A dare....

[Alaskan Rover]

I've taken one of those dares that usually arise after considerable ingestion of alcoholic beverage. No money involved, just ego.

The Dare: Take my normal snowboard, in my case a wide K2 Fatbob 162, and without modification, put some wider longboard-like trucks on it and use it all summer long as a longboarder, and at least one medium-slope downhill. Okay...no problem SO FAR....pretty easy to do (except for the blasted downhill part!). But here's the catch: take the trucks back off next winter and go back to using it on the slopes.

Because I don't want to kill my beloved K2 fatBob...it's innocent!! (I was originally thinking about using it, but while doing its post-season prep...I noticed it STILL has LOADS of camber!!), I am allowed to use a used FatBob of same approximate age (approximately seventeen years old now) that I have found for sale.

Two things immediately come up:

1) Because no modifications are allowed and therefore no wheel cut-outs are allowed like on a normal longboard, I would probably need go with a truck-riser plate to increase the distance between the wheels and the snowboard bottom, so I would be able to at least do SOME carving.

2) How to make sure that the plugs of Ptex filling the holes made by the trucks DON'T just pop-out after the first few turns on snow. I have filled lots of gouges and canyons on a board, but NEVER a through-hole!!! I'm thinking of screwing in some sort of plastic threaded plug and then Ptexing on top of that, as normal. The base is Electra 4000 if I remember correctly.

Any ideas?

[KingCrimson]

Snowboards are way too soft unless you cut them up and get a shorter wheelbase. They are also way too wide and you get too much leverage over the trucks.

I have a dare.. Cut up the Fatbob and make a longboard..and get yourself something decent and younger than me for the snow.

[Alaskan Rover]

Snowboards are way too soft unless you cut them up and get a shorter wheelbase. They are also way too wide and you get too much leverage over the trucks.

I have a dare.. Cut up the Fatbob and make a longboard..and get yourself something decent and younger than me for the snow.

Yeah...I was thinking about the flexibility issue. No mods also means that I wouldn't be able to attach an stiffening plate on the bottom of the board. So, using my own board resting on blocks of wood about the same footprint as trucks, I have been playing around with where to put the trucks to give enough stiffness. For the 162, I've noticed about 16-18 inches from each tip is about right. Can't do much about the width. That's why I'm thinking those wide long-board trucks. Won't be able determine over-leverage issues until I actually install the trucks.

Already accepted the dare, so can't back out now. I don't really care about impending core-damage, as I won't be using my own fatbob.

[KingCrimson]

Yeah...I was thinking about the flexibility issue. No mods also means that I wouldn't be able to attach an stiffening plate on the bottom of the board. So, using my own board resting on blocks of wood about the same footprint as trucks, I have been playing around with where to put the trucks to give enough stiffness. For the 162, I've noticed about 16-18 inches from each tip is about right. Can't do much about the width. That's why I'm thinking those wide long-board trucks. Won't be able determine over-leverage issues until I actually install the trucks.

Already accepted the dare, so can't back out now. I don't really care about impending core-damage, as I won't be using my own fatbob.

Was it a double dog dare? I hope he doesn't sue you if you don't follow through.

You're gonna have like 46cms hanging over the end of the trucks, and a wheelbase of 70cm. The overhang isn't a big deal, but the ~28" WB is troubling.

Also, since you have the width, you're gonna need a ton of spacers..Which will give you more leverage, and make it even turnier and less stable.

[Alaskan Rover]

The K2 is a fairly stiff board (not ultra-stiff, but 'goodly' stiff for a freeride board), so I can probably go with a longer wheelbase...was just basing that on what felt right standing on two sets of wooden blocks. It didn't have too much hog, even at longer wheelbases...but I certainly wouldn't be able to get the wheelbase nor stiffness of a true longboard.

Yes, the addition of riser-plates to get the wheels away from the board bottom will add even more lever-arm to the wheel trucks...but not much I can do about that. The only thing that scares me is not being able to get a good enough carve in to slow-down during the downhill portion...looks like I'm going to be doing a lot of bailing!!

Nah...I'll have to carry out the dare...I've got lots of knee pads, elbow pads, etc!!!!

