no heelside @ all?

[west carven]

howdy caspercarver

maybe the inserts are too setback? i seen your vid last year

with john and dave, you rip!. mount your bindings more forward.

maybe that will help.

[tenorman]

hi caspercarver

WEST CARVEN’s post got me thinking down an entirely different path.

i had a similar problem many years ago with a custom narrow 16 cm waisted prior wcr (based on mike kildevald’s 16 cm waisted 170cm prior he rode in the late 1990s.). it seemed to always want to turn in one direction. it finally dawned on me to check the ACCURACY of the insert placement. i discovered that they were off-centre (along the east/west axis.) i don’t have the board in front of me but i think it was about 4 or 5 millimeters closer to the toeside edge than the heelside edge so it kept wanting to turn toeside. if you need to know the exact measurements of the mispositioning of the inserts, then you can email my friend TOM EDSTRAND through his website at LANDYACHTZ LONGBOARDS as one of his employees (SAM WARSH) an excellent snowboard builder who used to work at OPTION SNOWBOARDS is trying to re-align the inserts for me. better if you ask his boss TOM EDSTRAND for permission before bothering one of his staff as i told SAM it was no rush and to take as much time as he needed—most skateboard companies are ramping up for the busy summer season right about now.

if your inserts are okay then i wouldn’t rule out your narrow stance quite yet. nothing wrong with a 16.5 INCH stance—especially if that’s what the board manufacturer recommends (examples: burton factory primes and older model f2s and older model nideckers.) i agreed with former bomberonline member WILLIAMBLAKE that some people are riding with ridiculously wide stances—typically a newbie on an old snowboard. i think if you need a wide stance then get a board that is built for a wide stance and vice versa. that being said i think most modern priors do require a wider stance so for someone who is 5’10 i’m guessing your particular prior board would require at least an 18 or 19 inch stance . i think it’s possible for a good rider (such as yourself based on what i see in your videos) to depart from the manufacturer’s recommended stance width but it probably means you have to work harder to make the board do what it’s supposed to do and could ride even better if you optimize (in this case, widen) your stance according to the recommendations of the board builder. bottom line: THE BEST ADVICE WILL BE FROM THE BOARD BUILDER AND NOT A BUNCH OF INTERNET CARVERS (MYSELF INCLUDED.)

finally in the highly unlikely event that it is user error the only thing i can suggest is maybe you are too aggressive? as your heelside turn keeps getting better each time i see it in a newer video you may just be OVERpushing the envelope. it could be that you are coming forward too fast and/or too much and don’t have enough weight on your BACK foot so the insufficiently weighted edge just starts wandering. this diving forward turn initiation is necessary for an older f2 beamer or older stiffer nosed race oriented board but your new board appears to have a more “friendlier” orientation (progressive flex/softer nose/tail for easier initiation/finishing etc.) which probably means a more centred and less race oriented “diving to the nose” style? or if you do still have to dive to the nose then you have to be more precise in FINISHING your turn by getting your weight sufficiently to the rear and at the proper moment.

you can test whether this is the case or not by deliberately trying to trigger the same heelside error repeatedly. go to a deserted part of the slope and keep making the same turn where you lose the edge until you can almost predict when it’s going to start skidding. as soon as the edge feels like it wants to skid then immediately rock back with all your weight onto the tail of your board (i.e. stomp on your back foot and try to get your ass into the back seat.) if this stomping on the back foot/rearward weight shift gets the sliding edge to hook up again then you have your answer. i hope i explained the “getting more weight on the back foot” idea properly. you may want to search the term BACK FOOT PIVOTING—bomberonline member ROB STEVENS once devoted almost an entire episode on his old snowboarding show the RIDE GUIDE on BACK FOOT PIVOTING so you might try to ask him directly for more help if this is indeed your problem.

[madlibs69]

The major contributor to you problem is the narrow stance. As mentioned, being too narrow will without question allow the knees to run into each other preventing you from getting lower. A narrow stance will also make it more difficult to equally pressure the edges along the entire length of the board. Jack nailed it pretty good with his response...the use of toe or heel lift will dictate how wide or narrow you stance will be. The stiffness of your boots will also have a part of this. Bindings set flat will generally use a narrower stance...add heel or toe lift and it will be more comfortable to widen the stance. At 5'10" not knowing your inseam, try to get up to a stance width of at least 19", pref. 19 1/2 or 19 3/4. Use rear heel lift close to max and for the front use little or no toe lift. Avoid canting unless needed. Set your rear boot forward lean almost maxed and ride your front boot forward lean in the free flex position. Spot your heel side turn coming off the toeside transition and dont forget to square the hips.

