tdifan_2003 Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Well, as the topic says. I am trying to get a sense what people here do. I am about to get very much into tuning my boards. I haven't done much before, I admit. Small dings, small P-tex fillings, etc. I am not racing either. Now I discovered Tognar . WOW! It's really an eye opening. Before I really jump into it, it's not cheap to get even the basic tools, I would like to get a sense what is reasonable to buy and what would be an overkill. And here comes the question. What tools of all are the absolutely-must-have for home snowboard tunung. For starters - true bars? I did not look too much, but on first glance - there are not too many wide enough even for OUR snowboards (~19 cm waists) Next - beveling. What beveling tools do you use - fore base and edges. Beveling tools versus guides. What are the most popular angles in case one decides to get separate tools (not combo, adjustable for the bases) Files - what are good brand versus price. I am not even starting the waxing topic..................yet Tell us what you think . Millen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 The OneBallJay Tuning guide is very well written for the beginner tuner' I have a lot of their tools as well as religiously using their wax for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Prosharp adjustable side bevel guide. Skivisions base flattener. Good 4" moonflex diamond stones. True Bar. I use a short knife edge truebar from Tognar. For skis but it works well enough for my purposes. At the time that I ordered it, they did not offer the 14" long version of the square true bar, if they had that is what I would have gotten. http://www.tognar.com/base_flattening_structuring_tools_scrapers_ski_snowboard.html Dominator all temp zoom graphite, for base prep/penetration waxing. Dominator hyperzoom high flouro wax on top for a faster, more durable wax job. All available at tognar.com Note: I don't bevel my base edge, so my tool recommendations are based upon the preference for flat base edges. If you like to bevel your base edge, you would need to add something to the mix to do that for you. I used to be a fan of the skivisions side/base bevel tool, but the stones it uses are not nearly durable enough, and become useless over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istvan Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Fast, precise, efficient and easy to use: http://www.tooltonic.com/default.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I would get a decent iron that has adjustable temp control for waxing. A vise for your workbench. I use a plastic bevel guide that has adjustments in .5 deg increments so you can go from 0-5 deg on either the sides or base. It came with a mill file and I bought a set of diamond stones that fit in it. Can't remember the name off hand but it was orange plastic and made in Germany. Other tools you'll need are some brushes to remove wax and a good scraper. Just started tuning my own stuff and it is a little time consuming but will pay for itself pretty quickly. Nice to constantly have slicky base with sharp edges. You can also play around with different settings when you got your own stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I have: A guide for doing side edge bevels, with a very fine stone on it. I occasionally give my board a couple quick passes just to keep things sharp. For any other edge work, I'll go to a shop. A cheap iron from Toko, and a bunch of cheap wax, plus some One Ball Jay Summer Slush wax. I'm not at all picky about wax in general, but the Summer Slush stuff works great for the late season. Two scrapers (30cm and ~10cm). Two hand brushes which I never use. What a pain in the ass. A drill-mounted brush. Before I got this, I would do a quick scrape and the snow would take care of the rest during the first couple runs. That worked fine. The drill brush was a waste of money, but it's kinda fun, if I have time on my hands. (Keep in mind, I don't race, so I don't mind losing that little bit of performance for the first couple runs while the excess wax gets stripped off.) File from a hardware store for detuning. I know some people here don't detune, but when approaching jumps I really can't stand the hooky-ness of a board that is not detuned. A metal ruler for checking base flatness. Two sawhorses to put the board on while I wax. I think that's everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csquared Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 #1 Bench - you must have a secure way of holding the board both base up and edge up for tuning. Anything that wobbles means the files are not able to run true. In addition, you need to hold the board firmly against the pull of the file or the wax scraper which both require considerable pressure. After looking at some of the products on the market, I built my own bench out of plywood to fit to on a heavy duty collapsable saw horse and equipped it with adjustable toggle clamps to hold the board steady in both planes. I also have a pair of adjustable arm lamps mounted to the horse