jonbass Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hi Folks. I used to do a lot of racing and carving back in the days of Burton asymetrical boards and those fluorescent pink Koflachs that Damian Sanders used to wear. I actually owned a pair. The last few years my snowboarding has been reduced to a couple of days a year on a rental freestyle board. That just isn't fun anymore (I end up riding fakie half the time just to challenge myself because the rental board just can't hold an edge at speed) and I'd like to get back into laying down some nice carves and going fast. I was really pleased to recently discover this forum and all the great information. I've been trying to catch up on the changes in the sport (wow! I feel old!) and figuring out what I need. I am looking into used becaue I am realizing that I would probably have to spend $1500 - $2000 to get what I want new. I am not really sure what my budget is. I will see how it goes. I an 36 years old, 225lbs, and about 6' tall. Board - I am looking for a board that is fairly versatile as I doubt my wife will let me keep a quiver of them at home. I will be riding mostly groomed but there is a good possibility that I might do some backcountry/powder as I live in the Yukon and there is a lot of terrain accessible by snowmobile. I also live close to some great terrain in Alaska. I think that the boards that have caught my eye the most are the Prior ATV and 4WD. I am guessing that I don't want to go with a really long board (probably 175 and shorter) because the hills here can get pretty tight. Does anybody have any advice here or a board that would suit? Should I be looking at a longer board because of my weight? Or just stiffer? Bindings - I am a loss when it comes to bindings because they have changed so much. Step-ins came out after I had given up riding seriously. Are they useful and do they add a noticeable amount of weight? Do you have to spend more time maintaining them? I think I am more inclined to get regular plate bindings. The bindings that have attracted my attention are the Bomber TD3s. They seem to be really adjustable and versatile. I am probably least fussy about the bindings as long as they work and are reliable. Boots - I just measured my feet and one is 25.3 cm and the other 25.9 cm. I think this puts me in mondo sizing 25. Correct? It is cold out here so I'm looking for warm boots that are reliable in cold weather and that won't break in -20's celcius. Are there liners that are warmer? If so I am looking for those! :) I like the look of some of the UPZ boots. So to sum up. I'm looking for a versatile board and I'm willing to sacrifice a little performance to be able to ride some powder. Simple, reliable plate bindings and warm boots. I think that my dream set up at this point (with my limited knowledge) would be a Prior ATV or 4WD (160-175), TD3 bindings and UPZ boots. This will probably change in the next few day as I do more research!:D Thanks for taking the time to read this and I value your experienced advice. If you have gear that you think would suit me, let me know. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I don't think Prior recommends the shorter boards for guys your size, but if you wanted to go short you could ask them to stiffen it up for you. I love my step-ins and would never go back. I don't think they're any heavier than conventional, in fact they may be lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Welcome back to alpine, Jon! Good choices of boards, for what you describe as your riding grounds. Keep in mind that ATV is a lot softer then 4WD. A local guy here, of similar body specs as yours, rides a stiffened ATV and it works great for him. You can also look into wide version of WCR metal, it is very similar shape to 4WD with the benefit of titanal construction and decambered nose. Another board you can look at is Dynastar/Osin 3800. 169 would be better size and flex for you. It is a powder board that carves prety decent, however, it will feel pretty wide with your smaller boot size. Burton Speed 168 Wide can work well, as well as F2 CrossX/ElDiablo/Vantage. Then, Volkl Cross 167, if you can find one... I also have a board very similar to 4WD, in mint condition, that might work for you. Your email is disabled, you can email me at: boris at blueb dot biz, or through my user profile. Bindings, well, I would get used TD2s and a suspension kit. They work better with smaller boot sizes then TD3s and you'll save 100-150... No one rides step-ins in our little corner of the world. Most of the modern liners are nice and warm. Eva foam moldable ones (Intuition, Thermoflex) tend to be a bit warmer, though. Pay attention to your foot shape/width if buying shells online as different models fit differently. Have fun choosing the gear! Boris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Thanks for the help BlueB. Great info. I have turned on my email settings but it seems my PM is turned off by the administrator. Probably because I am a new member. If you want to send an email, you should be able to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Your email is still off, maybe it takes a bit to show as active... I forgot to mention Steepwater Steep