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serated edge


Gecko
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while cruising the buyer guide of TransWorld Snowboarding (it was a gift from my unknowing family) I came across an ad for the new Libtech Magna Traction board with a serated edge...like the Flamberge swords of old. It has 7 bumps in the edge between the feet...I have always thought that the edge was supposed to be one long arc...this thing is a true compound radius sidecut with 5 .3M radius arcs added into the mix. I certainly wouldn't want to tune the thing, though I doubt it would ever get tuned...this thing screams jibber board... first lunchtrays now after a bunch of other bad ideas we have the serated board

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Originally posted by Gecko

while cruising the buyer guide of TransWorld Snowboarding (it was a gift from my unknowing family) I came across an ad for the new Libtech Magna Traction board with a serated edge...like the Flamberge swords of old. It has 7 bumps in the edge between the feet...I have always thought that the edge was supposed to be one long arc...this thing is a true compound radius sidecut with 5 .3M radius arcs added into the mix. I certainly wouldn't want to tune the thing, though I doubt it would ever get tuned...this thing screams jibber board... first lunchtrays now after a bunch of other bad ideas we have the serated board

Serated edges would be much worse for jibbing than carving I think, because there would be more stuff to catch you edge on doing a boardslide. If you want to jib, you want recessed edges, not serated edges sticking out just waiting to catch on someone. The Burton Dominant Slick is exactly the type of board you were referring to... and I agree that it's a waste of money, because a real jibber doesn't need "training wheels" like that.

I'm slightly skeptical, but in theory a serated edge *could* work, especially if it's just between the feet, since that middle of the board doesn't really flex much at all for a stiff carving board. I assume they actually tested the technology before selling it, so I figure it must be at worst ineffective. It's really not worth debating until it comes out and someone reviews it I guess. I figure they are probably aiming for more open-minded freeriders, who are more interested in performance than looks and won't just dismissed innovation because it looks weird.

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a few Quotes from the add that I remember...since I threw the magazine away after less than a day

"least used part of the edge"

"Turn's like a skateboard"

"makes ice feel like powder" or shreds ice I'm not sure

"Stable in an icey pipe"

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it turn ice into powder, its easier to ride and that it makes you board into a skateboard

is that a good thing?

does that mean if I hit some choppy snow I go flying off my board and get all scrapped up

http://www.lib-tech.com/0405/01.htm

sounds like a gimmick to me

this is the same company that forgot which hardware would work with their own boards

they claimed that full wrap edges are bad

that six inches of plastic (in place of wood) in the tip and tail was better

that caps are more durable and hold a edge better

hmmm

they have since change theire minds about some of that stuff but at least as far as the way they construct their boards it was just gimmicks that were also cheaper to produce

but they could charge the same price

low end boards at high end prices

yippee

they always have cool graphics though and thats the most important thing who would want to ride one of those ugly Coilers with blue flames or those Doneks with the solid colors or you choice of graphics yuck

these guys are the targeted market for jib tech

post-109-141842198196_thumb.jpg

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Originally posted by bobdea

they always have cool graphics though and thats the most important thing who would want to ride one of those ugly Coilers with blue flames or those Doneks with the solid colors or your choice of graphics yuck

these guys are the targeted market for jib tech

Now that's funny.:D Unfortunately when it comes to the retail market sex...i mean graphics sell. Well maybe a little of both. All the boards with half naked girls, guns and skulls sell out first. Most people buy for looks then price and finally quality. The only way to get folks on a high quality made in the USA board is either have them do an on snow demo or spruce up the graphics. While statistically carvers are a way different demographic; if better graphics put more hardbooters on hill wouldn't you be happy?

________

RC171

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Originally posted by bobdea

it turn ice into powder, its easier to ride and that it makes you board into a skateboard

is that a good thing?

does that mean if I hit some choppy snow I go flying off my board and get all scrapped up

http://www.lib-tech.com/0405/01.htm

One thing that did catch my eye that didn't entirely look like a gimmick (aside from the marketing name) was the basalt fiber weave (aka Golden Fleece) that they use in lieu of fibreglass. IF it really is about twice as strong as fibreglass, you could use less of it and get a lighter board. The company claims that it also has superior dampening properties, which I don't personally know... but I do recall some board builders (if you have experience in board building, please fill me in) complaining that they aren't super happy with the way fibreglass flexes (compared to wood in particular) so maybe it is about that same.

