Gym workouts for carving

[Race_Carver]

I just had to throw this in too

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Olympic Weightlifting just isn't for the guys. I don't think many of us guys would be complaining if our wives/girlfriends looked like American lifter Ingrid Marcum. And yes, that really is over 200 lbs she put over her head in one movement...

[leeho730]

Not a big fan of muscle mass myself...

F#cks the knees long term...

I've seen quite a number of people having a knee prob when I was workin in the army... They were fit people, some full of muscle, but a bit heavier than average.

And snowboarding is definitely about endurance... Think abou it, you ride it for several hours at a time...

It's not about ovreall muscle mass but muscle in the right place, I believe...

And I want to snowboard well until late sixties... So I need to preserve my knees!

So no muscle mass for me.

[pow4ever]

I run lots true but I need to get back in the gym and bulk back up a bit. Getting too skinny for my other sports (kendo, snowboarding, judo).

Hey!! Fellow kendo practitioner.

sparring in 90+ degree summer heat in full bogu is a great work out.

FWIW: I did lots of leg work out prior to last season. squat/dead lift and what not. IMHO it didn't have as a dramtic effect as I would have hope for. First couple days of the season are still rough.

As long as you are not too terribly out of shape; just by snowboard more will get you in carving shape.

Don't know why so many ppl are against gym... They do have a purpose.

When it's nice out; go run/swim/surf/bike/SUP/play or whatever you are into.

When it rain or crappy out; gym still allow me to be active. Resistence training does have it's place. I fall a LOT as a beginner carver and am glad to have some meat/musle to absorb part of the impact.

Olympic lift is great:

Shane Hamman weight in 350lb but boasts a vertical leap of 36" where most NBA player top out at 34". He is 5'9" and can dunk a basketball.

To quote Alwyn Cosgrove

"95% of the benefits of olympic lifts come from the pull phase. which is the simple part of the movement"

"almost all of the technical diffculties occur during the catch phase"

"most men need to worry about the catch only only if they are interested in competing in the sports"

He then break out the pull to 2 mini routine:

Routine 1:

High Pull

Front Squat

Routine 2:

Snatch grip jump shrug

Push press

which the average gym rat should be able to perform properly.

--

David

[AMK]

Race Carver,

I can't disagreed with you but I'm more into what leeho730 thinks.

Not anymore but Poland use to be one of the best in weight lifting.

The one guy witch I met few years ago today is like 44 y.o. and its not thing what wouldn't hurt him. 44 man its young. He said that his team mates are more or less in the same place ( keens and back problem)

Yes, you can't really run well with that much muscles on you, you know what I mean but if we are talking about short distance, they can run and run fast.

But look at them after they done. They look like they just run 20 times longer distance ( not saying all of them). My point is I think they are more short distance runners.

I'm new to running, so I know a little. But I did train in the past ( MTB not running).

Today I'm all about shape and good life style, train/eat/rest/sleep/work/some life;). I got into running/swimming and biking again. I workout between all that so I'm in shape but I can do better and get better.

But for me its life style and being in shape what makes me feel good.

I'm fine with gym, but I workout at home. Have a bit of space for it.

What I'm saying is that I'm not into body building or weightlifting. Not a bit. Cool if someone likes it, to the limit. I saw few "Hawk" at my old gym

Like leeho730 I would like to be active till to my late years, without pain and to many problems. :)

Ingrid Marcum and 200 lbs - woooow. Really, woooow. But I will stay with my 25. ;)

[Race_Carver]

Race Carver,

I can't disagreed with you but I'm more into what leeho730 thinks.

Not anymore but Poland use to be one of the best in weight lifting.

The one guy witch I met few years ago today is like 44 y.o. and its not thing what wouldn't hurt him. 44 man its young. He said that his team mates are more or less in the same place ( keens and back problem)

Yes, you can't really run well with that much muscles on you, you know what I mean but if we are talking about short distance, they can run and run fast.

But look at them after they done. They look like they just run 20 times longer distance ( not saying all of them). My point is I think they are more short distance runners.

I'm new to running, so I know a little. But I did train in the past ( MTB not running).

Today I'm all about shape and good life style, train/eat/rest/sleep/work/some life;). I got into running/swimming and biking again. I workout between all that so I'm in shape but I can do better and get better.

But for me its life style and being in shape what makes me feel good.

I'm fine with gym, but I workout at home. Have a bit of space for it.