so I can see what's going on. #2 Edge file guides - 90 and 88 degrees; I use KUU products. Their guides will fit a file blank, a wet stone, or a diamond stone (yes, you have to run all of these true as well). #3 Wax iron - I have a very old non-steam clothing iron that I picked up at the thrift shop for $5. After some temperature experimentation it works passably. However, if you are planning to use fluoro waxes, this would be a bad idea because smoke from burning same is toxic and the thermostats on clothing irons are not as closely regulated as real wax irons. #4 Gummy stone - I use a KUU product. The gummy stone consists of carborundum grit in a medium soft rubber binder and is useful for detuning at the tip and tale of the board (a must if you don't like overly aggressive shovel initiation or late turn releases) #5 Wet stone - useful for taking out burrs, hard spots, rust spots. Also useful for final polish on the side edges using the file guide. #6 Flat file - generally the amount you spend will be repaid by the durability of the file. However, don't feel that you have to buy someone's special tuning file because any good quality machinist's file will do the same thing. I don't touch the base edges of my boards much because you can't really sharpen from the based without taking off base material for the width of the board (to keep it flat). Better to just get a base grind once every year or two. #7 Base file guides - If you using off-flat base edge angles you would need these. I only use them for the kids' freeride boards. I ride only flat base angles and use a 90 edge. I have a set of plastic sleeves that fit over standard files and run on the ptex about 2 1/2" from the edge; KUU - about $5 #8 Citrus Base Cleaner - gotta clean off the old wax and other crap before you put on anything new. #9 Wax scraper - don't buy the 10" long type unless you are King Kong - you'll never get enough bite with that edge length to take the wax off. The standard 5" guys will do and plexi scrapers are nice because they won't gouge your base easily; stay away from the stainless scrapers unless you have a good hand with a file for sharpening and deburring them (unless of course you only intend to use the scraper as a true bar which is sometimes useful). #10 Wax Texture Brush - Toko hand brush with combination of nylon and metal bristles is useful for restoring structure to the base and for digging wax out of the structure of the base in higher temp conditions. #11 True Bar - buy one of those stainless steel rulers that are sold at office supply or art stores, they are reasonably true for our purposes. Alternatively, the 10" stainless steel base scrapers are perhaps more useful as a true bar than a base doctoring tool. Not used often except to check other people's boards and used stuff that comes my way. #12 Other Tools That Come in Handy - T wrenches for hex socket drive binding screws; a children's toy magnetic wand (with good sized magnets in it) that I use to pick filings off the board where they tend to fall into openings in bindings; lab coat (okay, this is a little nerdy but I just happened to have one) to keep filings out of clothing; magnetic broom (home depot) to pick filings off the floor so they don't travel around the house; metric hex socket drives to fit rechargeable drill / driver (nice for mounting and stripping bindings); a Sharpie to blacken edges where I am not sure what angle they have been filed to (helps to see where the file is taking material off). That was way too exhaustive. Did I forget anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 My tuning kit consists of numerous screw drivers and hex drivers for bindings and such Iron and a soldering station power controller 2 sumi-e weights for true bars numerous plastic and metal scrapers Lots Green scrubbies Dakine 88º file guide Burton 89º file guide an auto body file 2 oneballjay files a steel brush (normally used for cleaning files) a brass brush 2 horse hair brushes 3-4 stones 2 gummy stones snowboard vice lots of onebaljay wax (because it smells so good) and some cheap bulk wax for storage wax remover (only used for cleaning tools not my board) I have everything in a rubber made bin in the off season it's nearly all out on my tool bench right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmagvette Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I have been ski racing for an embarrassing number of years, something stupid like 29 years. I have owned too many bevel guides to mention up until I discovered the "Side of Beast" file/stone holder. (let google search for "Side of Beast"). It is stump stupid simple to use. I put a 3 deg. side bevel of everything I own otherwise I forget (3 sets of skis, two boards) and a 0.5 deg base bevel except for high speed equipment which gets 1.0 deg. I use the cheap SWIX base bevel guides and diamond file only. Use the 100 mm SVST 220 grit diamond file. The moonflex diamond files are great, but the SVST diamond file is long enough to use in the base bevel guides. Also you can get replacement abrasive for the tool. I do use the finer grit moon flex