Any thoughts (material scientists)? I mean we now have tri-axial and quad-axial fibreglass weaves? I know graphite is really expensive... but what about other materials?

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I am not sure about the marketing business, and what Lib_Tech may or may not be using for driving the sales. What I will say in defence is that Lib-Tech has always been a snowboard company, they still make boards in the USA, and I have seen little to make me think Mike Olson is anything short of inventive , colorfull and a man of his own mind. Most snowboard companies are now owned or operated by huge ski companies and almost all are now cranked out by mega factories in China. PS. Lib-Tech builds one hell of a longboard series too. Doubt they make allot of money on that line. Probably supported by the fact that Mike and good ole boys and Lib still rip the Pow at Mt Baker when possible. So, the cutting edge of edge design may be wiggling or it might be just another blip on snowboards historical radar screen. Time WILL tell. Enjoy, Bryan

PS The Shalom board grahics below where created as a back-lash to the ever increasing production of snowboards created by ski companies . Specifically Salomon. At the time, the ski companies that once thumbed their noses at "Knuckle Draggers" were ramping up production of snowboards as a way to make money and save the ailing ski industry , as they say , "The rest is history".

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http://www.lib-tech.com/0405/01L.htm

You old school guys definitely have to check out the link above.

Look for the Richie Head. Going back to the early "Fireman Daves" or FD graphics. I wonder if it will have the table cloth top sheet texture?

PS, yes these boards did have 1/4-20 inserts. An example of Mike's individualism and willingness to go his own way. May not have been a great marketing move but good example of his not following the "Norm" either. I respect that. Historically Lib-Tech has been willing to test the edge. Good luck to them.

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Originally posted by www.oldsnowboards.com

I am not sure about the marketing business, and what Lib_Tech may or may not be using for driving the sales. What I will say in defence is that Lib-Tech has always been a snowboard company, they still make boards in the USA, and I have seen little to make me think Mike Olson is anything short of inventive , colorfull and a man of his own mind. Most snowboard companies are now owned or operated by huge ski companies and almost all are now cranked out by mega factories in China. PS. Lib-Tech builds one hell of a longboard series too. Doubt they make allot of money on that line. Probably supported by the fact that Mike and good ole boys and Lib still rip the Pow at Mt Baker when possible. So, the cutting edge of edge design may be wiggling or it might be just another blip on snowboards historical radar screen. Time WILL tell. Enjoy, Bryan

I think most of the posters here are more into bashing the freestyle marketing image used in ads to attract young snowboarders. With a very strong negative opinion on Transworld magazine. Marketing people tend to dismiss people outside of the 15-35 male consumer group - which is the majority of people on BOL. Considering the fact that the 35+ hardbooters here tend to be voracious purchasers of snowboard equipment and gear, that's probably a bad thing... then again... who here would buy a snowboard just because it had a photo of an awesome alpine carver tearing it up?

=========================

The only thing a non-conformist hates more than a conformist is another non-conformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standard of non-conformity.

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I would have to aggree with your accessment! I have to admit, I truely savor the fact that "Alpine Snowboarding" is out of the main stream. When I started snowboarding (WARNING, here comes, blah,blah,Old, blah) most people thought you were "NUT" to even consider bolting yourself down on a slab of plywood. It was not NORMAL. Snowboarding was seen as "Crazy, Rebelious, Dangerous) Heaven forbid!!! I recall a time when IF I saw another snowboarder on the hill, we were instant "Bros" and likely would ride together the rest of the day. It was" What are you on? , where did you get those "Rad" bindings? What do you think of those new boards without swallowtails??" Sound familiar? Good on you for KNOWING what works, what is fun and enjoying the uniqueness of our methods of sliding. It was not that long ago that a major magazine labelled snowboarding as the "Worst New Sport" . They can and are often wrong. Follow the flow of what turns your crank. Be open to any and all new ideas until proven "wrong" by your own trial. Carve it up!!