What I'm saying is that I'm not into body building or weightlifting. Not a bit. Cool if someone likes it, to the limit. I saw few "Hawk" at my old gym

Like leeho730 I would like to be active till to my late years, without pain and to many problems. :)

Ingrid Marcum and 200 lbs - woooow. Really, woooow. But I will stay with my 25. ;)

Well, look at how many ski racers, and competitive snowboarders, both racers and freestylers have many, many more problems than just worn knees. If you look at the statistics, competitive weightlifters and powerlifters have far, far fewer injuries than people in snowsports. I don't think I know a racer who hasn't had multiple ligament tears and multiple broken bones. They are on a first name basis with their ortho doctors. I don't know any world class competitive ski racers or snowboarders in their mid 40's, but many of the world records in powerlifting are held by men in their 40's. People compete in weightlifting regionally well into their 70's.

As far as snowboarding being an endurance sport sport I have to disagree. An endurance sport is like running a marathon when you don't stop for 26 miles (or whatever they run). Cross country skiing is an endurance type of sport.

Downhill skiing and snowboarding is a power sport. You ride the lift up, make fast, explosive turns down the hill maybe for 1 or 2 minutes, then rest while you are riding the lift back up. Sure, you might make multiple cycles of this over the course of a day, buy you are not riding constantly all day. That is the definition of a power sport. Cycles of fast movements followed by periods of rest.

Every national ski and snowboard team trains during the off season for power and balance. They do olympic lifting, sprinting, and balance work. They do very little long distance, endurance type of work.

Of course, we need to separate the needs of competitive snowboarders and recreational riders. If you approach the sport purely from a recreational perspective, then yes, any type of dryland training will be better than being a couch potato all summer.

Considering how non active the average person is now, everybody on this thread should feel good about themselves for both snowboarding and doing some type of off season training!:)

[Race_Carver]

To quote Alwyn Cosgrove

"95% of the benefits of olympic lifts come from the pull phase. which is the simple part of the movement"

"almost all of the technical diffculties occur during the catch phase"

David

Wow, that is interesting.

Most of the well known U.S. Weightlifting coaches I have interacted with, such as Glenn Pendlay, Sean Waxman, John Broz, and Don McCulay think the most difficult part of the lift to master is the explosive 2nd pull, and it is nearly impossible to break it down into a simple movement and get the same carry over effect. There is a growing feeling among top U.S. coaches that Americans fail to medal in the sport now because they spend too much time training the lifts in phases instead of just doing the complete lift.

Same idea that if you want to be a great snowboarder, then you need to get out on the snow and snowboard.

[Seraph]

Well, look at how many ski racers, and competitive snowboarders, both racers and freestylers have many, many more problems than just worn knees. If you look at the statistics, competitive weightlifters and powerlifters have far, far fewer injuries than people in snowsports. I don't think I know a racer who hasn't had multiple ligament tears and multiple broken bones. They are on a first name basis with their ortho doctors. I don't know any world class competitive ski racers or snowboarders in their mid 40's, but many of the world records in powerlifting are held by men in their 40's. People compete in weightlifting regionally well into their 70's.

Last time I check the weightlifters and powerlifters weren't hurling themselves down a mountain while doing their movements.

Downhill skiing and snowboarding is a power sport. You ride the lift up, make fast, explosive turns down the hill maybe for 1 or 2 minutes, then rest while you are riding the lift back up. Sure, you might make multiple cycles of this over the course of a day, buy you are not riding constantly all day. That is the definition of a power sport. Cycles of fast movements followed by periods of rest.

Yes and no. Yes, the 1 to 2 minutes on/ recover defines what is typically an anaerobic based situation, but how many are really taking it to that level and digging that deep into their system to make it a true anaerobic situation. Not many, I'm guessing. For the average non-competitive athlete it is more like within that 2 minute section there is maybe 30 seconds of true anaerobic work. If your run lasts beyond 2 minutes you'll probably benefit from some type of endurance training that is anaerobic threshold based like running, cycling, inline skating. Spending the day on the mountain making multiple runs will benefit from short to medium distance endurance training.

Every national ski and snowboard team trains during the off season for power and balance. They do olympic lifting, sprinting, and balance work. They do very little long distance, endurance type of work.

I was never on a national ski or snowboard team, but did ski competitively and speedskated at both long track sprint and distance events. I have trained with the national and world cup teams for both long track and short track both on ice and off, and I assure you there is a lot of endurance training work going on, alot of running, alot of cycling. They just don't necessarily do it as their focus, and they don't do it all season long, they cycle their training with periods that focus on different elements such as alactic power, lactic power training, muscular, etc.