[caspercarver]

hi caspercarver

WEST CARVEN’s post got me thinking down an entirely different path.

i had a similar problem many years ago with a custom narrow 16 cm waisted prior wcr (based on mike kildevald’s 16 cm waisted 170cm prior he rode in the late 1990s.). it seemed to always want to turn in one direction. it finally dawned on me to check the ACCURACY of the insert placement. i discovered that they were off-centre (along the east/west axis.) i don’t have the board in front of me but i think it was about 4 or 5 millimeters closer to the toeside edge than the heelside edge so it kept wanting to turn toeside. if you need to know the exact measurements of the mispositioning of the inserts, then you can email my friend TOM EDSTRAND through his website at LANDYACHTZ LONGBOARDS as one of his employees (SAM WARSH) an excellent snowboard builder who used to work at OPTION SNOWBOARDS is trying to re-align the inserts for me. better if you ask his boss TOM EDSTRAND for permission before bothering one of his staff as i told SAM it was no rush and to take as much time as he needed—most skateboard companies are ramping up for the busy summer season right about now.

if your inserts are okay then i wouldn’t rule out your narrow stance quite yet. nothing wrong with a 16.5 centimeter stance—especially if that’s what the board manufacturer recommends (examples: burton factory primes and older model f2s and older model nideckers.) i agreed with former bomberonline member WILLIAMBLAKE that some people are riding with ridiculously wide stances—typically a newbie on an old snowboard. i think if you need a wide stance then get a board that is built for a wide stance and vice versa. that being said i think most modern priors do require a wider stance so for someone who is 5’10 i’m guessing your particular prior board would require at least an 18 or 19 inch stance . i think it’s possible for a good rider (such as yourself based on what i see in your videos) to depart from the manufacturer’s recommended stance width but it probably means you have to work harder to make the board do what it’s supposed to do and could ride even better if you optimize (in this case, widen) your stance according to the recommendations of the board builder. bottom line: THE BEST ADVICE WILL BE FROM THE BOARD BUILDER AND NOT A BUNCH OF INTERNET CARVERS (MYSELF INCLUDED.)

finally in the highly unlikely event that it is user error the only thing i can suggest is maybe you are too aggressive? as your heelside turn keeps getting better each time i see it in a newer video you may just be OVERpushing the envelope. it could be that you are coming forward too fast and/or too much and don’t have enough weight on your BACK foot so the insufficiently weighted edge just starts wandering. this diving forward turn initiation is necessary for an older f2 beamer or older stiffer nosed race oriented board but your new board appears to have a more “friendlier” orientation (progressive flex/softer nose/tail for easier initiation/finishing etc.) which probably means a more centred and less race oriented “diving to the nose” style? or if you do still have to dive to the nose then you have to be more precise in FINISHING your turn by getting your weight sufficiently to the rear and at the proper moment.

you can test whether this is the case or not by deliberately trying to trigger the same heelside error repeatedly. go to a deserted part of the slope and keep making the same turn where you lose the edge until you can almost predict when it’s going to start skidding. as soon as the edge feels like it wants to skid then immediately rock back with all your weight onto the tail of your board (i.e. stomp on your back foot and try to get your ass into the back seat.) if this stomping on the back foot/rearward weight shift gets the sliding edge to hook up again then you have your answer. i hope i explained the “getting more weight on the back foot” idea properly. you may want to search the term BACK FOOT PIVOTING—bomberonline member ROB STEVENS once devoted almost an entire episode on his old snowboarding show the RIDE GUIDE on BACK FOOT PIVOTING so you might try to ask him directly for more help if this is indeed your problem.

i checked the inserts and they are correct. still have not heard from prior. your right about leaning way into the nose. it seems as i put more and more forward lean into the rear boot (currently as much as possible) the boards i am riding turn quicker and i am leaning into the nose to try and turn as sharp as possible. i would say typically the only time i am centered is when i am exhausted. i will definitely put these suggestions to work tomorrow.

[Corey]

Chris Prior is in Aspen right now at SES, he probably won't see any emails until next week.

