cycling performance help

[canuckcarver]

so if seems ive a bit of a wall, i ride about 200-250 km a week, and i cant seem to get a higher avg speed than 30km/hr over mixed terrain. any tips to get an avg of close to 40km/hr. and would focusing on strength training be a priority? i think i spin high enough i avg 90-95 over every ride i do.

also... what are you using for recovery?? im on this stuff from scivision i think .. its called Xtend . its all amino acids seems ok wondering what else is good.

[davekempmeister]

Always the same bike?

[RobertAlexander]

30 km ave speed sounds like your doing great, 40km sounds top level, I would suggest tri bars if your bike is willing to accept this. tri bars need alot of time to get used to, a week or so and be careful at first, after two weeks you will be comfortable. Hang in there, the benefits are there if your willing to put in the time. It might take a full season to really feel the benefits. Once your there, you will want more, and there is no going back. I will not ride without them. I get on them and take off and nobody even tries to follow. I also like the ones that the arm pads flip up when not using them, there out of the way, and for hill climbs they make nice hand holds so you can get that extra in of set back comfort,manf is profile designs. good luck

[Seraph]

Boy, there is alot of stuff you could be doing, but I'm not quite sure what your training plan is and the type of environment your riding (flats, rolling terrain, etc). Are you doing any extended interval work above your anaerobic threshold? Are you using a power meter and training by wattage? If you want to go faster you need to build into your workout some periods of work where you are going harder than normal, recovering at a slower than normal pace, then going harder than normal, lather rinse repeat. Slowly build that up over time. You can base your effort on your perceived exertion, but if you have a power meter to measure your wattage and record it, and preferably a heart rate monitor too to measure your recovery between intervals, your better off because you can see your improvements over time. There are plenty of sites with suggested interval programs that you can google. Just don't overdo it, less is more. One or two interval sessions a week with enough post ride recovery is plenty.

Also 30km is approx 18mph and 40km is approx 24mph, that's a big jump in speed at least over an extended distance. One of the metrics for a cyclist who wants to imorove his time trialing is being able to do a flat 40km time trial under an hour.

[canuckcarver]

first , yes on the same bike its nothing special only a carbon fork everything else is aluminum, triple upfront which i really need to change....

as for the time trial bars i got a set with the pads there ok , take some getting use to... love them on windy days. ill look into the ones with the flip up pads sounds pretty cool. my only problem with the TT bars is it put me in an uncomfortable seated position.

and finally , I wish i had a power meter!! there big dollars that should go to a better bike. i ride on hilly terrain,well, as hilly as ontario gets anyway and try to stay on my higher gears . ive heard its an easier way to work on anarobic side of things. ill look into that interval training thanks !

[Neil Gendzwill]

Not a biker but from a runner's perspective if you are always going hard that's not good. You want to do most of your training at around 75% of max HR and then add days where you are doing intervals or tempos or other speed work. I expect it's similar for cycling. I know before I bought a heart rate monitor I was always tending to go too hard and it was holding back my progress. From an aerobic systems development point of view there are certain zones that are helpful for training and others that are "no mans land". You can check out some of the theory behind running pace training here.

[davekempmeister]

If you are thinking about changing your triple, maybe consider longer crank arms. Sort of like lengthening one's stride to increase speed instead of just walking faster. Careful when pedaling through a turn with new, longer crank arms. I put some 180's on a bike that originally had 175's and for sure I'm now quicker on that bike than before. No computer data but I am certain of it. Suits my diesel engine style.

Best of luck. Let us know if you get faster and what you did to accomplish it. I'd like to know how to get faster myself.

[Arje_Vandemeer]

If your averaging 30km/hr on hilly terrain as a recreational racer that is actually pretty good it seems to me. Now you could go all out with amino acid fortifications and whatnot, but you would have to ask yourself: "Will I be enjoying it?". I think enjoyment is really one of the keys to health and fitness, otherwise it becomes a type of torture.

As for coming down after an workout session, I always find what works for me is to come down naturally...the body has it's own pace, and doesn't really need rushing. I DO lightly massage my muscles after a workout, that's about it...I just try to relax. A cold dip in the river feels great to me!!

[Gtanner]

Couple of things:

Shorter crank arm with a larger cassette on the rear will have you spin more efficiently and not have to worrry about your knees hitting your stomach once you are in the aero position.

As for comfort, pick up a Fast-Forward seat post (made by Profile design). Works to get you into a steeper tube angle and you will use your hamstrings more as you pedal...not only helps you run off the bike, but engages another set of strong leg muscles.

Swap out the triple for a double absolutely.

Intervals are key, and some TT's are good. Not just the 40k ones, do a few red-liners (liek 10-15k) where you are going all out, lungs burning, drooling, snot flying, etc. Those can add more value that pounding out the same 50k loop every few days.

