bobbeck Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I have Intec heels and OS2 bindings with the long plates. I have tremendous latitude in centering the boot over the board centerline. Where does the boot belong on the frontside and on the backside. I could set it up so that i twist toward the front of the board a bit. Any opinions on this Any articles on this. Thanks, Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Do a search for "Gilmour bias" and you'll find lots of threads discussing the toe or heel side bias of the boot on the binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Right, by moving the rear foot forward on the binding and the front foot rearward on the binding you can uncoil yourself somewhat, just remember to mark the centerpoint of your boots on the bindings after moving them, so you can get an accurate measurement of distance between your feet, if you set you feet to a certain width, as it will have changed:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 the lower your angles the less you need to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 the lower your angles the less you need to do that And the more "gilmour bias" you use, the higher angles you have to run. This is because the board is narrower where your front heel is and where your rear toe is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 And the more "gilmour bias" you use, the higher angles you have to run. This is because the board is narrower where your front heel is and where your rear toe is. right, I think, that's not a huge difference though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 right, I think, that's not a huge difference though. It's significant if you have big enough feet. I don't run g-bias anymore because of it. On a Madd 158 with 18cm waist and big sidecut flare, I actually used reverse g-bias to help keep angles down. IIRC, on that board it was a difference of like 4 or 5 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Ahh, so the question arises When one goes to a narrower board and has to move their angles higher, does one make the distance between the feet smaller or keep it the same, I find that when I'm on thin boards (r-64 f 73+) I'm more comfortable with a slightly narrower stance, but I'm wondering about others, cyborg riders especially :) but anyones opinion would be appreciated. Almost not a thread jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Ahh, so the question arisesWhen one goes to a narrower board and has to move their angles higher, does one make the distance between the feet smaller or keep it the same, I find that when I'm on thin boards (r-64 f 73+) I'm more comfortable with a slightly narrower stance, but I'm wondering about others, cyborg riders especially :) but anyones opinion would be appreciated. Almost not a thread jack Probably if you ride with your front foot flat. As you rotate your front boot more forward, the boot's forward lean moves your front knee further forward. But I use toe lift on my front foot, so I don't change width with angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Ahh, so the question arisesWhen one goes to a narrower board and has to move their angles higher, does one make the distance between the feet smaller or keep it the same, I find that when I'm on thin boards (r-64 f 73+) I'm more comfortable with a slightly narrower stance, but I'm wondering about others, cyborg riders especially :) but anyones opinion would be appreciated. Almost not a thread jack I ride stuff as wide as 25 and as narrow as 14 and find you need a differnt set up to get the most proformance out of each width. Narrow boards require more lateral, so stiff boots and bindings win, Stance width can be narrowed becuase you can then use for and aft to flex the middle of the board, while moving over the nose and tail, Again comfot is key so what width depends on the rider. Also keep in mind the the binding flat spot is increased on narrower boards becuase your high angles cover more distance from to to heel, many riders feel narrowing there stance helps the board bend a smoother arc. Wide Boards, low angles need softer lateral and stiffer for aft and since the platform under the binding is then reduced then, you need to widen your stance to remain balanced, and poweful. also this is were a softer binding helps. At one point I was riding 185cm long 16cm wide all carbon super stiff gear with 70F 65R in TD1s with technica ski boots to make the 18.5 radius work in a gs course(like 94-98) now 10 years later I can make more power and control on a 185cm 20.5cm wide Metal board with a Plate and F2 binders in snowboard boots of my choice, around 50F 45R Jasey Jay, Klug, Bozzeto, and so on have all done the same. Most coaches like to referance current riders on current gear around 55F 50R ish....and will widen or narrow the board with to do so. If you are chosing a narrow board on purpose for transitional speed, reduced chatter etc. then you will find a narrower stance more comfortable becuase of your pelvic angle and hip joint position.. And then to get back from the thread jack, I center my boots so that the toe and heel is over the edge the same amount reguardless of the true boot center, its all about angle with out drag and being able to weight directtly over the edge for my self, Through out the years I have tried all the options including the Gilmour Bias before Gilmour and BOL dubed it as such, Most of us beleave that when you offset toe and heel placement you intraduce a correction in form to negate the offset, so why not adapte the form to make the board work properly... There are of course people with miss alighned bodys that need help, they really need to get in the Gyn and get balanced but you can cheat with misalined gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I center my boots so that the toe and heel is over the edge the same amount reguardless of the true boot center, its all about angle with out