Hardboot set up on a powder board

[Neil Gendzwill]

I've 25 years of BC-based heli experience, mostly Wiegele but also CMH and a handful of other operators up and down the place.

Have I mentioned lately that I hate you?

[P06781]

I rode the last 6 years at various snocat operations in BC on hardboots and Radair Tankers. Bring a set of adjustable skipoles in a backpack if you get stuck at a flat spot . Make sure you have a big board that will float and you will be happy.

Jim

[philw]

Would you say most riders/customers at Wiegele's, who are snowboarding, use hardboots or softboots?

Oh, they're almost all on softies, like the rest of everywhere. I last asked a year or so back and the answer from the ski shop there was "95% are riding soft boots". That was true even in the late 1980s. Although they never get any bad hard booters, if you see what I mean.

Have I mentioned lately that I hate you?

All I can say is that I'm not a banker and I do pay my taxes, plus I spent 10 years walking up plastic slopes in the rain to train for this ;-)

I've never personally seen anyone carry folding ski poles, although back in the day CMH used to advise that to snowboarders (but they were pretty snowboarder hostile at the time). I've never had a problem. I never ever borrow a pole from a skier/ guide, but you will see soft-booters doing that sometimes (no shame, some people). It's hard to get out of soft bindings with those straps so they can't paddle so well. I doubt there'd be time to do other than take support from a guide in practice.

On boards, everyone used to ride big boards and I'd not have been happy riding with people carrying short ones. At 62kgs a 168 was about right. That was before the resurgence of tapered boards, so now it's more complicated, with many powder boards being designed to be ridden much shorter. Now I ride 156 boards. Tanker keep up the long board approach: nothing wrong with that of course.

[tbills]

Well Im confident that taking the hardboots to the pow is the right decision...

Thanks for the posts everyone.

To answer the question of an earlier post, Im going to Terrace CA to ride with NEH. They appear to be a solid opperation and have a great reputation. I'll provide feedback once I return.

www.neheliski.com

[P06781]

I've never personally seen anyone carry folding ski poles, although back in the day CMH used to advise that to snowboarders (but they were pretty snowboarder hostile at the time). I've never had a problem. I never ever borrow a pole from a skier/ guide, but you will see soft-booters doing that sometimes (no shame, some people). It's hard to get out of soft bindings with those straps so they can't paddle so well. I doubt there'd be time to do other than take support from a guide in practice.

.

There must be a difference between the heli groups and snowcat groups? I would say that by the end of a 4 day cat trip that more than 50% of boarders will carry a skipole to get in/out of approaches and runouts. It saves a whole bunch of time and allows you to get more runs in. You dont want to be the one bozo who biffs, gets stuck and holds the group up as its worse than being too proud (poles the horror....) Just make sure you have your equipment dialed in prior to going, bring spare parts. Dont buy new gear to try on the trip the first time. Ride it before and get used to it as you are spending lots of money. Use what you are used to at your home area in powder . If its steep all time then try the shorter boards. If its mixed terrian or has a lot of benchs to get through then make sure you got some float or you will be letting all the skiers take first lines to punch lines through..

My next trip is to http://www.icefall.ca/ in March

Jim

[b0ardski]

Collapsible pole are just that collapsible (oh the horror:eek:) if I ever get another pair they will be button lock.

Poles and hard boots ...What planet is that from??

b0ardskia

[P06781]

Collapsible pole are just that collapsible (oh the horror:eek:) if I ever get another pair they will be button lock.

Black diamond flip lock FTW ....

[b0ardski]

Is the fliplock that much better? I push mine pretty hard sometimes, getting up from a fall or emergency correction in the bumps.

[P06781]

Is the fliplock that much better? I push mine pretty hard sometimes, getting up from a fall or emergency correction in the bumps.

Mine have lasted 5 years so far ? However I did bend a set of the orange ones?

[b0ardski]

Definitely easier to bend, especially when custom body molding them in a forward roll:smashfrea

I usually use good old fashioned scotts, like the grip and a good weight to strength ratio that can usually be straitened.

[philw]

There must be a difference between the heli groups and snowcat groups? I would say that by the end of a 4 day cat trip that more than 50% of boarders will carry a skipole to get in/out of approaches and runouts.

Well I ride a fair bit in cats too, but I've never seen a collapsible pole there either. In light & dry snow I'm, not sure how much use poles would really be. I suspect that skiers can get away with stopping on flats because they can shuffle, not because they can push themselves particularly effectively with poles.

If there's someone slow then they'd just get picked up by the tail gunner (rear guide) who'd either push or pull them out of whatever they were in. People usually learn pretty fast.

Stating the obvious it helps if you look at the terrain and work with it. Also a bit of "guide management" is good: you don't want a guide who stops to "regroup" all the time, for example. And if you do have to regroup, they need to be "boarder aware". Also in general they should select runs where there are no long traverses (unless you're in need of taking down a few pegs in which case it's fair game).

[gdboytyler]

I am another all mountain hardbooter that has converted to softboots for powder. I made the switch because softboots felt more forgiving in the powder.

Like Bola, I would also recommend the Dupraz D1.

I went from the Burton Fish 156 to the OSin 4807 168 to the Dupraz D1 5'5".

The Burton Fish was better than the 4807 for tree riding, but the 4807 was alot better on the groom.

The Dupraz matched the Fish for tree riding and the Dupraz was even better than the 4807 for carving on the groom. In fact the Dupraz is the best carving soft boot board I've tried. Well, the Dupraz and the Tanker 172 I use to own were fairly even for soft boot carving.