as a great option, too. Also hard to come by used, as poeple tend to stick to them. Not too expensive new, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Welcome to BOL Jon, I think you will find the community very helpful and a super nice group of folks. You are probably in the upper middle of the age demographics. Plenty here that are your age or older. Check out some of the videos, things have changed yet stayed the same. At least 4 major styles of alpine snowboarding exist , all of which are a blast. You do NOT have to spend a fortune to ride alpine well, but it helps :) As a result of most major snowboard manufactures abandoning alpine snowboard production. The void was filled by a small number of dedicated alpine board builders. Customized boards built by passionate board builders/riders was the result. You are in for a real good time!! Bryan Gear: Board- you are on the right track , both boards you have selected would be good choices to get going again, however, better find a good hiding place because I sense a real full on alpine board is in your near future. Better be real nice to her for Christmas, dig? Boots- Raichle are probably most common, very reasonable on the classifieds. Get what fits and add the BTS Bindings - Hard to go wrong with the TD3s and Step ins. They will spoil you once you get them fine tuned to slide in and out just right. Major difference with the TD2 is the flex. The two dominate plate bindings are very stiff. Catek and Bomber. F2 is more forgiving, extremely popular with racers and lighter riders in particular. TD3s have a major bling factor and well , help support this forum and the company that provides so much support for the free-riding alpine community. My 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarder_Ted Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Welcome Jon. I agree with Neil that the Prior 4WD and shorter ATVs might not be the way to go. Don't get me wrong- they are EXCELLENT boards but I weight 150 lbs and have the 169 4wd and find it soft. Someone your weight, riding at your speed would most likely overpower it. And I don't know if Boris was referring to soft step-ins but plenty of folks ride step-ins on plates. They're a great way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Yeah back in the day when I weighed a bit less than my current 215-220, Chris advised me to go custom, rather than pick a stock Prior board, as it wouldn't be stiff enough for me. Sounds like that advice still holds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Thanks for the info. I definitely want a stiffer board. I am starting to think that I would prefer a full alpine board as opposed to something that is more all purpose. I wish I lived somewhere where I can try some stuff out. I have been watching some carving videos and man I can still feel those carves! I am pretty excited. I have a pair of cross country skating skis and boots that have hardly been used that I think i will sell to finance my new/old addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 My 2 cents... I think your focus should be more on side cut radius rather than board length. As a Clydesdale myself, I believe that once you start pushing the board, anything under 170cm will not have enough effective edge and you will be blowing out turns on a regular basis. SCR has more of an effect on how a board turns than overall length. I rode a 179cm Donek FCI for several years. With an 11.2m SCR, the board could turn on a dime with no effort; I actually sold it to buy something with a bigger SCR, that way I could make big turns with no effort or drive the board hard and make tight turns. I had a 169cm 4wd and sold it for the reason mentioned above. The 4wd has a 10m and 10.5m SCR for the 174cm and 179cm boards, respectively. Both are relatively small and could handle tight terrain easily, while still having enough effective edge to handle your height and weight. I have never ridden an ATV, but based on the specs and boards I have ridden with similar specs, I would stay away from this model for use with hardboots (with softies would be another story). If you are set on buying a 4wd, keep the Donek Axxess 177cm and 182cm in mind as a comparable board from another manufacturer. As far as bindings go, it's about preference. I have had both. I currently ride step-ins because of the ease of getting in and out. The only additional maintenance is occasionally (once a season?!?) disassembling the heel checking the grease in the release mechanism and occasionally greasing the pins from the outside. Know ahead of time that you will need a good stomp pad (i.e. Dakine Spike) to clean off the heel of the boot before trying to step-in; if snow is built up on the boot heel, you will never get in the binding. I hear people complaining about breaking the release cables. I have been using the same set of cables for 7 years and never had an issue. If the binding toes and heels are adjusted to the proper spacing, there is no pressure on the release pins and you will have no issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 I think you are right. Sidecut radius may be the important element that I haven't been looking at. I spent hours last night on the