Like Robert Service said in Cremation of Sam McGee: http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/2640/?letter=C&spage=26

"A pal's last need is a thing to need..."

[bobdea]

The K2 is a fairly stiff board (not ultra-stiff, but 'goodly' stiff for a freeride board), so I can probably go with a longer wheelbase..."

no it's not, particularly when you cut off a few cm off the sides

Yes, the addition of riser-plates to get the wheels away from the board bottom will add even more lever-arm to the wheel trucks...but not much I can do about that.

I'd still be worried about the stiffness more so than risers, can alway make cutouts for the wheels.

but not much I can do about that. The only thing that scares me is not being able to get a good enough carve in to slow-down during the downhill portion...looks like I'm going to be doing a lot of bailing!!

slide? turn more? learn to skate? not bomb something you can't handle?

final question, why do you like a fat bob so much? although they were some of the first wide boards they were completely eclipsed by 1998 by many other wide boards that did not feel like you were riding a door.

[tex1230]

I double dog dare you all to click here: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=8918

[Alaskan Rover]

no it's not, particularly when you cut off a few cm off the sides

I'd still be worried about the stiffness more so than risers, can alway make cutouts for the wheels.

final question, why do you like a fat bob so much? although they were some of the first wide boards they were completely eclipsed by 1998 by many other wide boards that did not feel like you were riding a door.

well, part of the deal is that I can make no modifications to the board, and that I must be able to ride same board the next season on snow...so that means no cut-outs. I know how to skate, but I am certainly no longboarding expert. I'm very quick when it comes to bailing...I guess from skim-boarding, so I'm not worried. Can't see doing much sliding in a set-up like that.

As to "Bob the Fatbob", I just like the board. Always have. I've been on quicker boards with more pop, like the Option Supercharger 163, but the Fatbob is actually a suprisingly good ride for such a wide board. It is 325mm at both ends and 275mm at the waist. It is fairly light for such a board (the newest Fatbobs are even lighter with new core material....yes, they have brought them back into production, just no longer made on Vashon Island, Wa), has suprisingly good pop for it's size; is quick turn to turn; and is well-built. It in no way has EVER felt like riding a door. And being nearly 17 years old, and after 14 years of hard-riding by myself...it still has tons of camber left...hasn't really flattened out that much art all. Look it up....it comes with totally great reviews. Have you ever tried one?

If you've only tried the old ones...try a new 2010 one, they've been totally re-engineered.

I've tried the Salomon W4, with all its internal bells and whistles (the fatbob has torsion forks TOO, BTW), and found it to be squirrelly as hell. I don't really want a board that initiates it's OWN turns...lol.

I thinks it's just a preference. It's like the 40 year old aluminum-bodied english Land Rover Series IIA that I drive...when I find something I like, I stick with it.

[bobdea]

it's not 17 years old if it has "torsion forks"(more like 11 or 12) and fatbobs suck as far as wide boards go, they do feel like a door compared to boards offered by the following never summer, burton, nitro, ride, rad air and even donek.

yes, I have tried one, like many people it was the first wide ride I got on. I've ridden 3 different model years, none of them were that special.

I sold a bunch of those boards, worked at a place selling k2 at the time. I was riding a k2 eldorado because I did not like the fat bob as much. I then went to a burton canyon which was first GOOD wide board I got on.

[BlueB]

Another fun project, I guess just like the H-channel hardboot bindings...

I'll pretend for a sec that you are not just trolling and trow in my 0.02 CAD.

I was going to do a similar thing with my 1st board, LTD All-Around 163, to ride street luge with my little son, last year. Then I have had realised it would have been way too flexy. I came up with couple of solutions, but then I figured that for the amount of work needed, I might just as well cut a nice big thick piece of plywood, to the shape I like. Then the kid started riding stand up tandem with me, so we didn't need the luge, after all...

Anyways, the way to cheat the "no change regulation" is to cut a thick plywood strip, and use it as a spine under the deck. It would serve as the riser for both trucks and would stiffen up the board. Besides the 4 mounting bolts at each end, I would recommend couple of extra ones along the axis of the board, too.

