Interesting new idea for a hardboot/board interface...

[dano]

Limpsinking? Is that when you are sitting on the toilet and your legs fall asleep?

I think the term you are looking for is lip-synching.

Limpsinking is trying to get some from a chubby canadian chick in a janitor's closet and not being up to the task.

[Alaskan Rover]

Kjl:

I guess I must admit that I am a tinkerer of words...I love turning them over, studying them from this angle and that, adding one to another and seeing if they implode. I love playing around with the geometry of words and the architecture of sentences, but you can have no doubt about this next salient point: I always strive to ensure that my words have meaning, and that each sentence or paragraph has a point, whether merely for entertainment or for some more inductive purpose...otherwise they simply become audible fluff.

Perhaps, as you had once suggested, your views of me are tempered by a post I had written a week ago, and thus forever more, every idea that I have and everything that I write gets submitted to that filter...a polarizing screen, if you will, of words and ideas. Sometimes though, the screen may be too dark, and it filters out the good along with the bad. I can only hope that sometime in the future you will endeavor to see a spectrum of ideas through the unfiltered eye.

Given that, however, I take your input with certain weight...as I would the input of anyone. Yours comes from experience with hardboots on a board, whereas mine comes merely from AT hardboots on two skinny boards.

I have no dread of failure...in fact, initially, I rather expect it. But I think, perhaps, that ideas are like plants, in that new ideas and new inventions sprout from the soil of failed ones.

I guess if Bruce Willis can turn into John Travolta merely by the addition of a cheap toupee and a white pimp-suit...ANYTHING is possible.

Ideas are free...will is sometimes taxed.

[Jon Dahl]

Before you re-invent the wheel. 1) Get a pair of plate bindings, without cant or damping built in, ride them and feel first hand what you are trying to do. 2) Get some first gen Clickers, take the cleat out of the boot, put them into your ski boots, mount the binding to your board and play. This has been done by someone in the past, and will imitate what you are suggesting. May also try the same exercise with the Switch binding...I think I've seen this done once before, also.

[Ohob]

You are going to have to reinforce the heck out of whatever boot you are going to be hacking up. Depending on how wide your metal stock is going to be (looks pretty narrow from your sketch) I'd be worried about ripping it out of the bottom of the boot at a very importune moment.

From my layman pov, it looks like most of the clamping force a hard boot is going to take is on the top of the toe and heel (and of course spread out to the 4 t-nuts in the heel for Fintech's and Intech's). Judging from your sketch, your channel might end up in places that are not designed to hold any force at all. If you were to do something like this with a soft boot it might end up being even worse.

[Alaskan Rover]

Jon Dahl: Thanks.

Yeah....I am going to try and get a hold of as much used gear and parts and pieces of parts that I can...and just start messing around with various ideas. I originally LOVED the idea and look of the K2 Clickers when they first came out, and the boot was actually very well made. But when I rented a pair at Whistler...I found they just sucked in deep snow if you needed to boot-out and then boot back in. They'd cram up with snow, and also were VERY difficult to put on while sitting down...nearly impossible sometimes. I took them back after 1/2 day and got strappers instead!....but those boots and bindings SURE ''looked'' nice!!

In that regard, that is one problem this present idea will have: it will be difficult to put on while sitting down. Or standing on incline. When I am booting in and don't want to sit down, I'll walk around in circles like a dog, digging a flat spot, until I find just the right spot. That lack of useability in anything but level hardpack is [probably one of the reasons Clickers never caught on as they should have. I gotta work on that problem of engaging the binding easily in all conditions.

Ohob: thanks for your ideas.

My idea has changed a LOT since those sketches. I made a mistake and forgot the disc doesn't rotate...the binding rotates around the disc. Stupid mistake...and my board is strapped to my car just 60 feet away!!!

Anyway...I am now envisioning the T-track on base that rotates around the disc...not a track welded to the disc itself...somebody pointed that out, and I am thankful. Envision the bottom platform of a strap binding. That would give a LOT more area to secure a track to, hence making it more resistant to moment stress....plus it would look more finished to boot (no pun intended). Would also be room for a harmonic damping system I am playing around with. I've got some old strap-bindings I can grind the upper strap brackets off..and put HDPE under the platform to contact the board within 0.5mm or less. Matter of fact, if I ever get the whole thing down, or whatever else I come up with, that'll be it's name: ENVISION. ha ha. Gotta work on that problem of easily engaging the channel while sitting or standing, though.