Of course, we need to separate the needs of competitive snowboarders and recreational riders. If you approach the sport purely from a recreational perspective, then yes, any type of dryland training will be better than being a couch potato all summer.

Considering how non active the average person is now, everybody on this thread should feel good about themselves for both snowboarding and doing some type of off season training!:)

I think this is the heart of the matter. Competitive athletes train for basically three things, to have the fitness to carry them through their workouts, recovery, and most importantly for the competitive event. All that explosive training that skiers, snowboards, etc. do is for the 1 to 2 minutes that they are fighting for that first place spot. On race day, they are warming up, waiting, competing, lather rinse repeat.

If you are doing something to get yourself ready to make it through the day on the mountain, have fun doing it, and reducing your potential for injury and next day soreness, you are on the right track.

Since I put my .02 cents in, I will add what I am currently doing and why. Over the spring and summer I was doing a lot of cycling (road and mountain bike) - 5 days a week, some core - 3x per week, and some balance with strength building (ie squats on stability board type of stuff) - 3x per week. I was riding mostly to drop weight and improve my endurance, but I wasn't burning enough calories in an efficient manner to benefit from any weight loss. I work some long work days and with family stuff finding an 1 1/2 hours to fit a workout in can be tough. So I switched over from cycling to running for an hour 4x to 5x per week, some of it barefoot, and that has worked. I also switched up some of my nutritional habits and started wearing a body bugg so i can keep a close eye on whether I am burning enough calories on a daily basis. One other benefit of running over cycling is that running lengthens your achilles, cycling shortens it. I've learned from past experience that a tight achilles tendon is not beneficial for snowboarding.

[AMK]

Race Carver,

I believe that most of ski racers and competitive snowboarders get injured. I wouldn't compared to other sports like weight lifting.

They all different but they all required training.

Yes, worn knees are part of pro sport or just athletic life style. Whatever you do in sport you can get injured. We all know that. You can get killed on your training (Vancouver 2010).

About olympic lifting, I'm not expert so I just speak my mind, I was sure as far as I was watching Lindsey Van training it's more like strength training.

Weightlifting is part of it but it's nothing like olympic lifting ( or its just matter of word). I can't see Lindsay Van having similar training like Ingrid Marcum,

( I'm not saying its what you said). I just believe they have very different approach to lifting.

Its very different subject if you like or not weightlifting.

But have to say in my mind I have not so sweet look at it (Beijing 2008)

(Sorry, I know its extreme).

And yes you wright, anyone who does sport all year round and its not

regular guest on the couch watching TV every night should be happy and proud. :)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well you need balance in all things. If you're riding a big hill you are going for a lot longer than a minute or two. Some cardio fitness is warranted, so get that any way you can: run, bike, swim, whatever floats your boat. But gym time helps even more.

Certainly training for hypertrophy (what most people think of as "weightlifting", ie bodybuilding) is counter-productive for snowboarding. Training for power lifting (squat, dead, bench-press) is better but still not ideal as those guys don't lift in a way which translates well to what we do.

For what I do, which as I said before includes judo and kendo that require much more explosive movement than even snowboarding, olympic style lifts are pretty good. Using a lighter weight and accelerating it hard using a whole body movement like the snatch trains good explosive leg strength and core strength. I don't think your knees are in much danger from the snatch but you do have to watch your back. Correct form is good.

I think for snowboarding one thing that is required is muscular endurance in the legs, and that's where bodyweight exercises like hindu squats (repetitive heels up squats) and wall sits are great. If you can do a 5 minute wall sit you are good to go for carving, I think. Most people crap out after less than a minute first time, though.

Developing good core strength is also good. My absolute favourite exercise is the Turkish get-up, which is a grappler's drill. I'm not sure there's a muscle it doesn't work, and you use a fairly light weight without any sudden movement so it's very safe. Simply hold a dumbell straight up over your head. Lie down on the floor while keeping the arm with the dumbell vertical. Get back up again. Repeat 3 times each arm for one set. Start light, controlling that weight and getting back up again is tough!

[Pat Donnelly]

Ease the pain BEFORE it sets in. . . http://www.sportlegs.com/about/welcome.asp

Crunch and burn all want, this stuff works providing you ingest before you ride. Little benefit after the burn has started.

[murphy12]

Cycling

Wall-sits -10min minimum.