For the trucks, go with the Trackers, they make the widest available trucks, that won't brake the bank. It is a bitch when the truck/wheel combo is narrower then the board, as you can tip it over the edge of the wheels!

Repairs into snow riding shape shouldn't be too dificult. Clean the holes, sand them a bit, then fill in with epoxy structural putty, leaving a bit of space at the bottom for P-tex.

Finally, learn to slide the skate, otherwise you'll kill yourself riding downhill. That would also allow you to have stiffer bushings and reduce chances for wheel bite.

Then, if not a troll, I'll put the 3rd dare here - show us the pics of the completed project and a video of the ride!

[Alaskan Rover]

it's not 17 years old if it has "torsion forks"(more like 11 or 12) and fatbobs suck as far as wide boards go, they do feel like a door compared to boards offered by the following never summer, burton, nitro, ride, rad air and even donek.

yes, I have tried one, like many people it was the first wide ride I got on. I've ridden 3 different model years, none of them were that special.

I sold a bunch of those boards, worked at a place selling k2 at the time. I was riding a k2 eldorado because I did not like the fat bob as much. I then went to a burton canyon which was first GOOD wide board I got on.

Like I'd said, Bob, I think board fit is largely one of personal preference...once a grouping of boards is deemed of fairly equal size, useage, workmanship and quality. While I haven't tried the Never Summer; Nitro, Tanker nor Donek wides, I HAVE tried the Burton Canyon (over-rated, plus it has that annoying proprietary Burton binding hole design); K2 Eldorado (not a bad board, but I like the fatbob better in the crud, and the fact that Eldorado is quite a bit narrower precludes it from proper comparison) and the Ride Mountain (also over-rated and almost boring).

I don't think Fatbob is the board of all boards (I don't think any such board EXISTS)...just a board I personally prefer and have grown to like a lot. Personally, I think the Option Supercharger trumps any board you'd mentioned and is a superior board to Fatbob, but that is a personal opinion. Your blanket statement that "FatBobs suck as far as wide boards go" is equally as personal an opinion.

I have noticed on K2's newest website no mention of the FatBob for this year, and so looks out of production again. K2 now makes no board in that widest width (325mm tip). That's the third time it's gone out of production, I think.

[bobdea]

okay, here's some terms that make it fit then

a fat bob(most model years anyway) is like a wide version of something similar to a burton T deck or another soft sloppy mid 90s era board. where as something like a ride yukon is similar to a ride timeless or a burton canyon was at the time pretty much a wide Custom

you really think a option supercharger is better than a rad air tanker? maybe better than a canyon, but not a newer yukon, tanker wide, donek wide or many other boards.

some of it is personal but in this case it's mostly you being stubborn. you reveal this with this statement

"I thinks it's just a preference. It's like the 40 year old aluminum-bodied english Land Rover Series IIA that I drive...when I find something I like, I stick with it."

[Alaskan Rover]

....//....where as something like a ride yukon is similar to a ride timeless or a burton canyon was at the time pretty much a wide Custom.....you really think a option supercharger is better than a rad air tanker? maybe better than a canyon, but not a newer yukon, tanker wide, donek wide or many other boards.

some of it is personal but in this case it's mostly you being stubborn. you reveal this with this statement

Stubborness has nothing to do with it. I just like the board...it does everything I need it to do, including park and pipe and it does it with grace. I've tried the super hyped-up Salomon W4...didn't like it, so I don't ride it. Tried the Canyon, didn't like it as much, so I don't ride it. Tried the Option Supercharger...liked it a lot, so I'd LIKE to ride it. Never tried the Ride Yukon, so I would like to try it. There are a BUNCH of boards I would like to try, but so far haven't...so I don't ride them...yet.

Rad Air Tanker I haven't tried, but by Rad Air's own admission, it is not in any way board suitable for park/pipe, nor really an all-mountain board...but more of a powder/backcountry/big mountain board. I have no problem with that, as I ride those conditions and like those conditions, but when I was comparing it with Option Supercharger, the Option has different characteristics that also make it a really nice pipe board, in that it is very quick to come around mid air...but is ALSO very sticky on steeps. Tanker, in contrast, seems a good board for powder/big mountain, but not necessarily for pipe.