[NateW]

But I'm not convinced there is nothing that can be done to come up with something different which may do certain things better.

I completely agree that there's always room for improvement.

But what we have here is a design which shall defenestrate an exceptionally valuable feature of my favorite incumbent: in secure myself to my board, I simply put my toe into the loop, and put weight on my heel; this contrivance requires that I precisely align my foot with the binding, and slide my foot forward about a foot (pun intended) while maintaining that precise alignment.

Meanwhile, the biggest drawback to the incumbent - the interference of solidified dihydrogen monoxide in the workings of the apparatus - is apparently going to get worse due to the increased surface area of the boot/binding interface.

If one wishes to improve, I believe it is beneficial to start from - or at least, be aware of - a definition of "improve" in the context of the invention.

(I like big words too.)

[NateW]

You are going to have to reinforce the heck out of whatever boot you are going to be hacking up. Depending on how wide your metal stock is going to be (looks pretty narrow from your sketch) I'd be worried about ripping it out of the bottom of the boot at a very importune moment

This minor problem can be overcome by attaching the channel-bearing component of the invention to the bottom of the boot via some mechanism that provides a strong, secure attachment. And preferably easy removal as well, so that prototypes can be interchanged easily with each iteration of the development process.

For example, you could affix brackets like these to the top of the channel-bearing member... http://tinyurl.com/yap39jg

[NateW]

I guess my hypothesis has shifted to how a non-carve hard-boot system can better be adapted to freeride...

It might help if you clarified what you meant by the highlighted terms.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I don't think you used enough "thus-es "

[John E]

Thinking outside the box and not being constrained by what exists can be good for innovation. I also believe that the simplest solution is usually the best.

I think the biggest problem to solve will be ease of getting out but mostly ease of getting in. The channel in the boot will almost certainly clog with snow or ice. The idea may work well in a perfect world but may be too unforgiving for many users over a wide range of conditions.

I used Clickers for several seasons & did not have the clogging problems cited by others. I found that they just did not support as well a strap bindings.

When I first looked at Intec bindings, I thought they were just a way to adapt what were essentially ski boots to a step-in snowboard binding. It seemed strange to have the mechanism in the boot rather than fixed to the board. However, after I have used them for a while & tried to think of a way to improve them, I have realized the difficult problems they solve and can think of no way to improve them.

[Alaskan Rover]

I completely agree that there's always room for improvement.

But what we have here is a design which shall defenestrate an exceptionally valuable feature of my favorite incumbent: in secure myself to my board, I simply put my toe into the loop, and put weight on my heel; this contrivance requires that I precisely align my foot with the binding, and slide my foot forward about a foot (pun intended) while maintaining that precise alignment.

Meanwhile, the biggest drawback to the incumbent - the interference of solidified dihydrogen monoxide in the workings of the apparatus - is apparently going to get worse due to the increased surface area of the boot/binding interface.

If one wishes to improve, I believe it is beneficial to start from - or at least, be aware of - a definition of "improve" in the context of the invention.

(I like big words too.)

NateW: Ha ha...your message made me laugh. :o :) Subtle, well constructed humor is the whipped cream on top of the mocha...it tickles the nose, but oh, is it sooo good.

Unfortunately I am very saddened that the liquid Dihydrogen Monoxide presently falling from the blasted troposphere is causing the solid Dihydrogen Monoxide that so deliciously covers the ground surface to rapidly disappear from my vision...a vexing new scenario for one that relishes the propensity for acute acceleration that the gravitational force doth provide when the forces of friction are sufficiently minimized. :(

ShortcutTomoncton:

And thus it shall be known evermore, that the word "thus", from this moment on, shall be promptly and resolutely expunged from my vocabulary...thusLY thwarting any lateral movement towards pedantism. >>>>>......;);)>>>>>:)

[tex1230]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=verbal%20masturbation

[energyrail]

This has to the funniest thread in a awhile. I almost died laughing at that last one.

[Alaskan Rover]

Thinking outside the box and not being constrained by what exists can be good for innovation. I also believe that the simplest solution is usually the best.

I think the biggest problem to solve will be ease of getting out but mostly ease of getting in. The channel in the boot will almost certainly clog with snow or ice. The idea may work well in a perfect world but may be too unforgiving for many users over a wide range of conditions.

I used Clickers for several seasons & did not have the clogging problems cited by others. I found that they just did not support as well a strap bindings.

