Hot Rod Race Wax!

[t.stoughton]

Red Oak Development Llc

A big thanks to Fin for approving us to make our company announcement on “Bomber Online.” Home of Hot Rod Race Wax is now available using online shopping. Check out our website at either www.ROD-Llc.com or www.HotRodRaceWax.com . Please read our testimonials! This is a great opportunity to keep the riding and skiing enthusiasts up to date with our product development and the race wax product that we offer. You can also search Bomber Online or jump to the Accessories Thread; http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=59

We are very excited to keep you up to date on our progress to produce a “High Performance No-Wax Base”. Just imagine the perfect glide in any condition. Just grab your gear and go. No waxing, no scraping, no brushing, just check your edges and hit the slopes. Very cool! Thanks, www.ROD-Llc.com

[bobdea]

do you have other waxes in the works?

first impressions I get from the website and this is not how I feel just looking at it from a layman's POV

32.50 for 50 grams is sorta up there for a all temp wax. Am I missing something?

is there something special in it? what is it comparable to?

looking for clarification as to what the stuff is and what you'd compare it to as to judge it by. for example swix black devil or one of their HF waxes or say dominator mid fluro.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think I know what type of wax the stuff is but you need to try to communicate it better..

some info on intended use and the type of wax we're dealing with would be very helpful. the best wax is useless if you can't use it right.

[bobdea]

also, have you guys tested this stuff either in the east or far west?

CO conditions tend to be dry snow and non abrasive.

what's this about not "over" scraping?

does this mean I get my base structured for nothing?

finally, you mind selling some samples sizes?

[t.stoughton]

Derek Runes our Team Rider, Dustin, and Mario will be giving out samples tomorrow at SES. Fin has full size give a ways from us... 10 precious pieces!

Next you asked about testing in harsh conditions. Yes... the product work extremely well in soft conditions due to the amount of PTFE. As for wear and abrasive conditions, the formula is very firm to address wear. Coupled with the waxing instructions makes for a unique product. Everyone who is using our product is getting multiple days per hot wax, which we were designing for. It is also 50% less expensive than comp. products see SWIX HF4 or Black Devil at alot of pay-ola!

This product is designed to be applied per the instructions. The base structure aids in protecting you base when you hit something hard and it releases wax like a shock absorber. HRRW is deigned to be applied hazy and will leave a micro structure with a lite scrape and lite brush. Our product is designed to be very forgiving, and fast. See our website. www.HotRodRaceWax.com And don’t take our word, find and ask Derek, Dustin, and Mario… have them flip over their boards and feel it!

[big mario]

also, have you guys tested this stuff either in the east or far west?

CO conditions tend to be dry snow and non abrasive.

Bob,

I have been running this wax since mid october, and a fair portion of early season has been on man made, or on pretty firm conditions for colorado due to a serious lack of snow. I have been getting at least 4 days between waxings, sometimes more at 250lbs plus. I am pretty impressed with the durability thus far.

mario

[inkaholic]

Bobdea,

When I raced I used Swix, Holmenkol, Toko, Dominator, OneBallJay, XXX, KUU, pretty much anything that I could get to find the fastest glide. The Hot Rod out performs all of these in my opinion. The glide is very smooth and very fast. Having ridden Hot Rod in temps ranging from -5F to spring slush this is the one that I will recommend.

The structure of your base does get filled in and you don’t scrape and brush it all the way out. I was skeptical of this at first since I have tuned boards for many years. After applying the wax as instructed I can tell you that I was a bit more than surprised the first time I rode it. The board took off like a rocket.

As far as east coast testing, I am not sure if it has been tested out there. Most of the testing has been done by the LCI in CO.

Ink

[AaronG]

Looking forward to trying it out on the West Coast snow.

Hope it works well for the conditions out here.

[bobdea]

I was mostly trying to be constructive in the first post. the second post I was having a bit of confusion.

Like I said, on your website just try to communicate what this stuff is a little more, the average guy would get there and not really know why this costs more than the giant brick of one ball jay or whatever else they found at the local jib shop. I get it but I don't think most people would.

Maybe sell a $10 size, worth 1 or 2 applications. I think more people would jump on that type of portion. myself included.

[philfell]

Just thought I'd point out that you are comparing this wax to old out dated Swix products.

Black Devil is no longer produced, it contained Moly to help with dry friction. Swix has replaced the product with Black Wolf, which has a much better dry friction properties.

Have you really done legit wax testing with your product against HFBW-4 in sub zero degree F temps???

[t.stoughton]

Yes! We have tested in cold temps in real life test at what we believe is the coldest resort in Colorado. Loveland Ski Resort is one of the coldest resorts. In fact I can not think of a colder resort. The glide is tested to the -27c rating. We do not recommend temp lower for this product.

