carvingmontana Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 If anybody knows anything about these bindings, they would surely be a member of this group. So here goes... these bindings were purchased in the early 90s, and in all my travels, have only seen 1 other pair. The company, Rat Trap, which I believe was Canadian, later went out of business. I think. Any info on the origin or anything else of these well made bindings would be much appreciated. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPhilippe Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 sorry is have no answere, but a question looks interesting, but whats teh benefit of this construction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Light wieght for an all metal binder, simple and micro adjusts through cable tension. Not sure about the history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Some similarities to the original CAT bindings which later became Catek. I remember seeing these when they came out but don't know any of the story about them. Ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Light wieght for an all metal binder, simple and micro adjusts through cable tension. I don't see how that's possible, it looks like the block on the cable with the two screws only clamps, and does not tighten...? It does look a lot like CAT, but with the cable taking the place of the CAT frame. The effectiveness of that design looks very dubious to me. It looks like the screws at the four corners would see shear and torsion loads, and wouldn't get enough help from the cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Yeah Rattraps from the logo on the centerplate. Think they were Canadian. Chris Prior sold me a pair of what I'd guess would have been a later model that had the solid metal frame rather than the wired loop. Very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 does the heel lift up? maybe a tele binding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 I don't see how that's possible, it looks like the block on the cable with the two screws only clamps, and does not tighten...?It does look a lot like CAT, but with the cable taking the place of the CAT frame. The effectiveness of that design looks very dubious to me. It looks like the screws at the four corners would see shear and torsion loads, and wouldn't get enough help from the cable. You would loosen the screws, pull or release some cable then tighten up the screws at the new location. There was a slight amount of cable stretch and the heel bail slides through the heel block allowing the micro adjust. If I am not mistaken, these were for ski boots much like the CAT bindings. When you put the boot in the toe would be raised off the toe block. Push down the toe and the cable slack is taken up, the heel bail moves back then you were able to flip the toe lever over. These took a bit of trial and error to get them fitted correctly. Ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 You would loosen the screws, pull or release some cable then tighten up the screws at the new location. There was a slight amount of cable stretch and the heel bail slides through the heel block allowing the micro adjust. If I am not mistaken, these were for ski boots much like the CAT bindings. When you put the boot in the toe would be raised off the toe block. Push down the toe and the cable slack is taken up, the heel bail moves back then you were able to flip the toe lever over. These took a bit of trial and error to get them fitted correctly.Ink Oh, I see, thanks. Neat. Clugey looking, but neat. I knew you'd have to shorten or lengthen the cable by hand, but without knowing the heel bail slid in the heel block, I thought you'd have to somehow maintain tension on that cable by hand while you screwed the clamp down. (kind of like when I installed the zip line in our back yard, not fun!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John H Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Is it a toe bail or a heel bail? I seem to remember a metal binding that had the flip up lever at the heel, not the toe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 Wouldn't be surprising if it was a heel bail on a binding that old. My old Elfgens were heel bails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjvircks Posted March 29, 2010 Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 I did a zoom in of the image and it looks like the clip lever is a toe bale. For a heel bale the boot engaging portion is much shorter and in a different relation to the lever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvingmontana Posted March 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2010 No heel lift, and toe (not heel) bale. I believe I remember reference in the Almanac about adjusting the cant/lean by cutting pieces of plastic cutting board. Maybe these will shed a little more light. Are they really that obscure?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 howdy carvingmontana mount it on your wall and get a TD3!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 howdy carvingmontanamount it on your wall and get a TD3!!! I am willing to trade "New for Old" under some circumstances. Contact me directly through the BOL email system if you are interested. I have SnowPro/ Bomber TD1/ TD2 bindings for trade up. Please , I will NOT respond without good photos of your trades. I would be interested in a trade or purchase of the these bindings for my collection. PS, Your email is not activated. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Rat Traps have been made in Vancouver, now discontinued... I know at least 2 local guys who have several pairs and love them a lot. They were a lot ahead of their time, by the looks of it. I do not know anyone that broke them. It seems that the best way to adjust the cant/lift and FLEX, is to use skateboard bushings of desired height and flex as toe/heel screw spacers. For better info on setup, you should contact Dave* or Tenorman, directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted March 30, 2010 Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 That's gotta be the coolest and most elegant binding design I've seen. If the cable had a little ratchet on it, it would be a million times better for demo bindings than the rental Burtons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave* Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 The infamous "Rattrap" and not the burton version. Locally made here in Vancouver back in the day ( 90's ) by Trident Sports who were primarily a windsurfing outfit if memory serves correct. I still have a set, they are bulletproof that is for sure. Easily tunable if you are willing to stack washers or make shims ( cutting board works great, as does micarta slabs) I have the 2nd generation identical to the pictures from Carvingmontana that utilize the cable system , the first generation had a turnbuckle system if my hazy memory serves correctand had a tendency to develop stress risers in the heel bail, corrected in gen 2. Stiffness/feel wise they sit right between the burton racepate and a TD2 with yellow rings, Best designed toe bail ever, aluminum , so very burly yet low profile off the front of the boot.. Zero similarity to a Catek for canting etc. The bail blocks are more akin to a burton bail block with shimming underneath for cant/lift etc, Bail blocks bolt to base plate utilizing stainless "tee nuts" inserted into a series of holes in base plate that also has a thin rubber gasket between plate and board. Cable adjustment a bit of a pain to get set up initially for boot length, once set never touch again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan ok Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 I have a few of these Rat-Trap Bindings that I got from Trident Sports in Vancouver BC, Canada just before they stopped making them. I love these bindings:1luvu:. They fit in between the TD's and the Burtons for flex, The thin base plate provides the flex. Changing to a thicker plate just flexes the boot instead. Canting and lift are done with washers and plastic spacers. Vibration is reduced with rubber/aluminum washers. The long toe bail is easy to open and close and the heel bail does not fall over or fall back. Snow does not get packed into the center and can be cleaned out easily The cable adjustment can be a pain but the fit does not change with temperature. Can be adjusted snug in a warm house and not be sloppy on those cold days. If you want to get rid of these bindings, I could put them to good use. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobD Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 It looks like that heel bail arrangement would provide an easy way to adjust flex. Much of the flex felt with a burton race plate comes from the heel bail allowing the rear boot heel to lift up during toe side turns. With the sliding bail arrangement, the amount of bail flex could be adjusted. The same adjustment could be achieved on the toe bail, if it used hinges like the bomber TDs. The toe bail could run right through the hinge, and be fixed with a locking bolt. napkin sketch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 That's gotta be the coolest and most elegant binding design I've seen. I'd say Bomber and Catek are more elegant. Achieving vibration reduction with rubber washers on those 4 corner screws isn't good engineering (if that is what's going on there). A screw needs to be tightened (pre-loaded) to a stress higher than what the working stress will be when the screw is put into function. This prevents the screw from being cyclically loaded. If there's rubber in the middle, the screw won't be pre-loaded enough at all. If the cable had a little ratchet on it, it would be a million times better for demo bindings than the rental Burtons. Agreed, that would be elegant for a rental binding. But it isn't ratcheted. The cable is only achieving micro sizing. The cost of doing it this way is that there appears to be a major stress-riser where the heel bail enters the holes in the heel block. The heel bail will be loaded in bending against the edge of those holes. This reminds me of the frame rails of the old Burton Variplate, which were clamped in place. I've had and seen a few of those that snapped at the clamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan ok Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Can you preload the screws on a plastic component binding like the F2 or Burton? They are only 6mm diameter vs. 1/4" on the Rattrap. I wonder how close we are to overloading the screws? Maybe the rubber washers are not for vibration but for flex? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Can you preload the screws on a plastic component binding like the F2 or Burton? They are only 6mm diameter vs. 1/4" on the Rattrap. That would work better and maybe that's what they did. Preload the screws on metal or plastic spacers. Then have rubber spacers around those and have the toe/heel block ride on the rubber. It would be trapped by the screw, but would be free to compress the rubber. Maybe the rubber washers are not for vibration but for flex?Dan basically the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 also, look at how angled the screw head is compared to the base of the binding... yikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan ok Posted March 31, 2010 Report Share Posted March 31, 2010 Looking at my Rattrap bindings and confirmed by the photos, The footpad mounting does not look as elegant as Jack is describing. It looks like the plastic spacers are sitting on top of the washer with rubber below that. Would cyclic loading of the screws be that bad? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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