight AT boots on a split board is going up. To get the most out of them you would get the Dynafit adapters and toepieces from Spark for the uphill. It is so nice to climb with that set up. You will not want any boots that are heavy as it makes a huge difference on the uphill which is 90% of your day. You will likely want to modify the AT boots to soften them up for the downhill. There are several great threads on the main forum and under the boot forum on Splitboard.com. Boardski linked to one that I started specifically about Scarpa F1s and F3s.

If you choose the AT boot route, there is a good chance the Sidewinder split bindings will be the best thing going, but they are untested, except by Fin and maybe a couple of others. I really dislike the Voile Mountain Plates and currently ride the Voile slider plates with F2 toe and heel blocks mounted to them. I will hopefully be testing Spark slider plates with Sidewinders soon but I don't know when Will would be comfortable releasing them to everyone.

I am not sure what you mean by "mountaineering style" boots. Some people have used modified mountaineering boots in softboot bindings but I don't think many find this to be a good solution.

Enjoy.

[twelsch42]

Wow! thanks everyone for your input so far. Just the kind of information I was looking for.

T

[Buell]

If you want to keep it simple to start, get a good board, Voile hardware, and a set of Spark Blaze bindings. If you find limitations in the performance of your softboots with this set up then you can look at AT boots in the future. The majority of splitters ride softboots so they obviously work pretty well.

[Buell]

Buell ........ We could help in maximizing his efficiency, though.

Got something for me to try? That 168 Kessler is amazing.

IMHO going split means being safety conscious, so get all necessary bc equipment especially the avy airbags.

This is absolutely dead on (possibly literally). The split gear is nothing without avy education and a seriously clear head. Pay very close attention to the lessons about terrain management and heuristics. Always keep them in mind in the BC. No line is worth being dead.

The weight of avy bags is still a lot to carry uphill. Hopefully they will be getting lighter. What are the weights of the ones you have Bola?

[D.T.]

Venture = good, period! fit, finish and durability are all top notch, plus they are good people.

[Buell]

Splitboard thread on mountaineering boots in Spark bindings.

[Dan]

Apologies for the threadjack; I have a general question on AT boots with Bomber splitboard bindings.

I'm looking for some AT boots, and not having much luck finding anything used. I see that TheClymb currently has a <a href="http://www.theclymb.com/brand-event/105/Scarpa">sale</a> on Scarpas: the Hurricane, Men's Spirit 3 and Men's Spirit 4.

I know pretty much nothing about splitting, but would lean towards the Spirit 3 because it's lightest and cheapest. Will this boot work with Bomber splitboard bindings? Are Scarpas sized like Raichle/Deeluxe? (That is, if I buy the same size as my hardboots, is that likely to be the right size for me?)

Also, Bola, I was interested to see your comments on avy airbags. Is anyone else using them yet? Any recommendations on manufacturers? Does it make sense to discard an Avalung pack in favor of an avy airbag pack?

[Buell]

Apologies for the threadjack; I have a general question on AT boots with Bomber splitboard bindings.

I'm looking for some AT boots, and not having much luck finding anything used. I see that TheClymb currently has a sale on Scarpas: the Hurricane, Men's Spirit 3 and Men's Spirit 4.

I know pretty much nothing about splitting, but would lean towards the Spirit 3 because it's lightest and cheapest. Will this boot work with Bomber splitboard bindings? Are Scarpas sized like Raichle/Deeluxe? (That is, if I buy the same size as my hardboots, is that likely to be the right size for me?)

Yes they should work fine with Bomber bindings. I would go for the Spirit 3s, especially for a lightweight like you and me. Generally, the lighter and fewer buckles an AT boot has, the softer the flex.

I measure just over 26 mondo, wear 24m Deeluxe Track 700s and 25m Scarpas. I have a pretty narrow, low volume foot and the Scarpa F1s and F3s fit like a glove. I do not know about the Spirit 3s.

[Dan]

Yes they should work fine with Bomber bindings. I would go for the Spirit 3s, especially for a lightweight like you and me. Generally, the lighter and fewer buckles an AT boot has, the softer the flex.

I measure just over 26 mondo, wear 24m Deeluxe Track 700s and 25m Scarpas. I have a pretty narrow, low volume foot and the Scarpa F1s and F3s fit like a glove. I do not know about the Spirit 3s.

Thanks Buell! Pulling the trigger tonight.

Ha ha, actually I may be in danger of moving up to welterweight...better spend some time riding the trainer this winter. :-)

[Buell]

Nice Dan! Now just add the Dynafit adapters and the Dynafit toepieces on this Spark R&D page and you will have the set up for skinning!

Do you have a board?

That mountain in your backyard is too big for you to make welterweight. Get after it!

[Jon Dahl]

Does it make sense to discard an Avalung pack in favor of an avy airbag pack?

Had a look at the BCA air bag pack at the local snowmobile show. I am thinking of getting one. I especially like being able to recharge the cylinder at any scuba shop. I think it would be better to have the airbag over the avylung, simply because of the loss of motor skills in an emergency. A big handle to pull is easier to do than stuffing a mouthpiece in as the world collapses around you...