If you can find Derek at SES he will give you a FREE sample. Selling samples sounds like a great idea until you add shipping costs and tax. Compare to Black Wolf or HF4 and we are a bargain at half the price for 10 grams more!

We would encourage you to read the testimonials. Send Oldvolvosrule a note and ask him what he witnessed when D.T. was riding our wax and kept passing him by! Plus if you look we have posted a discount code on Bomber Online in the forum.

[t.stoughton]

I was mostly trying to be constructive in the first post. the second post I was having a bit of confusion.

Like I said, on your website just try to communicate what this stuff is a little more, the average guy would get there and not really know why this costs more than the giant brick of one ball jay or whatever else they found at the local jib shop. I get it but I don't think most people would.

Maybe sell a $10 size, worth 1 or 2 applications. I think more people would jump on that type of portion. myself included.

We will looking to better explaining the value of the premium materials that we use. As for selling samples... by the time you add shipping your not saving much but you have a very good point, we will look into that as an option. Thanks! HRRW

[philfell]

Yes! We have tested in cold temps in real life test at what we believe is the coldest resort in Colorado. Loveland Ski Resort is one of the coldest resorts. In fact I can not think of a colder resort. The glide is tested to the -27c rating. We do not recommend temp lower for this product.

If you can find Derek at SES he will give you a FREE sample. Selling samples sounds like a great idea until you add shipping costs and tax. Compare to Black Wolf or HF4 and we are a bargain at half the price for 10 grams more!

We would encourage you to read the testimonials. Send Oldvolvosrule a note and ask him what he witnessed when D.T. was riding our wax and kept passing him by! Plus if you look we have posted a discount code on Bomber Online in the forum.

That's not what I asked. I asked if you have done serious wax testing head to head against other waxes, such as HFBW-4. Not simply riden the wax around Loveland.

[t.stoughton]

Yes… and here is the rest of the story. Head to head testing is almost impossible due to rider ability and the subjective nature of the glide. We test the glide ability of CH4, CH6, HF4, HFBW4, Toko Cold, KUU, Purl and both Dr.D’s products. We then went back to evaluate cost vs performance and felt that there was room in the wax market for a specific niche of a high quality fluoro product at a reasonable cost. The -5 to -30c is the niche we targeted for product development, we were able to nail -5 to -27c. However, if you need to go below -26c / -27c then we recommend HFBW4. I hope that I have answered you question. You can also see Ink’s comments in this thread. Ink was a former racer and we trust his opinion. Even Ink was surprise when he had to change how to hot wax and the rest of the tuning process. As Ink said, “The board took off like rocket.”

We hope you will decide to try our product, if so please follow the instruction card. This high performance wax responds best when it is applied per the instruction and we tested that many times.

[philfell]

OK so you have tested it against other wax......How? and What were the results???

You can test wax easily. You need a glide track area, timing, a handfull of well taken care of boards (it's easiest to test wax on skies) and several days.

Establish a baseline by prepping all the boards/skies the same and see which ones are faster and which are slower. Do this at least 3 or 4 times to establish a pattern and figure out the percentages each board is behing the fastest board/ski.

Then cycle the boards with the waxes you are testing do 6 or so wax/scrape/brush cycles and then start testing the glide of each and compare to the base line. Do this at least 3 times to note any patterns you find.

This is way better then askin a few riders opinion.

[t.stoughton]

OK so you have tested it against other wax......How? and What were the results???

You can test wax easily. You need a glide track area, timing, a handfull of well taken care of boards (it's easiest to test wax on skies) and several days.

Establish a baseline by prepping all the boards/skies the same and see which ones are faster and which are slower. Do this at least 3 or 4 times to establish a pattern and figure out the percentages each board is behing the fastest board/ski.

Then cycle the boards with the waxes you are testing do 6 or so wax/scrape/brush cycles and then start testing the glide of each and compare to the base line. Do this at least 3 times to note any patterns you find.

This is way better then askin a few riders opinion.

It is very clear that you really know your stuff! We used Taber Industries to do a focused comparison in a controlled enviroment. You can get very detailed wear indices for accurate comparisons. Since what you have described is a very through process but is still influenced by constantly changing snow and weather conditions, the testers, their abilities, and their opinions. No matter how we slice it, there is a subjective influence to this type of testing. It is very difficult to get a tester to make two identical runs on different equipment to measure glide deltas. You can get good estimates, which you have clearly explained in a solid testing process.

We looked at traditional testing methods. We could see the issue highlight above. The real issue is all of this is, it is extremely dynamic. Everything is changing from the conditions, equipment, and to the tester. In addition we stepped back and review the waxing process. We then made a huge par diem shift in the material ratios, additives, process to finish a scrap and brush method for our product. Not any product, only our product. Our product is designed to be applied in a specific friendly manor and that’s why it comes with an easy to follow instruction card.