drag Agreed. I find in order to do this I often end up with my front boot shifted towards the toe and rear boot shifted to the heel - the opposite of what is known as gilmour bias.... do you? I like almost parallel bindings, maybe 2 degrees forward on the front foot. Through out the years I have tried all the options including the Gilmour Bias before Gilmour and BOL dubed it as such, hehehe... BOL didn't dub it, Gilmour himself dubbed it Gilmour bias. I had to chuckle when I saw that because I had been playing around with it for years. I never thought to call it Michaud bias. Hmm... or maybe Jack Offset? Has a certain ring to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Narrow boards require more lateral, so stiff boots and bindings win, Stance width can be narrowed because you can then use for and aft to flex the middle of the board, while moving over the nose and tail, Again comfort is key so what width depends on the rider. Also keep in mind the the binding flat spot is increased on narrower boards because your high angles cover more distance from to to heel, many riders feel narrowing there stance helps the board bend a smoother arc.If you are choosing a narrow board on purpose for transitional speed, reduced chatter etc. then you will find a narrower stance more comfortable because of your pelvic angle and hip joint position.. Thanks, so specifically for your 14 width board, is your stance narrower than you stance for a 20 width board, and if so by how much? Back on topic, sorta When I mount the 14.1 board I have to anti-jack-offset all the way to keep the toe of the rear boot and the heel of the front boot from rubbing, and the boots are UPZ's to save as much real estate as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I don't currently have a 14 board but when I did, I was running 18 1/2 with ski boots Same for my 16. I rock around 20-20 1/2 depending on board flex and boot stiffness. On wider boards, I rode a reall narrow virus alittle bit ago and mounted it at 19 1/4 with snowboard boots and felt a bit handcuffed, but the bindings were not mine or canted how I would like. I also ride lifted front toe and rear heel no cant on wider boards, and like a flat front and a very little lifted heel at higher angles. But I am kind of a freak and can ride lots of angles and cants with just a run or two to adjust. But if I have to put a board through a race course then I set it up through trial n error. Jack the offset really depends on which boots I am riding, With UPZ its different then with Deeluxe, or Head boots. The UPZ heel is right under the boot heel. Plus since I am a 25.5 some bindings only adjust so much, with TD's I move the heel block as inward as possible and would still like more but thats it.... On F2s I end up with the heel block almost all the way in and the toe block centered. Funny thing is when I change boots I don't just move the toe block, but have to adjust the entire binding. Some times when I am checking out different stuff, like ski boots, or latley the UPZ boot with the ski kit, I think it looks good at home then I make two turn and have to pull out the tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Bordy, i'm trying to learn again, hope you help. Why you ride with some many different boots? or is it due you see need based on board or slope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I don't currently have a 14 board but when I did, I was running 18 1/2 with ski boots Same for my 16. I rock around 20-20 1/2 depending on board flex and boot stiffness. On wider boards, I rode a real narrow virus a little bit ago and mounted it at 19 1/4 with snowboard boots and felt a bit handcuffed, but the bindings were not mine or canted how I would like Thanks, I'm asking others opinions because I had recently sold a cyborg (14.1) but the buyer backed out after another bol'er convinced him that the stance would be to small, I didn't even begin to explain my thoughts about setting up on a thinner board but for future reference thought it should be mentioned, as I may try to sell the board again (max stance for the board is 19.25"), and I think some bad mojo was piled onto the board that I want to peel off. Thread jack over :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hmm... or maybe Jack Offset? Has a certain ring to it... Sorry this really made me LOL! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Bordy, i'm trying to learn again, hope you help.Why you ride with some many different boots? or is it due you see need based on board or slope? You are every where today pokkis...I love it! Since I sell UPZ, Deeluxe, and Head at Hardbooter I think its only right that I ride all the prodect so I can give real feedback and advise based on my experance to customers. I like My UPZ the best for How I ride, but becuase I have ridden them all I have a better understanding of how they all feel and why each one has appeal to differnt riders. Plus i ride each model year to see if there are differnces.... Not to sound Cocky but I also think if I can't break it then not many riders will. Bummer is I can and have broken them all, but at least I can offer suggestion how I fixed the issues. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks Bordy, i totally forgot your another role ;) related that it makes much sense, plus also to get best understanding as rider. Thanks again, yes i'm around so much today mainly you give so good input today :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeck Posted November 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2009 There is quite alot on Gilmour Bias but how much is "a lot" of bias. My board is a Donek FCII so it is like an aircraft carrier. I can dial in an inch of bias and "Boot Out" and "Angles" are still normal. How much Gilmour Bias do bias users use. Is half an inch alot or a little? Thanks all. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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