Donek is a company that I have just recently found out makes other boards than carve. They seem to make a great cross-over board that seems equally accepting of soft or hard boots. I also was just reading up on the the Donek Phoenix Wide 163...it seems like a great board to try. Good for park/pipe...good for all mountain...good for race (according to their website). The Donek Twin is a softer board more attuned strictly to freestyle. The reason I came to BOL in the first place is some guy in Virginia drove up to my land-rover, saw my AK plates...saw my FatBob on my rack, and started talking up Donek...and wrote the names Donek and BOL on a piece of scrap paper. After finding out just recently (like 40 minutes ago) about the Donek Phoenix Wide, I now know why he was hyping it as great AK board when I get back up there. I had thought Donek made only groomer boomers...guess I was totally wrong....so I would LOVE to try a Donek. The Incline seems cool too. Can't say I am in any way big on their narrow chop-tails, though. But the Incline, even though it's not a chop-tail, seems like it would it would be an interesting board to put some hardboots on, and switch back to softies that same day (or hour), back andc forth. Maybe even trying Fin's new adapter plate on, and start playing around with lift and cant. Not sure if the Phoenix would be attributable to that, and not the Twin...and certainly not the FatBob either. So the Incline would also be an interesting board to try out. So four boards I would LOVE to try out: Donek Phoenix Wide, Donek Incline and Jeremy Jone's new boards: the Jones Solution splitboard and the Jones Mountain Twin.

For me it boils down to simplicity. I don't want to carry a bunch of boards to a mountain...I'm not a gearhead. I want a board I trust and know well. While the Fatbob is good all-mountain and in and back-country pow...I must admit that it's not great at big-mountain steep hard-crusty stuff! So much so that I prefer my scarpas and AT skis for that stuff. So I would LIKE to try either the Donek Phoenix or Incline in that regard. Or, on the opposite side of the coin, if the Jones Solution splitboard did EVERYTHING well, from skinning uphill to limited pipe/park to decent freeride to gnarly, icy steeps, then it would certainly become my new "Manga"...but I don't think ANY board could do all that unless it was made by the hand of God.

As to the Land-Rover: While I cannot call the FatBob one of a short-list of the best boards ever made (just one that I like alot)...I CAN put the Series IIA Land Rover on the short-list as one of the best expedition vehicles ever designed...and would be backed up by a LOT of expert people in that regard. It has now been eclipsed by Defender and Unimog in terms of offroad prowess (but certainly not by much!), but it has NEVER been eclipsed in terms of longevity/durability and ruggedness. It's hand-built 'birmabrite' body never rusts, you can start it with a hand-crank when you leave your headlights on, it's FAR superior to a Wrangler, it's got the cool split windshield, it's extremely simple to work on, and it has TONS of character. It's always turning heads, always giving smiles and thumbs up, and people are always asking about it and if I want to sell it. It's super slow, but driving slowly allows me to enjoy ANY trip better. It makes even a trip to the corner store like an expedition, and it has the offroad "chops" to back up it's image...unlike names like GMC Yukon; Ford Expedition; ford Explorer, ETC ETC. I love it!! Nothing to do with stubborness! Are you "stubborn" if you stick with your wife???

BTW: The reason I said "Land Rover Series IIA" in one long sentence like that has nothing to do with pompousness, it's simply the fact that if I said just "Land Rover" most people WOULD equate to the rather pompous, fancy Range Rover or the slightly less pompous Discovery. If I said simply "Series IIA", most people wouldn't know if I was talking about an ATV or a lawnmower or a bike, that's all.

Back to the original post:BlueB, when I buy the other used fatbob (the used ones are more expensive than I'd thought!) and put the trucks on, I'll snap some pix. I'll look out for those trucks you'd mentioned. I'll look on eBay for a used set. Tentatively, I am thinking of adding a 1/4 aluminum plate to the board bottom as a stiffener. It's 'fairly' easy to cut with a metal-blade jig saw. Thanks for your advice!!