Hindu squats:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPSVpo4mzNI

good beer

for starters

[Seraph]

Wall-sits -10min minimum.

Video or it never happened.

[Maciek_B]

Pilates works for me

[Neil Gendzwill]

Video or it never happened.

Yeah, that's some serious wall-sit time.

[ursle]

Who's gym? "jim"

My idea of summer carving, good for core strength and balance, free$,

and fun, I'll get on a bike for conditioning, this give me flexibility.

The court was wet:)

[Seraph]

Push forward not backwards. :)

[ursle]

Push forward not back wards. :)

When I'm going back wards (70% of the time) I push forward, vice-versa going forward:)

Anyway, even thou it doesn't look it, I'm torquing my ankles, knees and hips all the time,

as I spend an hour and a half or two hours skating per session, most of it in a squat,

I find skating to be an excellent workout.

[Steph]

Been doing the INSANITY workouts (same as Angie mentioned earlier), plus I do yoga for flexibility. My stamina has increased tenfold. Can't wait to get on snow this year.

[Seraph]

When I'm going back wards (70% of the time) I push forward, vice-versa going forward:)

Anyway, even thou it doesn't look it, I'm torquing my ankles, knees and hips all the time,

as I spend an hour and a half or two hours skating per session, most of it in a squat,

I find skating to be an excellent workout.

Ursle, I'm referring to the placement of your left foot at the end of that push on the crossover. You are pointing your toe downward and the left foot is behind the right at the end of the push. It would look correct if your left foot and right were on the same plane and instead of toe pointing down, and it was toe pointing up (i.e., your pushing through your heels not your toes.) It should feel like your are making the wheels spin forward (i.e. on your left foot wheels spinning clockwise, right foot wheels spinning counter-clockwise). Going forward or backward shouldn't matter, you would just reverse the acceleration to which ever way your forward momentum is

headed. Look at the second skaters foot position. Also notice where the hips are in the turn compared to the supporting leg.

[ursle]

Ursle, I'm referring to the placement of your left foot at the end of that push on the crossover. You are pointing your toe downward and the left foot is behind the right at the end of the push. It would look correct if your left foot and right were on the same plane and instead of toe pointing down, and it was toe pointing up (i.e., your pushing through your heels not your toes.) It should feel like your are making the wheels spin forward (i.e. on your left foot wheels spinning clockwise, right foot wheels spinning counter-clockwise). Going forward or backward shouldn't matter, you would just reverse the acceleration to which ever way your forward momentum is

headed. Look at the second skaters foot position. Also notice where the hips are in the turn compared to the supporting leg.

This is rather like trying to showing me how to carve ice in softboots.

Show me what you mean in roller skates, different ball game.

Please, no Lycra.

BTW, I understand perfectly what you're saying, I'm saying that on rollerskates, your ankle has to take the force coming down your leg and direct it to your foot that's sitting flat on the ground, unlike inlines where the foot is "in line" with the body.

Different mechanics, roller skates require the knee to be more out over the skate at push off, less trauma to the ankle. inlines, the knee is inside, "in line" with the body.

[wannabealpiner]

The Olympic lifts and any eccentric focused squatting would be great for alpine. Also some higher rep wave squats might be good. Strong legs and low center of gravity are advantages.

[WavesWithin]

I lost 50 pounds doing P90X and had one of my best seasons ever. I'm 40 and I feel like I'm 25 again. Core strength is critical, especially if you are prone to back problems. You put in the dvd and do the workout. It's different every day.

[Loc]

I lost 50 pounds doing P90X and had one of my best seasons ever. I'm 40 and I feel like I'm 25 again. Core strength is critical, especially if you are prone to back problems. You put in the dvd and do the workout. It's different every day.

Congrats on the weight loss and lifestyle change. I tried P90x for two weeks and it didn't click for me. I went back to the old college routine of lifting weights and found it much more to my liking. I guess as long as you're active in some way it's a win for your health :)

[big mario]

I spent the summer doing heavy squats and deadlifts without a belt, and barefoot (home gym) as well as other compound moves in an "unbraced" manner. I started my season on saturday, rode sunday as well and have not felt any of my usual soreness, and came out of the gate pretty hard.

mario

[Bobby Buggs]

Added a new one yesterday, sets of 30 squats on the flat side of a Bosu ball

Hey Waves, I have the P90, its a ass kick for sure, did you find you were able to keep up with the vid at first and wicked sore from it??