Our goal was to bring a friendly and forgiving product to market. In skiing and snowboarding experienced riders / racers can tell you if it’s working before you can hit the stop watch. I say, don't believe me! The final results are the consumer and their opinion. So I differ to the testimonials. Dave at HardBooter has requested test samples of HRRW. Your in UT, call him and please try it… You have nothing to loose and maybe I hope a new product to enjoy. Sincerely, ROD-Llc.com

[tahoetrencher]

by comparing static loads on a consistent grade thereby eliminating "rider interface"?

[ursle]

Why (when I go to check out) is tax being charged?

[t.stoughton]

Why (when I go to check out) is tax being charged?

There was a web error which was corrected. The site has been re-published and should be fine. Thanks for the note!

[t.stoughton]

by comparing static loads on a consistent grade thereby eliminating "rider interface"?

Static testing is difficult on the mountain. We contracted with an independent testing laboratory to get unbias results, see above. The instruments used were the Taber Rotary Abraser Model 5155 and the Taber Reciprocating Abraser Model 5900. We requested our samples to be cold soaked in a freezer prior to testing. CA8100 Anti-Chaffing data (5-25 Wear Index) for a reference test process.

[tahoetrencher]

I assume radial abrasion is the same as linear?

[philfell]

You still have not made any referance to the actual results of your test, other then you have gone head to head with other companies waxes, and to ask peoples subjective opinions. And that you are less then half the price of HFBW4.

You are right there is a market for this temp range, most waxes out there don't do a good job here, plus they are so hard that scraping can be a disaster if you don't know what you are doing.

But let us know how you actually compare to other "race" waxes.

[RDY_2_Carve]

You guys should just send Phil a piece so he can let us know his conclusions.

I'm pretty sure he can "test" it better than most and give you honest feedback from the racers.

[t.stoughton]

You still have not made any referance to the actual results of your test, other then you have gone head to head with other companies waxes, and to ask peoples subjective opinions. And that you are less then half the price of HFBW4.

You are right there is a market for this temp range, most waxes out there don't do a good job here, plus they are so hard that scraping can be a disaster if you don't know what you are doing.

But let us know how you actually compare to other "race" waxes.

Phil,

It is clear that we are not going to come to an agreement on Testing, please see my comments on Subjective Testing above. Please note that ROD-Llc’s decision to produce this wax was not an overnight decision. We have been developing and testing waxes for over 3 years. The production version of the wax is the sixth generation of the product.

Here is what you can do to help me provide you with an answer... Could you provide me with manufacturers’ published dynamic coefficient of friction data for the waxes you would like to compare? I have not found any data and that data is the only way to provide an objective comparison. Included with that data needs to be the test conditions (i.e. test method, test temperature, humidity, etc...). With this information we can better address, testing and glide from a neutral position. If providing this information is not possible, I can only recommend you buy a small sample and test in your specific method, condition, or environment. Once again our goal is to bring a high performance consumer friendly product to market that does not break the bank... price per gram.

Sincerely, www.ROD-Llc.com www.HotRodRaceWax.com

[MUD]

Here is what you can do to help me provide you with an answer... Could you provide me with manufacturers’ published dynamic coefficient of friction data for the waxes you would like to compare? I have not found any data and that data is the only way to provide an objective comparison. Included with that data needs to be the test conditions (i.e. test method, test temperature, humidity, etc...). With this information we can better address, testing and glide from a neutral position. If providing this information is not possible, I can only recommend you buy a small sample and test in your specific method, condition, or environment. Once again our goal is to bring a high performance consumer friendly product to market that does not break the bank... price per gram.

I am not trying to stand on Phil's side, BUT.

For something with as many variables as wax you can really only do a qualitative analysis, you will never really be able to get a quantitative number, I do believe that is why producers do not publish one. If they do, it really doesn't mean a whole lot.

You need to do a direct comparison to get any reasonably usable data, your wax vs. the others, your substrate, your surfaces.

[bobdea]

I am not trying to stand on Phil's side, BUT.

For something with as many variables as wax you can really only do a qualitative analysis, you will never really be able to get a quantitative number, I do believe that is why producers do not publish one. If they do, it really doesn't mean a whole lot.

You need to do a direct comparison to get any reasonably usable data, your wax vs. the others, your substrate, your surfaces.

correct, if I remember correctly this is what one of the other smaller wax makers did. paid for the lab time running their wax against others.

not sure which one, maybe it was the one that makes the soy wax or it was dominator, IDK.

either way, if it's good we will figure it out!