[BlueB]

To be more spesific, they are Tracker Dart 219. Here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/300421801613?cmd=item45f288e68d

You'll get more stiffness out of 1" or 3/4" plywood then 1/4" aluminum. Stiffness of a beam increases by the ^3 of the thickness (materials being the same). Other benefits are more rise, cheaper and easier to work with. If you used good grade, like marine ply, you wouldn't even have to treat it - won't rott for many years. If you wanted it light, then look for a product called "Light Ply".

Looking forwar to the photos.

____________

As for the Land Rovers, for what it's worth, this is from the guy who lived in Africa for over a decade, traveled more then 15 African countries and drowe in the bush...

In Africa, when you say Land Rover, everyone thinks just that, the good old "real" Land Rover. And no, it is not the best performing or even most reliable vehicle out there. Actually it brakes down quite a bit. The ultimate expedition popularity comes from these facts:

- In almost every remote place you still should be able to find some parts for it, at least used, unlike for the other vehicles.

- It is simple and been around for ages, so you are likely to find someone who knows how to repair it. Or you'd be able to repair it yourself, unlike the hihgly computerised modern cars.

- It is diesel. Again, availability of the fuel - wherever the trucks (or tanks) go, you'll find some diesel...

[bobdea]

dude, that's a long post, and you said little of substance.

the rad air tanker 167 and 177 are probably two of the most capable wide all mountain boards available. what makes tankers so good is they work well in the pow, really well in resort pow and trees, can pull park duty with ease and do well on resort cord. that's about all mountain as you can get.

and land rovers are over rated, even the old ones and WAY over priced to boot.

tell you what, a tanker 167 in the pipe would be better than a fat bob in similar size, little stiffer, little snappier, tons more stable and holds a edge better.

[Alaskan Rover]

and land rovers are over rated, even the old ones and WAY over priced to boot.

tell you what, a tanker 167 in the pipe would be better than a fat bob in similar size, little stiffer, little snappier, tons more stable and holds a edge better.

BobDea:

Ok....I'll add the Tanker to my growing list of boards to look at. I looked up Rad Air's specification page on the web, and it seems one needs an electron microscope to read the specific technical info...I would hope they put more care into their board manufacture than they do with their webpage. But alas, I'd add them to my list....ahem...BEHIND the following boards that are already on that list to be tried: Jones Solution splitboard; Jones Mountain Twin; Donek Phoenix Wide; Donek Incline.

You might be right about some of the new land-rovers in terms of price. The newest fully optioned out Range Rover tops the scales at $126,000. The new LR3 tops out at close to $60,000 fully optioned. I think those prices are outrageous, although strictly speaking they ARE very capable offroad...it's just that many people consider taking them off road is taking them to the tee on the driving range. The ultimate in absurdly overpriced and overratedness has GOT to be the Mercedes-Benz Gelendawagon (G-wagon): they start at $135,000 and even higher for the AMG. They look like an old Montero and the damn things RUST.

As far as OLD Landies (the original Series landies) are concerned, you are TOTALLY off the mark...and probably know nothing about them. Sure, the old ones cost a bit to pick up...up to $85,000 for a nicely restored one...but most decent 1960's exampes can be found for between $12,000 and $30,000. Sometimes as low as $8,000 even. Sure...that's a lot different from $950 for an old beater jeep....but they are worth EVERY penny!!...and more. Mine is 40 years old, been abused from Alaska to the Yukon to Maine and Montana and back again, and now the East Coast again...has NEVER been restored and is STILL super tight and square and doesn't even squeek. Does drip a lot of oil...they ALL do. ha ha. But it has well over 400,000 miles...it's earned a few drips and dents! Yeah, REALLY 'over-rated'....ha ha.

They ARE widely known, and deservedly so, as being one of the most durable and rugged vehicles EVER made. The old Scouts and Broncos CJ Jeeps were good too, but they rust A LOT. So do the Toyotas. None of those vehicles is set-up for world-wide remote expeditioning quite the same as the original Series Land Rovers were.