Good luck,

Gord

[canuckcarver]

If you are thinking about changing your triple, maybe consider longer crank arms. Sort of like lengthening one's stride to increase speed instead of just walking faster. Careful when pedaling through a turn with new, longer crank arms. I put some 180's on a bike that originally had 175's and for sure I'm now quicker on that bike than before. No computer data but I am certain of it. Suits my diesel engine style.

Best of luck. Let us know if you get faster and what you did to accomplish it. I'd like to know how to get faster myself.

i was concidering that. but i was reading up on that appearently it affects how fast you can pedal. longer the stroke less rpm and the longer your in the peadal stroke the more you use up your reserves. i dont know if im actually at a point where i need to worry about such finite things but i am only 5'7 with a small inseem i think im more suited to higher cadence riding.

[canuckcarver]

If your averaging 30km/hr on hilly terrain as a recreational racer that is actually pretty good it seems to me. Now you could go all out with amino acid fortifications and whatnot, but you would have to ask yourself: "Will I be enjoying it?". I think enjoyment is really one of the keys to health and fitness, otherwise it becomes a type of torture.

As for coming down after an workout session, I always find what works for me is to come down naturally...the body has it's own pace, and doesn't really need rushing. I DO lightly massage my muscles after a workout, that's about it...I just try to relax. A cold dip in the river feels great to me!!

it does feel like torture sometimes , but i still enjoy it regarless. maybe recovery is more a conditioning thing than a dietary thing and i just have to be patient, but i d like to be able to do a back to back century

[vapor]

Riding in a group will get your overall fitness up.I view cycling as a team /social sport,you can do it alone but when you want to push it having someone else along with similar goals makes it so much easier.

Use to live in Toronto and can remember the group rides that had 50+ out training in feb .

Ask some of the local shops what cycling clubs in your area are and join one.

[trailertrash]

I get on them and take off and nobody even tries to follow.

Nobody tries to follow you because aero bars are inherently dangerous in a group ride. It has nothing to do with your speed.

Canuk,

How many years have you been riding at the pace you are "stuck" at?

There are a few folks recomending triathlon type of solutions. Think about going to a reputable shop and get your bike fitted to you. Make sure they do it on a computrainer. If you aren't going to do triathlons you probably don't want those solutions.

How often per week are you riding? More than once a day? If not (in my opinion) you are wasting money on "recovery" supplements. Take a cold shower and drink a class of chocolate milk for recovery.

Read the cycling bible by Friel.

[canuckcarver]

Riding in a group will get your overall fitness up.I view cycling as a team /social sport,you can do it alone but when you want to push it having someone else along with similar goals makes it so much easier.

Use to live in Toronto and can remember the group rides that had 50+ out training in feb .

Ask some of the local shops what cycling clubs in your area are and join one.

your thinking of the toronto donut ride from scarbourough to oak ridges, i see them when im out on a ride. i cant ever seem to time it right, they pass with in a few km of my house. some pretty fast riders in there.. i do work weekends more often then not unfortunity.

Nobody tries to follow you because aero bars are inherently dangerous in a group ride. It has nothing to do with your speed.

Canuk,

How many years have you been riding at the pace you are "stuck" at?

There are a few folks recomending triathlon type of solutions. Think about going to a reputable shop and get your bike fitted to you. Make sure they do it on a computrainer. If you aren't going to do triathlons you probably don't want those solutions.

How often per week are you riding? More than once a day? If not (in my opinion) you are wasting money on "recovery" supplements. Take a cold shower and drink a class of chocolate milk for recovery.

Read the cycling bible by Friel.

id say this year has been a bit of a stall year. no progress. im not really worried about bike fit, i was on my bike for 4 hrs sunday , no pain anywhere, well... the saddle does begin to get a bit tender.

id say i ride at least 4 days a week, this was a good week for me. i just finished 402 km. so im out of comission for a couple i think fatigue is setting in.

oh and i did try a time trial on sunday sort of i had to modify the time by a couple of minutes for traffic lights and stop signs, i did 40 km in one hour 10 min. so i know have a baseline to go from i guess.

lol i just picked up that book on the weekend actually. i took a quick read through it, it seems kinda complicated.

[Seraph]

lol i just picked up that book on the weekend actually. i took a quick read through it, it seems kinda complicated.

The devils in the details!

[Arje_Vandemeer]

You can also spice up your riding routine by trying some triathalons. Since you obviously do a LOT of biking! 400+ km in one week is a lot. For beginning triathalons, it doesn't matter about your swimming or running prowess...your main purpose is to have fun and spice up your sporting. There will ALWAYS be triathletes out there who do NOTHING but live, eat and sleep triathalons and they will always be the one's out in front, so you don't even have to worry about beating them. It's also a great way to get into super shape in the process of training. I am sure in Ontario there are a many triathalons in the summer to try. Then if you like it and hang in there, you'll get better.

[Mr. T]

Check out "The Cyclist's Training Bible" By Joe Friel, available from Velopress.