[b0ardski]

I might gain a little more surfiness and flexibility with softies in powder but the inconvenience of dealing with laces & straps, and the reduction of edging power on sketch, make dealing with an extra set of gear not worth the expense & bother.

If you're willing to give me all that soft squishy lacey gear for free while buying my way onto the heli I'll be happy to promote your company.

ps hardbootin the grocer since '92

[BlueB]

I am another all mountain hardbooter that has converted to softboots for powder.

Traitor! :D

[b0ardski]

it's hard to let go, I still love my worn out grocer:1luvu:

[bobdea]

sketch conditions are specifically why I ride softboots in the woods, for sure in the back country and even inbounds ungroomed I prefer softboots. I will and have ridden plates everywhere and realize that for some applications hard boots blow. just like softies blow for GS......

[lonbordin]

it's hard to let go, I still love my worn out grocer:1luvu:

Haven't worn mine out yet... love that board!

[b0ardski]

pretty obvious I've never been paid to snowboard.

[bobdea]

if anyone wants a grocer replacement I have one, tanker 187. these actually carve well. something grocers and doughboys don't do as well.

did I mention they float better too?

I need cash and will cut deals!

[b0ardski]

If I had the cash I would have already jumped on those scarpas to drive the new atomic twins:biggthump

As for my Grocer(184x24.5w/29t) replacement I'll be looking for a 23-24 waist with long tall powder tips in the 190 range. sounds like a custom

It carved pretty well new, when it still had good spring in the core.

[philw]

At last Philw is now getting disenchanted with the Big B.

For pow boards, look at any of these; Dupraz D1, Virus FLP Custom, Volkl Selecta, Rossignol's Jeremy Jones, Head AK Intelligence, Prior Spearhead-Powstick-Kyber-MFR, APO RR, Nidecker Ultralight, Venture Storm-Euphoria. You will not see any of these boards in most backcountry operations, at least the ones philw goes with.

That's not completely true. Wiegele's usually has a full set of Prior gear, much of which I've ridden but not the ST stuff. Plus of course our local favourite Burton rep provides a bunch of stuff. Not sure about CMH; it's been a while. People bring all sorts of boards to various heli operators; mostly they bring what works.

I've never been "enchanted" with Burton: the brand thing passes me by. I just ride what works.

PMC share the same friendly Burton rep, but actually Fish are the most useful boards there anyway.

It is interesting that the Mullet that has been around for years is just getting reviewed by a hardbooter. Where are the reviews on the Doughboy, The Tanker, etc.? It says a lot about what we are to believe. Don't get me wrong, the Mullet is a good board but it is not on my go to list for deep pow regardless of location.

I review stuff I like, generally. Maybe there are no reviews on those other boards you mention because people don't really like them - who knows?

I did not realize they shipped a reverse cambered Mullet years ago, when was that precisely? The board's half way between a Fish and a Malolo. I think that those all should be on most people's list for deep powder, regardless of location, based on my personal experience. They're designed for it; as a board class they're the most common you'll find in this terrain; they're easy to ride in this terrain; I've personally ridden all of them and they're way better than the trad boards we all used to ride.

[Jon Dahl]

Considering the dollar, it may be worth less! I think some, like myself, are not interested in going back to soft boot setups due to our collective horror stories from the past. I have tried the new stuff out there, at least in a shop environment. Yet to find anything for myself, out of all the stuff touted as the new greats, that I can even stand in, much less ride in. I AM waiting to be converted back, possibly for pow, but it isn't happening.

Now, I don't huck off of cliffs, but I do ride backcountry. As much as I can, and I do ride steep, narrow, scary things when I find them. And pow, outta bounds, honest backcountry even first tracks by myself stuff. And I carve, albiet on a 192 Tanker, but I do none the less. And I will ride the new shapes, rocker, taper, blah blah. When I finally order this season's new stick, it will incorporate those things in a shorter (168) length, in a width suitable for pow.

Anyway, why hardboots? Foot comfort first and foremost. Second, weight. My Dynafit's come in at 2lb 14oz. per foot. They hike well. They accept step-in crampons. They kick steps. I need/use those characteristics. I can wear them all day, even on my snowmobile. Now for a softboot to be considered by me, they would have to match or beat these boots for my use. Ain't happening anytime soon.

[P06781]

Considering the dollar, it may be worth less! I think some, like myself, are not interested in going back to soft boot setups due to our collective horror stories from the past. I have tried the new stuff out there, at least in a shop environment. Yet to find anything for myself, out of all the stuff touted as the new greats, that I can even stand in, much less ride in. I AM waiting to be converted back, possibly for pow, but it isn't happening.

Now, I don't huck off of cliffs, but I do ride backcountry. As much as I can, and I do ride steep, narrow, scary things when I find them. And pow, outta bounds, honest backcountry even first tracks by myself stuff. And I carve, albiet on a 192 Tanker, but I do none the less. And I will ride the new shapes, rocker, taper, blah blah. When I finally order this season's new stick, it will incorporate those things in a shorter (168) length, in a width suitable for pow.

Anyway, why hardboots? Foot comfort first and foremost. Second, weight. My Dynafit's come in at 2lb 14oz. per foot. They hike well. They accept step-in crampons. They kick steps. I need/use those characteristics. I can wear them all day, even on my snowmobile. Now for a softboot to be considered by me, they would have to match or beat these boots for my use. Ain't happening anytime soon.

+ 1 but use Scarpas in the bc and AF700's for resort riding.