stones for fine polishing, but only when I know the course will be glare ice - like after it rains. Be sure to lubricate your diamond files/stones or you will trash them. Some use water and a little bit of soap, I prefer a 50/50 mixture of water and denatured alchohol. Soak the stone and keep the edges wet at all times. Use a stiff tooth brush to keep the diamond file clean. For hard to remove crap stuck in the file, use a fine brass brush - and plenty of your favorite lube. As far as the true bar thing goes...I use it to tell me when it is time for a bottom grind. Find a trustworthy race shop and let them do a base grind and structure. Your board will come back dead flat and all you need to do is set the base bevel. Do not let the shop touch your side bevel otherwise you will need to reset it to what your bevel tool believes 3 deg is. At the risk of rambling on...once the edge bevels are set, I never use a metal file unless the edges get a major ding. The 220 SVST diamond file removes enough edge materal to keep things razor sharp. Ditto comments on drill brushes. If you are not racing, use as hard a wax as you can for the conditions and do a light scrape while the wax is still slightly warm. Let the snow finish all the scraping for you. You might want to brush out the middle of your board if you find that the structure is not cleaned out by riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_roboteye Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 There was a thread quite recently about this same topic. Instead of retyping the whole thing again, here is a link to the thread. My tuning routine is about as barebones and simple as it gets, but it will still give you very good performance. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24672 I agree stongly with comments regarding the use of diamond stones. Once your edge angles are set with a file, you won't need the file again, except to touch up big rock dings. You can do diamond stone touch ups on your edges with a side bevel guide without removing a lot of material. A thorough touch up will only take about five minutes. It's a good idea to use tape of some kind to protect your base from grit / filings. later, Dave R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdifan_2003 Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Thank you all. Wow, so much info in no time. I am getting the idea. Now I'll have to do some research about tool prices. I think, with my boards + 2 skiers at home - it would pay off the money I spend on tools . Millen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_roboteye Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Now I'll have to do some research about tool prices. I think, with my boards + 2 skiers at home - it would pay off the money I spend on tools .Millen After the initial cost of buying the tuning items, the cost is very minimal, and you shouldn't have to replace anything for many years unless you lose it or someone borrows and doesn't return when you need it. later, Dave R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Just remember to buy a file card to keep you files sharp and clean. Will make them last a lot longer and cut better. Best to use the diamond stones to sharpen though. They will cut less material off and will take a bur off that has been case hardened by hitting a stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhaskins Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Plus Simple Green and a 20 ft by 20 ft heavy canvas (not plastic) drop cloth to use under it all, makes cleanup a snap. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shrederjen Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 To keep it simple, Get a good iron (doesn't need to be expensive) The same wax (can be expensive) I use www.racewax.com and a good diamond stone. You really should not need to file away metal, too often, unless you run over rocks... Which, we all do, once in a while. Then, it may be time for a stone grind. oh yea, and a green scrubby pad! I also, keep a bar of rub-on Dominator zoom wax in my backpack, or jacket, just incase I was off on the wax temperature. That stuff does miracles! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 probably the best tuning kit I can think of is either a bottle or 2 of some nice booze, a case of beer, or a bag of weed...make friends with a local shop, give them one or all of those items, and you have unlimited tuning for the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 http://www.svst.com/categories3.aspx?Category=7c396339-57aa-461f-9e48-2a41ea778b34 I have heard this from a couple of guys that tune here in town. One guy set a world speed record for a period of time. The other still tunes for the Olympic SBX team, went to the Olympics etc.....and he does wax testing for Swix or one of the big guys in wax. So I don't know myself, this is from those guys. But they claim that the green scrubbies leave micro particles embedded in the base that slows you down. I don't like slow. Buy the good pads if possible. For the OP: I also have my bases flattened once a season and then