[canuckcarver]

there are a few iron man events around but im not sure how far they swim but im sure id need a looooooong time to get there. its been years since ive gone swimming, i view the ironman events as something that id have to obsess over, just seems to require more training than im willing to commit to. hope that makes sence... it is inspiring to see 50 and 60 year olds do that. talk about motivational. for some reason i think its 20km swim, and run and a 40km ride???.. im basing that on a foggy memory of tv broadcasts gone by.

[canuckcarver]

The devils in the details!

ya thats what i was thinking , i just didnt want to admit to it.

[Gtanner]

there are a few iron man events around but im not sure how far they swim but im sure id need a looooooong time to get there. its been years since ive gone swimming, i view the ironman events as something that id have to obsess over, just seems to require more training than im willing to commit to. hope that makes sence... it is inspiring to see 50 and 60 year olds do that. talk about motivational. for some reason i think its 20km swim, and run and a 40km ride???.. im basing that on a foggy memory of tv broadcasts gone by.

There is only one full "Ironman" event in Canada and it's in Penticton, BC every August. It's a 3.8km swim, 180 km bike, 42.2 km run. There are a few other ironman-distance events in Canada, but that is the only Ironman-branded event.

There are a number of different triathlon events though. Lots of half-ironman events around (called a half or a 70.3) including a two pretty big ones in Peterborough and Muskoka. After that there are the Olympic or Standard distance triathlons ; 1500m swim, 40k bike, 10k run, and a sprint distance is 750m swim, 20k bike, 5k run. Sprints can be done either in a pool or open water.

Lots of different levels and distances to choose from. I've been doing triathlons for a few years and Olympic distance is where I focus my time. Personally, I would like to enjoy and focus on the shorter events, tune up my race strategies and then look at the longer races once I feel like I'm dialed in. I am very against those folks that choose an ironman as their first triathlon...it happens, but I can't see how it would be an enjoyable experience... ok ranting a bit here.

Anyway, change it up, do some intervals and I can't say enough about shorter TT's...lung-burning, balls-out riding is lots of fun.

[Kent]

I rode 570 miles last week....while working 50 hours. But, that wasn't in an effort to get "faster", it was training for some upcoming long races.

As mentioned, the ONLY way to get faster is to RIDE FASTER. The only way to ride faster is through intervals. Typically, 6 reps x 4 mins is the gold standard. If you're a power junkie, you'll do these reps at 125% of your FTP (one hour power).

Most performance cyclists chart their power using 10 seconds (sprint), 1 min (breakaway), 5 min (leadout), 20 mins and 60 mins. You can then plot out your power on a graph (see llink below) and determine your gaps.

Either way, this article is your best start:

http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/supply/47-base-a-new-definition

Some cyclist are VERY analytical about their training time while some simply ride with their buddies and try to kick their ass. Both ways are effective. Get to faster...ride faster.

As for recovery, a typical performance program has different types of rides, one being a recovery ride. If you're looking for something illegal, use HGH. If you're looking for something legal...eat a healty diet. How much and what you eat for recovery is largely dependent on what your ate during your ride and how hard an effort you put forth.

Yes..I'm a USA Cycling Coach too. ;o)

K

[canuckcarver]

ok well whats good for food during a ride, i currently just use hammer gel and water. maybe the odd power bar. im also trying to drop a few pounds, so im trying to run a bit of deficit.

570 miles? thats nuts!

Typically, 6 reps x 4 mins is the gold standard. If you're a power junkie, you'll do these reps at 125% of your FTP (one hour power).

what do you mean by that.?

6 reps of weight training? x 4min?.. ill assume FTP is a your max?

[vapor]

Kent is talking about your average wattage you would put out in one hour. Times that by 125% and do 6 reps at 4 min each. Intervals are a bitch but they make you faster.

[Kent]

ok well whats good for food during a ride, i currently just use hammer gel and water. maybe the odd power bar. im also trying to drop a few pounds, so im trying to run a bit of deficit.

570 miles? thats nuts!

Typically, 6 reps x 4 mins is the gold standard. If you're a power junkie, you'll do these reps at 125% of your FTP (one hour power).

what do you mean by that.?

6 reps of weight training? x 4min?.. ill assume FTP is a your max?

I'm racing Lance this weekend....although my shoulder is broken and uncertain if it will hold up. We'll see.

For food..you basically need calories, fluid and salt when you're riding over roughly 90 mins "pretty hard". Hammer makes good stuff if you can handle the taste.

If dropping a few pounds, it really comes down to diet....not workouts. Bums me out too as I workout quite a bit. MUCH easier to curb the diet down 500 or so calories than run/bike for an hour. Touchy subject with most people.

Vapor already covered the internals. You don't need a power meter, just go "balls out" for 4 mins, rest for 4 mins repeat. It would be nice to have some sort of measurement (heart rate monitor, etc) to understand your effort....but a stopwatch is the only required equipment.

Have fun!