Alpine snowboarders are the Rebels of todays snowboarding. Going against the "NORM" for the purest reasons. Enjoy it. Bryan

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I was working in a shop for awhile and I epoxied the noses and tails of so many Gnus and Libs back together it was sickening the mervin manufacturing people just did not get the idea that having a cap open up at the end of the running length with a big six inch peice of plastic in there to make a sandwich at the nose and tail is not good its a construction that is prone to delaming

I guess epoxy doesnt bond plastic and fiberglass together well

some of the K2 boards from the mid 90s did this too but not nearly as much

I had a dough boy and they do ride nice I will give them that

but a longboard is not going to take as much as a beating a jib stick in most cases

so its a bit more exceptable for the longboards but still a bit behind the times

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Originally posted by www.oldsnowboards.com

Alpine snowboarders are the Rebels of todays snowboarding. Going against the "NORM" for the purest reasons. Enjoy it. Bryan

I agree that alpine snowboarders are the "new" rebels as they are still generally ignored, neglected, insulted now, while freestyle snowboarders have been accepted by the mainstream (aside from a few biased purist skiiers and jealous alpine riders).

Yet people tend to want it both ways... they want to be rebels railing against conformity, but they also want to be universally accepted as being "cool" and emulated. I find the freestyle bashing silly, because it really isn't "freestyle snowboarding" that's the problem, but the bandwagon mainstream populace that's the problem since whenever someone goes mainstream, it always loses some of the appeal that attracted the pioneers to it in the first place. I mean if the roles were reversed (as they might have been in the past, but that was before my time)... you could see the same thing happening to alpine snowboarding... freestyle snowboard being the rebels, against the mainstream alpine culture that's all into speed and carves.

It's the preoccupation with the "other" group that I find bothersome... why such insecurity as to feel the need to make fun of them all the time? I thought there were several things silly about freestyle snowboarding when I was very into the sport itself (would have friends who competed, when to watch the US Open, X-Games, etc). I left that world for a few years and just have been riding with friends (mixture of freeride and freestyle) and sure I get annoyed by crappy kids in the park who are all style over substance, but I forgot about them once I leave the park... I don't sense quite the same thing here on BOL. It's like the Howard Stern hater who listens to him every day to find something new to hate about him - I find it unhealthy.

Instead it's like "I was bored... so I decided to go read a freestyler magazine, watch the X-Games, [do something intentionally to rile me up about freestyle snowboarder] just to do have something get mad about and bash. Everyone! join in!."

=========================

The only thing a non-conformist hates more than a conformist is another non-conformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standard of non-conformity.

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Originally posted by bobdea

I was working in a shop for awhile and I epoxied the noses and tails of so many Gnus and Libs back together it was sickening the mervin manufacturing people just did not get the idea that having a cap open up at the end of the running length with a big six inch peice of plastic in there to make a sandwich at the nose and tail is not good its a construction that is prone to delaming

I guess epoxy doesnt bond plastic and fiberglass together well

some of the K2 boards from the mid 90s did this too but not nearly as much

I had a dough boy and they do ride nice I will give them that

but a longboard is not going to take as much as a beating a jib stick in most cases

so its a bit more exceptable for the longboards but still a bit behind the times

Where did you get the DJ photo from? Is it a board graphic from Libtech?

Yea, I'm not a snowboard expert... but the idea of have separate pieces for the nose and tail seems like a bad idea. The old MADD freestyle snowboard tended to crack at the rocker section or delam at the nose/tail a lot, and refused to stay epoxied. Some of the damage was due to jibbing abuse... although I know of two instance where we broke the boards from plain on-snow crashes (I managed to catch the nose edge of my board on a mini-mogul and snapped the nose section - there was a crack all the way across the topsheet).

Also any thoughts on the basalt fiber weave (aka Golden Fleece)?