Here are just two of the many popular write-ups on the old Land Rovers:

From: The Traveller's Handbook

Chp: "Overland by truck or van"

page 101:

"Despite some weaknesses, Land Rovers are the most durable small four wheel-drive vehicles on the market. Their spartan comforts are their main attributes; most of their recent challengers are too lightly sprung and have too many car-like comforts to have any real reliability in hard cross-country use. The aluminum body panels can be hammered back into shape and then forgotten...."

From: The Four Wheel Drive Bible

Chp: Army surplus vehicles, Land Rovers, Etc.

page 197:

"...The greatest loss to the serious American off roader is the non-availability of the Land Rover. It is the best made off-road vehicle in the world and one of the best vehicles ever made of any type."

And as the following photo shows: They DON'T need paint at ALL. ha ha.

My own Land Rover Series IIA is the pix below that.

[Petrol]

so we've learned that one man's garden tractor is another man's manure

as for the land rover, I think that BlueB nailed it...

simple basic design that didn't change for decades and compatibility with poor quality diesel are apperciable traits when your in the third world.

as to converting the fatbob to skate and BlueB nailed it again...

instead of two riser blocks, use just one that's 30" long. Ride it, crash it, whatever. Next winter don't worry about it, just plug the holes with epoxy, p-tex and ride it again. You'll probably never notice the differance

[Alaskan Rover]

so we've learned that one man's garden tractor is another man's manure

as for the land rover, I think that BlueB nailed it...

simple basic design that didn't change for decades and compatibility with poor quality diesel are apperciable traits when your in the third world.

as to converting the fatbob to skate and BlueB nailed it again...

instead of two riser blocks, use just one that's 30" long. Ride it, crash it, whatever. Next winter don't worry about it, just plug the holes with epoxy, p-tex and ride it again. You'll probably never notice the differance

Yeah...I'm going to take BlueB's advice and use plywood instead of aluminum. I figure 1" thick should do. That'll stiffen-up the board. I'll make cut-out in the plywood above the wheels. I figure for re-filling the holes to prep for winter, I'll mix sawdust in with the epoxy...that'll stiffen up the epoxy mixture.

Also: Thank you, Carvingchef, for your board truck advice. Looks like there are a few diff manufacturers of wide trucks. Those Surf-Rodz extensions look pretty tight. I figure the 250mm trucks plus 40mm extensions at each wheel equals 80mm extenson total, so 330mm width total. The board is about 300mm wide where the trucks would be...so that might work out well. Be hecka wide, longboard deck, though!!

[Justin A.]

Yeah...I'm going to take BlueB's advice and use plywood instead of aluminum. I figure 1" thick should do. That'll stiffen-up the board. I'll make cut-out in the plywood above the wheels. I figure for re-filling the holes to prep for winter, I'll mix sawdust in with the epoxy...that'll stiffen up the epoxy mixture.

Also: Thank you, Carvingchef, for your board truck advice. Looks like there are a few diff manufacturers of wide trucks. Those Surf-Rodz extensions look pretty tight. I figure the 250mm trucks plus 40mm extensions at each wheel equals 80mm extenson total, so 330mm width total. The board is about 300mm wide where the trucks would be...so that might work out well. Be hecka wide, longboard deck, though!!

What reasonably priced 250mm truck did you find?

[Alaskan Rover]

What reasonably priced 250mm truck did you find?

It was a link from Carvingchef...a place called "Daddies board shop". $74.99...I assume for a pair. I'll try to put the page link below:

http://www.daddiesboardshop.com/original-s10-250mm-longboard-trucks.aspx

[Justin A.]

It was a link from Carvingchef...a place called "Daddies board shop". $74.99...I assume for a pair. I'll try to put the page link below:

http://www.daddiesboardshop.com/original-s10-250mm-longboard-trucks.aspx

See, I don't call that a reasonably priced truck. $50 is reasonable for a pair, over that and you're getting expensive, especially for something that amounts to a goof-off.

[Alaskan Rover]

See, I don't call that a reasonably priced truck. $50 is reasonable for a pair, over that and you're getting expensive, especially for something that amounts to a goof-off.

I'm not so sure. I think the trucks are a very integral part to a longboard. As Carvingchef found out, you can make your own boards...but trucks are something not to mess with. I think for people who are into longboarding, $75 for the right set of trucks is not too bad.