Make sure you haven't accidentally made a techique change. I was having major troubles on my heelsides this season until I got some pictures of me while riding. It turns out I was counter-rotating my hips and "sitting on the toilet". Fixed that bad habit and I'm riding better than ever.

[BadBrad]

I tried a new Prior 169 metal board last week and it is considerably stiffer than last years board. Both boards are Chris H.'s boards and both were built to his weight specs. The new one rides very well, great edge hold and so easy to ride. It's my first experience with a metal board and now I understand what everyone likes so much about them.

I also thought the new ones felt a little stiffer and livelier, but I didn't have a whole lot of experience to say for sure. I test rode one of the older metal-top WCRs (a 173) last year, and it felt kind of dead and unresponsive to me. It could have been the snow conditions or the fact that I had just demo'd a super lively Donek FCII, but that was my impression. But I bought a new '09 WCR metal 173 and I love it. It still isn't super lively, but it does feel livelier than the older one, and it is so easy to ride. It initiates and releases turns so easily, really holds an edge well, and is undisturbed by crud and variable surfaces.

I don't know the answer to your problem, but here are a few data points from me on stance widths.

- I used to ride 16-17" stance widths until last year, with Burton plates pretty much flat (just a tiny bit of front toe and rear heel lift). These were the reference stances for the Burton boards (UP 156 and Alp 156) and were very confortable to me.

- I got some used TD2s for my WCR 173, and I set them up at 19.3" stance width with 3* disks front and rear. Mostly toe/heel lift, but also a slight bit of inward canting. I am only 5'7", but I have long legs for my height (32" inseam). This wider stance feels good to me with the 3* disks or with 3* front & 6* rear. This is the reference (center) stance for the Prior boards. Their specs say the range is 17-22", but my measurements show 16.5 - 21.5 on both my WCRM and 4WD.

- On my 4WD 164 I initiall tried 19.3" with the Burton plates pretty much flat, and I got wavy heelside turns. I think the wider stance and lack of cant/lift caused me to twist the board on heelsides. I installed a 7* cant/lift on the rear and it now works great at 19.3".

- On my Madd 158 I tried widths in the 18.5-19" range, but even with the 3* disks it didn't seem to work as well on that board as a narrow stance did. I think it is around 18" now, which is still wider than the center stance on that board. My theory is that the Madd 158 has a small sweet spot and too wide a stance puts you outside of that sweet spot. Also, you lose leverage to bend the board with a wider stance, and I need the leverage with that very stiff board. A bigger or stronger rider could probably use a wider stance more effectively.

[Hotbeans]

try this next time (trailing hand touching front cuff is helpful):

When my heelsides are either washing out or ocillating, I can fix them right up and tight by pointing both hands over the nose farther up into the turn (I ride goofy, so my left hand usually winds up at about the 12:30, 1 o'clock position to the nose of the board) and really moving my cg back over my rear foot (keeping it over the edge). This puts me in a tight, seated position where my butt is ~1.5 ft over the rear of the board, centered over the edge. Heelside just locks right up. I've learned to take this a step further and extend my legs as I'm getting into the arc, throw my hands towards the 2 o'clock position, and VOILA! a laid out carve results!

[Dr D]

riding the x3 gets a little wierd on occasion. usually when the board is trying to turn tighter than I am. I found that pressuring the front foot and kinda visualizing flattening the board out works really well when I am trying for longer laid out turns..

It showed me how much I tend to ride with my back leg. the metal takes enough vibration out of the equation that you notice more edge stuff.

play with it shifting your weight back and forth and pressuring the sole of the front and back boot etc. I bet you just haven't found the sweet spot:biggthump

[caspercarver]

wow what a difference a few adjustments will make:). i started by changing my angles lower, front 60/rear 58. i left the rear binding where it was and moved the front binding one notch forward on every other run. as the stance got wider i had more and more heelside, on the toeside i don't think i have ever had my face that close to snow. i am going to have to be careful i don't knock any teeth out! three hours later and i was exhausted and ended up with a 19 inch stance. i feel there was not a difference between 18 and 19 in performance and 19 felt really awkward. tomorrow will put it back to 18. what do think about my placement of the bindings wider but forward? do think i should have kept the stance centered? i not saying i didn't blow out a few times on the heelside but obvisciouly there is going to be a bit of a learning curve here.

[Jack M]

Awesome! What is your inseam? I would think with 3 degree disks front and rear that 19" could work, but if you have shorter legs maybe not. Moving the front binding forward is a common choice, don't worry about it.