[vapor]

I own a snow pulse air bag. top quality and the cylinder is charged by air. To me if your caught in a slide these thing keep you on the surface in the 90 percent range so well worth it if your out there alot. Bad thing is i seemed to becone the test dummy on all the suspect slopes last year so make sure all your friends have them too;)

[wineguru]

I have a pair of Bates 9" Tora Bora Alpine Boot for my military service from past.

It has Slip Resistant Vibram Rubber Alpine Outsoles for those bails to hook.

For splitboarding, is this boots work? I am curious if the bails would be stayed in hooked when the board gets laid on edges as much as alpine carving because the outsoles are made out of rubber (although very stiff).

Anyone?

[Buell]

I have a pair of Bates 9" Tora Bora Alpine Boot for my military service from past.

It has Slip Resistant Vibram Rubber Alpine Outsoles for those bails to hook.

For splitboarding, is this boots work? I am curious if the bails would be stayed in hooked when the board gets laid on edges as much as alpine carving because the outsoles are made out of rubber (although very stiff).

Anyone?

No way. Those ledges are for crampons, not bail bindings.

[Dan]

Nice Dan! Now just add the Dynafit adapters and the Dynafit toepieces on this Spark R&D page and you will have the set up for skinning!

Do you have a board?

That mountain in your backyard is too big for you to make welterweight. Get after it!

I do have a board: I went to visit Bryan last spring, and when the dust settled, I had a NOS Voile and Bomber splitboard bindings. (There are too many toys there - I have a lot of trouble leaving his place without a new piece of gear :D)

I really don't know much about splitting - what are those Dynafit adapters and toepieces for? Do I need those in addition to the standard Bomber bails?

I did do an avy course last winter, and I'm planning to take it really slow this season. I really just want to get my feet wet, and I expect to spend 99.9% of my time on low-angle stuff. I'm chicken**** and highly motivated to not end up like this <a href="

">guy</a>. Even 5 minutes is too long to be buried.

Erin and I did some snowshoeing in White River Canyon last winter, and some in-bounds (or just barely out of bounds?) hiking at Timberline. Even without a split and skins, and hiking down more than riding down, I was having more fun than fighting the crowds at Meadows: I think the split will really take me to the next level - should be awesome.

Love your pics of the mountain; I'm definitely looking forward to doing some spring/summer riding up there in 2011! Erin and I went hiking around at Meadows in August, and I need to post some of those pics here -- it's totally wild to be up there with no snow on the ground.

Vapor and Jon D, thanks very much for chiming in on avy airbags. I'll see how this season goes, and if I'm putting in enough backcountry days for it to make sense, I'll think about picking one one up for the 2011/2012 season. They're expensive...but I would feel like a real idiot to be under 10 feet of avalanche debris because I couldn't bring myself to cough up $500 - $1,000.

[Buell]

Sweet. Sounds like you are set up. I am pretty cautious on over 32 degrees unless I know the snowpack is stable and consistent. That is plenty fun, especially in the heavier and often wind buffed west coast snow. The bc will change your impression of snowboarding for sure. At this point, even riding at Powder Mountain (fairly empty), inbounds powder just is not that exciting anymore. Carving days and climbing in the bc to ride powder or corn are what I am so excited about now. It is just a completely different experience.

Avy bags are not used by many bc riders. It is true though that survival rates of full burials are really low. Vapor is the first person I have heard of that rides with one (I am sure there are more). The other big issue besides the price is that they weight about 6 to 7 pounds. I think Vapor must be a climbing monster with his plate set up and his avy bag.

The Dyanfit toe pieces and adapters are for this and make skinning so much better. No, you do not need to use them, but I very strongly recommend them. Your bindings and their weight go in your pack for the skin up instead of on each foot. The connection between the boot and the board is solid, especially compared to the crude touring mode of the Voile slider plate and pin system.

[vapor]

I'm with buell on this one.Test the backcountry waters and if your into it seriously consider the dynafit toepiece.I think Sparks R&D sells them individually and they've come down in price this year as well.

[twelsch42]

I've finally got some gear going on! Thank you Craigslist.

As I'm checking out the voile hardware I'm wondering if anyone's run the CatekFR2's with them? It's going to be hard to give up my cant/lean. It appears that any softboot binding is going to be much wider than the 'plate' of the voile system. It doesn't seem like a particularity great idea, but it'd be nice to have a bit of guidance before I get crazy.

Thanks

[Buell]

I've finally got some gear going on! Thank you Craigslist.

As I'm checking out the voile hardware I'm wondering if anyone's run the CatekFR2's with them? It's going to be hard to give up my cant/lean. It appears that any softboot binding is going to be much wider than the 'plate' of the voile system. It doesn't seem like a particularity great idea, but it'd be nice to have a bit of guidance before I get crazy.

Thanks

Spark Blazes.

[twelsch42]

If I had $300 laying around, yes, sparks would be a no-brainer. That was not my question.

Thanks

[Buell]

If I had $300 laying around, yes, sparks would be a no-brainer. That was not my question.

Thanks

Alright then.

Splitboarding is expensive. (Edit: You have mentioned Ventures and Cateks so I figured Spark quality made sense).

Cateks are extremely heavy to carry uphill. They are also high off the board. When placed on Voile's pucks and sliders they will be that much taller.

Cant and lift will not work well touring.

The board binding interface is one of the most important parts of splitboarding. That goes for both touring and riding.