board researching things and I definitely find that my perception of what I need is changing. I am really thinking about what I would use the board for. I remember years ago I wanted a burly mountain board because my freestyle was too soft when I was bombing down the hill. I went out and bought a Avalanche Damian Dagger 175 (It sounds like I was a big Damian Sanders fan but I wasn't :)) and rode it with soft boots with a freestyle stance and it just didn't work for me. In reality, I was comparing the carving of my freestyle board to carving with hardboots. If I had changed my stance and put plate bindings on that board, I probably would have enjoyed that board more. I am trying to be realistic with what I would be using a board for. After researching, I don't think that the ATV would be for me and I'm not sure about the 4WD (I don't think that I knew what it was like). i really do want to be able to carve fairly hard. That being said, the hill here rarely is perfectly groomed and snow conditions aren't all that great. A fair amount of ice shows up and the trails are narrow. A really long unforgiving race board may be too much for me. I am heavier but slower and more careful these days :D. I tended to go to my slalom boards more often than GS and longer boards when i wanted to carve. I never really enjoyed boards that were longer than about 175 back then. Then again technology has changed quite a bit. I might be happier with a snappy shorter race board with the right side cut. I probably sound a little wishy-washy but it is because of the steep learning curve. Thanks for the feedback. I think that i am leaning towards standard plates instead of in-tec just to save some money. I may later go that way but it is a place where I think I can save a bit of money to start. Especially if I end up with more than on board! :D Does anyone have some decent bindings for sale? TD 2's? I was looking at a pair of Deeluxe Suzuka boots 25.5 and UPZ RTRs 25.5 in the classified. Would that be a decent size? I have measured my feet at 25.3 and 25.9 cm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noschoolrider Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Hi Jon, It sounds like you are doing a good job of researching. Another board to consider is a metal Coiler AM (All Mountain) that you can get made with whatever length, sidecut, taper, and stiffness you want. I have tested several of these and they can carve/turn like a slalom board but also ride powder/backcountry very well. I have been an avid backcountry/out-of-bounds rider for about 25 years and I can tell you first hand that the last thing you want in that situation is an equipment failure. So, for that reason I would recommend not getting step-in bindings because they have a higher risk of problems/failure. Also, if you get used bindings then I suggest that you replace all of the bails with new ones. Regarding boots: I only weigh 135 pounds but ride very aggressively, and I found the Deeluxe Suzuka boots to be too soft for carving/racing but nice for riding powder. I also tried the UPZ RTRs two years ago and found that they became extremely stiff in cold weather (even though the advertisement said they won’t) and it took two people to get me out of them on cold days (or I had to unscrew the tongues). In my opinion, the RTR’s are great carving/racing boots but might not have enough range of motion for riding deep powder/backcountry conditions – but you weigh a lot more than me so they might work for you. However, the Deeluxe Indy or Track 700 might be a better choice for what you want to do. Regarding boot size: It sounds like 25.5 should work. However, some people like to squeeze into a smaller size than what the charts recommend, but they usually have low volume/narrow feet. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 This thread makes me proud of the Bomber Community. Pretty much "Textbook" , Smart oldschool alpine rider meets smart current journeymen riders. Well done my friends!! Damn!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 This is a great forum! I have been using forums to research my hobbies for quit a while now (I have a lot of hobbies!) I am a member of a goaltending forum, a unicycling forum and bass and mandolin forums. They are all filled with people who are passionate about their interests. This is the best one by far. Lots of information and and opinions are backed up with experience and reason. My new mission if I choose to accept it is to convince my wife that I need more stuff! ;) What about an Oxygen APX 165? Has anyone ridden them? I guess they are a boardercross type board, stiffer than a 4WD. It might fit the bill to start out. What are some other boardercross boards? Are boardercross board the same or similar to all mountain boards? I like the looks of the Coiler AM. I think the 172 would be great. I don't think I'm ready to get into custom ordering boards yet but I will keep an eye out for one. Cold weather is something i really have to consider when it comes to boots. We have long winters up here in the Yukon but it is often just too cold to ride. The hill here won't open on the weekends if we are getting close to -30 C. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noschoolrider Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Hi Jon, I’m not familiar with the Oxygen APX 165 so I’ll let someone else comment on that one. The ‘real’ boardercross boards that pros ride are more along the lines of an all-mountain soft-boot board shape that utilizes modern alpine race board technology and construction methods, which enables them to hold an edge like an alpine board but handle the jumps and terrain changes found in a boardercross course. Some all-mountain boards are also good for free carving but they usually are not as torsionally stiff as alpine and boardercross boards, which is better in powder/soft-snow and in the park, but when they are fully pressured in a hard carve on firm snow they tend to twist off and lose edge hold. In my opinion, the metal version of the Coiler AM is more like a modern high-end alpine board with a tip and tail that work well in all-mountain/all-terrain conditions. There a lot of different types and brands of used carving boards that you can have fun on while you research and save up for the perfect board – for now you should focus on finding the right flex/stiffness, sidecut, and length for your weight and riding style/terrain. A thermoflex type of boot liner is usually the warmest for super cold conditions and you’re going to want some hard/cold snow wax for your board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I like the AM Coiler. The metal one is stiffer? The metal boards are new to me too. Is this always referring to the topsheet? I am assuming that it makes the board stiffer and prevents torsional twisting? I have seen the term titanal used as well. What is this? I also have a question about bindings. When people post pictures of them, they are usually spread out in pieces. I am trying to figure out what all the pieces are. There is some sort of rubber interface between the board and binding used for dampening vibration. Then you have cants if you want to lean the bindings in. Some sort of aluminum/steel ring that mounts to the board and stays on the board that allows you to adjust the angle of the stance. Finally the bindings themselves held down with the four or three hole(Burton) plates. Is this correct? Do most people buy extra sets of the rubber parts and aluminum rings if they have extra boards and just move the bindings between the boards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 "Metal" and Titanal boards, both, have aluminum aloy sheets, normally from 7000 series. Latest generation has the top sheet over metal to protect it. They are mostly softer in longitudinal direction then glass boards, but better torsionally, resulting in easier ride and better edge hold. They are damper too. Often these new materials are paired with "new school" side cuts and nose profiles for even better ride. TD2 and TD3 bindings have base wich consists of elastomer gasket, cant plate and centre disk. On top of that you have binding plate itself with toe/heel blocks and bails. Base kits are available as "2nd board kits" which you can mount on anothe board and just transfer the top. TD2 has thinner elastomer then TD3, but you can add "suspension kit" so you end up with the same thing. Look through Bomber online store, there are good pics of all that... Snowpro and F2 bindings come with just thin gasket under and cant/lift is done by the shims in between base plate and toe/heel blocks. F2 is favorite among the racers. Burton and Ibex come without cant/lift options and you have to buy extra cant plate that goes under. Somwhat thin bails on those... Catek bindings are infinitly adjustable but somewhat complicated. Look at pics on Catek site. Their bases have smallish footprint and were famous for braking the 1st generation of metal boards with exposed aluminum tops. I've got your email, will send you pics later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noschoolrider Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Just because a board has metal in it does not mean it is stiffer – a metal board can be made very soft or very stiff just like non-metal boards (I have actually tested metal boards that were too soft). Some metal boards have a metal top sheet and some have a protective top sheet over the metal and some metal boards have two sheets of metal in them (one above and one below the wood core). Titanal is a high strength aluminum alloy (it does not contain any titanium) and it's considered to be the best for metal board construction. There are several threads/articles about the advantages of metal boards, which include superior torsional rigidity/stiffness, better edge hold, and improved absorption/dampness especially when used with a layer of rubber. The following link shows an example of metal construction http://donek.com/tech2.htm#metal (note: I think Donek now uses rubber with all of their sheets of metal). For some pictures/examples of complete bindings go to http://www.bomberonline.com/store/bindings/index.cfm and for parts go to http://www.bomberonline.com/store/bindings/accessories.cfm Yes, bindings use dampening pads, and they usually have an angle adjustment and cant system that is unique to that brand of binding. Burton is still the only board that uses the 3 hole pattern, which also limits the choice of bindings for those boards. For all other boards, you will need bindings that use a four hole pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Thanks for the info. I remember when Burton came out with the 3 hole pattern. I never liked it. I'm kind of glad that the industry never adopted it. I am starting to get a better picture of things now. I really appreciate the help. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 So I bought a board. An Oxygen APX 165. Thanks Boris. Can't wait to ride. I came to the realization that I wouldn't be getting just one board. I figure I will know better what I want once I start riding again. This board will get me out and I can ride a lot of different terrain. When I used to ride pretty seriously, I had 6 or 7 boards in a season, 3 or 4 at a time. I doubt I will go back to soft boots though. I'm not sure about boot fit. I want to try on boots but but I doubt there is a pair of hardboots within 500km of here. I was thinking of going to the local ski shop and trying on boots. I'm not saying that I'm buying ski boots!:D I just want to get a feel for mondo sizing before I buy snowboard boots. Do they fit similarly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Jon, check out the boot sizing article on Bomber, then do the reading (Bol searches) to narrow it down. It is not unusual for a guy to end up buying and selling a boot or two to get it down. Boots as you well know are the probably the most difficult yet the most important piece of equipment when it comes to hardbooting!! Good luck in your quest!! If you come south, please let me know, I have a variety of gear and you could get a pretty good sampling of what it out there. Bryan Boots - I just measured my feet and one is 25.3 cm and the other 25.9 cm. I think this puts me in mondo sizing 25. Correct? It is cold out here so I'm looking for warm boots that are reliable in cold weather and that won't break in -20's celcius. Are there liners that are warmer? If so I am looking for those! I like the look of some of the UPZ boots. Comment: For a big dude, you are fortunate to have smaller feet, comes in handy in hardbooting!!!! Tend to think going sightly bigger shell is good for insulation space/factor - I would not want to give up fit though. The boot heater systems are getting MUCH better too these days. Some of the guys here at BOL might be able to give you advice on them. I think if you do a search it has come up before. Getting a shorter, softer, turny board to start is a smart choice, inspires confidence and comes around quick. With your need for speed, it won't be long before you are sampling the longboards. Trust me :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Jon, is it time to give back yet? What old gear do you have all dusty in the rafters? Trade for new gear? How about some photos of you in day-glow during your race days??;) Come on , we know you have them What subjects do you teach?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 For the record, I do have a pair of Raichle AF600s in size 25.5. Original liner, etc. etc. They've been used about 25-30 times, max. No joke! They were slightly too small for me when I bought them new, and I used them on-and-off over about 2 seasons (from 2002-2003). I ended up running into a slightly larger pair of used AF700s for reaaaaaalllllly cheap, and rode those from that time on. So the AF600s had literally been sitting in one of my parents' closets for about 5 years until my mom found them last year and told me to take them or she'd throw them out! Well now they're sitting here and lo and behold, they're still too small for me. :D I can provide pics if you're interested. No idea why I haven't gotten around to selling these yet... good thing you reminded me, haha. As most people on here will tell you, they're actually not that much different from the modern Deeluxe hard boots. greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I still ride AF600s , and love them!!! Wish they were my size!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 Jon, is it time to give back yet? What old gear do you have all dusty in the rafters? Trade for new gear? How about some photos of you in day-glow during your race days??;) Come on , we know you have them What subjects do you teach?? Ha Ha. I don't think I have much from the old days. I think there is maybe a box at my mom's with some arm and leg armor. There used to be a pair of the old white Burton race gloves with the zip off armor but I don't know if they got thrown out (They had holes in them). I think I saw an old black, pink and purple Kemper board bag kicking around too. That stuff might not be around though as my mom has been cleaning house. I sold the old Koflach's and Burton Freestyle boots with the neoprene liners and all the boards. My last year of riding I worked at a snowboard shop and we got board to use but had to give them back at the end of the year. I think i do have some pictures. I try and dig them out. I am a music teacher at an elementary school. I also freelance a bit as a musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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