I do all the hand tune stuff myself. Edge and base guides in 91 and 92 are all I need. I do use several stones to get the really smooth edge. 200, 300, 400, 600 gives me the butter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdifan_2003 Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 To keep it simple, Get a good iron (doesn't need to be expensive) The same wax (can be expensive) I use www.racewax.com and a good diamond stone. You really should not need to file away metal, too often, unless you run over rocks... Which, we all do, once in a while. Then, it may be time for a stone grind. oh yea, and a green scrubby pad! I also, keep a bar of rub-on Dominator zoom wax in my backpack, or jacket, just incase I was off on the wax temperature. That stuff does miracles! :) I totally second the www.racewax.com suggestion. I just finished talking with Marc there. He is a very nice guy and spent tons of time answering all my questions regarding choice of tools. Hie prices are excellent. On top of that - he has additional great discounts if you subscribe to the his website. I am very happy I started my little quiver with tools. Thank you everybody for the excellent tips and advises Millen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfinsmiley Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 probably the best tuning kit I can think of is either a bottle or 2 of some nice booze, a case of beer, or a bag of weed...make friends with a local shop, give them one or all of those items, and you have unlimited tuning for the season I`ll be comin` around to your place to get tuned up Gleb ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I`ll be comin` around to your place to get tuned up Gleb...... Come on by! Plenty for everyone.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippermon Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I found all of my tuning gear here. www.canadianabc.com I found all of my tuning information here www.alpinecarving.com/tuning.html Well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Swix Race Pro Files, the absolute best you will ever use. Will last multiple seasons, these cut so smooth you hardly need to use a stone afterwards. A couple passes with the medium, then the fine, lightly stone and your done. http://www.swixsport.com/eway/default.aspx?pid=278&trg=MainPage_6117&MainContent_6179=6117:0:24,2744&5463=6118:2&MainPage_6117=6138:44987::0:6118:32:::0:0 No need for a true bar, you can tell when you wax if your base is flat or not. I use the beast base bevel guide. and just the economy Swix side edge file guide. You should have a course and x-course diamond stone (medium if you have the budget, but not mandatory to start with), gummy stone, sidewall planner, metal scraper, plastic scraper, scraper sharpener (or make one), panzer file (a long one, many uses comes in very handy), clamp for the file guide. Get an iron produced by a wax company, they cost more for a reason. I use pretty much all Swix products. Swix has won more World Cup medals than any other wax company because their stuff tends to be the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I've become a fan of Ray's Way stuff here http://www.alpineskituning.com/ I start off with a good grind, 1 bevel on the base, 2 on the side. Then use the side edging tool to keep the edges sharp. You can make your own abrasive loops....I run 320 as my final but you have options and they're cheap! http://www.alpineskituning.com/raysway.side.beveler.htm Then rub on some universal wax, reef it in with the wax whizard http://www.alpineskituning.com/raysway.waxwhiz.htm then I like to hit it with a rotobrush on an electric drill but nearly any brush will do. Once in awhile I hot wax...but this is a quick and easy way to make the edges sharp and the base run fast. There are lots of ways to skin this cat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirk109 Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Swix Race Pro Files, the absolute best you will ever use. Will last multiple seasons, these cut so smooth you hardly need to use a stone afterwards. A couple passes with the medium, then the fine, lightly stone and your done.http://www.swixsport.com/eway/default.aspx?pid=278&trg=MainPage_6117&MainContent_6179=6117:0:24,2744&5463=6118:2&MainPage_6117=6138:44987::0:6118:32:::0:0 No need for a true bar, you can tell when you wax if your base is flat or not. I use the beast base bevel guide. and just the economy Swix side edge file guide. You should have a course and x-course diamond stone (medium if you have the budget, but not mandatory to start with), gummy stone, sidewall planner, metal scraper, plastic scraper, scraper sharpener (or make one), panzer file (a long one, many uses comes in very handy), clamp for the file guide. Get an iron produced by a wax company, they cost more for a reason. I use pretty much all Swix products. Swix has won more World Cup medals than any other wax company because their stuff tends to be the best. Your kidding, Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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