I don't think long-boarding is any more of a "goof-off" than snowboarding or surfing or biking...and people spends sometimes thousands on snowboarding equipment, bicycles and surfing trips. In a way, longboarding is quite an inexpensive sport, considering the "mountain" is usually free.

BTW: Which singer penned the lyrics for your signature quote?...I sorta like it. I didn't know there were too many 'rappin' theoretical physicists out there!!

[KingCrimson]

Lazy..I'll write in blue

I'm not so sure. I think the trucks are a very integral part to a longboard. As Carvingchef found out, you can make your own boards...but trucks are something not to mess with. I think for people who are into longboarding, $75 for the right set of trucks is not too bad. You're not into longboarding, you're making a silly toy. What is "expensive" is dictated by the market. I'm sure the average expenditure on a set of trucks is less than this.

I don't think long-boarding is any more of a "goof-off" than snowboarding or surfing or biking...and people spends sometimes thousands on snowboarding equipment, bicycles and surfing trips. In a way, longboarding is quite an inexpensive sport, considering the "mountain" is usually free.

Surprisingly, it IS a goof-off when you're turning a mediocre snowboard into an even worse longboard.

BTW: Which singer penned the lyrics for your signature quote?...I sorta like it. I didn't know there were too many 'rappin' theoretical physicists out there!!

[Alaskan Rover]

Quoted by KingCrimson:

"You're not into longboarding, you're making a silly toy. What is "expensive" is dictated by the market. I'm sure the average expenditure on a set of trucks is less than this."

I beg to differ, KingCrimson. First, I never stated I WAS into longboarding, although my general skateboarding style had ALWAYS been more of a california road-surfing style...I found that out with the first time I 'trespassed' in a parking garage as a kid, when my other friends always went to the skatepark. Just that true wide-truck LONGboards weren't around back then, excedpt maybe in various places like santa Cruz, so we made due with what we had and bought the longest decks we could find and put the widest trucks on them we could find. Not quite a TRUE longboard with cut-outs or pointed ends, but they were workable.

As far as "expensiveness", I believe market dictates PRICE. Whether that price is 'expensive' or not is dictated solely by the buyer's individual state of finance at the time of sale. If you're flush, it may be 'inexpensive'...if you're broke at the time, it may be deemed 'too expensive'....I'm somewhere in the middle, but have seen both ends.

How does one determine what is "silly" and what is "serious"? Who are you to judge one from the other? I often dally in what other's can consider "silly", while at the time, I am doing it, I am quite serious about it.

Some (not me) may consider it 'silly' to take chairlifts up a mountain just to come back down again to the same exact point...and spend $77 for the priviledge of doing such...and do it REPEATEDLY. "Sillyness" then, is in the eye of the beholder and not the beholden.

Well....it's 8 am on a beautiful blue-sky morning...I'm going to be SILLY now....I'm glad I can be.

[Justin A.]

Quoted by KingCrimson:

"You're not into longboarding, you're making a silly toy. What is "expensive" is dictated by the market. I'm sure the average expenditure on a set of trucks is less than this."

I beg to differ, KingCrimson. First, I never stated I WAS into longboarding, although my general skateboarding style had ALWAYS been more of a california road-surfing style.

The average expenditure on trucks is ~$50. There are $250 racing trucks and $20 crap trucks, but Randals (by far the most popular) go for ~$50.

You implied that you were into longboarding by saying:

I'm not so sure. I think the trucks are a very integral part to a longboard. As Carvingchef found out, you can make your own boards...but trucks are something not to mess with. I think for people who are into longboarding, $75 for the right set of trucks is not too bad.

If you're going to spend $75 on trucks, chances are you're "into" longboarding.

How does one determine what is "silly" and what is "serious"? Who are you to judge one from the other? I often dally in what other's can consider "silly", while at the time, I am doing it, I am quite serious about it.

Buying a real longboard = serious about longboarding.

Making a mediocre snowboard into a terrible longboard = silly - your whole purported story stems from a dare, remember?

Seriously, figure out what it is that you want to do and then find some other website to ask for help on (preferably not Silverfish, either), I'm sick of your attitude.