When I first looked at Intec bindings, I thought they were just a way to adapt what were essentially ski boots to a step-in snowboard binding. It seemed strange to have the mechanism in the boot rather than fixed to the board. However, after I have used them for a while & tried to think of a way to improve them, I have realized the difficult problems they solve and can think of no way to improve them.

Thanks, John E. I think it is like a car's steering wheel. Cars have had a simple worm and roller or rack and pinion steering system for EVER. The other systems of a car have changed dramatically, but two things seem steadfast: the steering wheel and the four wheels and a rotating drive shaft as a way of steering the vehicle and transfering power to the road. Essentially the same for 100 years now. Why? Because they work well and do their job with SOME modicum of efficiency.

That said, sooner or later someone is going to come up with a wholly different approach to driving a vehicle. We are a LONG way off from a vehicle that hovers efficiently or drives 100% autonomously...but that doesn't stop people from trying out different ideas. That fact cars are basically still recognizable as cars means either of two things: either that spectrum of 'auto" inventions simply didn't work...OR they were TOO expensive.

You are EXACTLY right about simplicity!! Simplicity of design is the essence of grace. My first idea for a binding was grounded in trying to find a more simple solution to the boot to deck interface....but that first idea didn't work. I was thinking about it wrongly. So, I'll keep trying other ideas....because once an idea takes hold, it's like an itch, one that I have to scratch until I figure it out.

The larger base that a strap-type binding base provides will afford more room to work out a way to get something that is easier to engage...especially the 2nd foot, as OldSnowboards.com had mentioned.

That is the vexing problem. But, I've got some other ideas that may alleviate that problem.

If I hadn't posted my initial query, I wouldn't have known that I was on the wrong track. I have garnered some EXCELLENT suggestions from people here. My first path was the wrong direction. From correspondance here, I am now thinking of a slightly different platform....one that will solve the engaging/disengaging problem. Ice is another problem. But everyone would still be on wooden skis with Spademan bindings if no one tried different ideas. So thanks everybody, for your input!

[Alaskan Rover]

Thinking outside the box and not being constrained by what exists can be good for innovation. I also believe that the simplest solution is usually the best.

I think the biggest problem to solve will be ease of getting out but mostly ease of getting in. The channel in the boot will almost certainly clog with snow or ice. The idea may work well in a perfect world but may be too unforgiving for many users over a wide range of conditions.

I used Clickers for several seasons & did not have the clogging problems cited by others. I found that they just did not support as well a strap bindings.

When I first looked at Intec bindings, I thought they were just a way to adapt what were essentially ski boots to a step-in snowboard binding. It seemed strange to have the mechanism in the boot rather than fixed to the board. However, after I have used them for a while & tried to think of a way to improve them, I have realized the difficult problems they solve and can think of no way to improve them.

Thanks, John E. I think it is like a car's steering wheel. Cars have had a simple worm and roller or rack and pinion steering system for EVER. The other systems of a car have changed dramatically, but two things seem steadfast: the steering wheel and the four wheels and a rotating drive shaft as a way of steering the vehicle and transfering power to the road. Essentially the same for 100 years now. Why? Because they work well and do their job with SOME modicum of efficiency.

That said, sooner or later someone is going to come up with a wholly different approach to driving a vehicle. We are a LONG way off from a vehicle that hovers efficiently or drives 100% autonomously...but that doesn't stop people from trying out different ideas. That fact cars are basically still recognizable as cars means either of two things: either that spectrum of 'auto" inventions simply didn't work...OR they were TOO expensive.

You are EXACTLY right about simplicity!! Simplicity of design is the essence of grace. My first idea for a binding was grounded in trying to find a more simple solution to the boot to deck interface....but that first idea didn't work. I was thinking about it wrongly. So, I'll keep trying other ideas....because once an idea takes hold, it's like an itch, one that I have to scratch until I figure it out.

The larger base that a strap-type binding base provides will afford more room to work out a way to get something that is easier to engage...especially the 2nd foot, as OldSnowboards.com had mentioned.

That is the vexing problem. But, I've got some other ideas that may alleviate that problem.

If I hadn't posted my initial query, I wouldn't have known that I was on the wrong track. I have garnered some EXCELLENT suggestions from people here. My first path was the wrong direction. From correspondance here, I am now thinking of a slightly different platform....one that will solve the engaging/disengaging problem, and also, due to a new idea that I've had, ALSO be able to have ADJUSTABLE cant and lift. Ice is another problem. But everyone would still be on wooden skis with Spademan bindings if no one tried different ideas. So thanks everybody (excepting, of course, the unaccepting Tex1230), for your input!