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Well said ! It is all about sliding on snow. I am reminded of this anytime I am near kids experiencing their first day on snow. The little girl looking up at Mom with eyes the size of half-dollars and screaming at the top of her lungs. "MOMMY , I'M SLIDING". Yep. we are sliding , and it is damn good fun. Slide more!! The passion of alpine snowboarding is alive and well, share it with others , be kind and it will continue to grow. We are really living the historic second alpine wave. Much like skateboarding has had numerous rise and fall cycles. Enjoy being on the cutting edge of the cycle, old companies dropping the lines, new companies building for a small niche of hard core riders . Enjoy it for fact that the equipment (although limited) is available, enjoy it for excellent grooming that is now found nearly everywhere, enjoy it for the positive "Bro" factor that exists on open forums like BOL.

It is a good time in the history of alpine snowboarding. Glad I was here with all those that understood how much fun sliding on snow is!

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Originally posted by www.oldsnowboards.com

Well said ! It is all about sliding on snow. I am reminded of this anytime I am near kids experiencing their first day on snow. The little girl looking up at Mom with eyes the size of half-dollars and screaming at the top of her lungs. "MOMMY , I'M SLIDING". Yep. we are sliding , and it is damn good fun. Slide more!! The passion of alpine snowboarding is alive and well, share it with others , be kind and it will grow. We are really living the history of the second alpine wave. Much like skateboarding has had numerous rise and fall cycles. Enjoy being on the cutting edge of the cycle, old companies dropping the lines, new companies building for a small niche of hard core riders . Enjoy it for fact that the equipment (although limited) is available, enjoy it for excellent grooming that is now found nearly everywhere, enjoy it for the positive "Bro" factor that exists on open forums like BOL.

It is a good time in the history of alpine snowboarding. Glad I was here to see it and ride with the those that understood Sliding!

Yea... speaking of which, in addition to alpine snowboarding... it seems I'm sort of running into the resurgence of longboard skateboards (in a similar relationship to freestyle decks). I got a Loaded Vanguard about a month ago and have been riding it down a hill near my house on Bicycle Sundays and like after two weeks I saw the following post on TahoeCarvers (you need to register to view the forum, so I've copied it here):

Who was out on Sunday ripping it up on Cañada Road? You laid down a mean heelside carve with your hip almost on the ground.

If it wasn't anyone here, I'm going to have to stop the next time I pass and give him a carving board.

I mean despite from the continual remarks by passing bicyclists, how cool is that? Someone like saw me and totally felt the whole "bro" feeling you were talking about. Now a days, regular snowboarders are a dime a dozen... Everyone "snowboards" now... which to them means going up twice a season.

=========================

The only thing a non-conformist hates more than a conformist is another non-conformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standard of non-conformity.

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  • 5 months later...

and it does have mad edge hold...but you can feel the serrations.

Guy I was riding the lift was really hungover...his buddy asked me what was up with the board, and the first guy said "Thank God...I thought it was just me..."

All told, for many reasons, the board will not sell, but I gotta respect the guys at Lib Tech for throwing caution to the wind, and putting some crazy ideas out there. Remember, Jake and Tom were absolutely nuts for starting this at one time...

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One more thing since we're on the subject of rebels and the norm.

Is anyone else the least bit offended by the new wave of German army style snowboarding helmets? Some of them are subtle, like the Giro Bad Lieutenant which could be argued as being shaped like Nato helmets, but others are clearly inspired by Wermacht head gear, even to the point of exaggerating the neck flare.

I realize the war was 60 years ago but there are many survivors of the war around and the symbolism is still very bothersome. Witness young Prince Harry's recent costume faux pas.

Am I being too P.C./sensitive?

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First of all, I don't like any of the military style "accessories" that seem to be so fashionable right now, be it Woodland Camouflage Snow Pants, Urban Camouflage Snowboard bags or the above mentioned helmets. My husband is in the military and I see enough gear as is.

But I also think that P.C. is taking over our daily lives. Might some people be offended by anything resembling a German WWII uniform? Certainly. But the same can be said for any part of any military uniform. Tolearance is a wonderful thing - if exercised by all sides...

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