canuckcarver Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 what factors should i consider about taper when looking at a board?? and how important is it?. im asking cause im in the market for one, i wanted a volkl 178 but im gonna pay a $1000 by the time it gets here with shipping currency..etc.. so used or f2 cause they're local. I'll be replacing a 178 proton that for the life of me i cant ride with getting pain in the lower part of my shin. my 163 volkl is a dream boat and its not an angle/binding thing possibly technique, but is very unresponsive, and heavy. i also noticed that it has no taper, which may be why im having trouble with initiation of turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Taper is more about the release than the initiation of a turn. Don't know if I'm spot on about this, but the nose of my board hooks up very responsively, but you have to purposefully engage the tail or it will swing around. My $.02 and 4mm of taper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckcarver Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 well initiation may have been poor wording on my part. it just doesnt seem to transition well. i expect it to be a bit of a chore at slow speed, even when i start to get going with it. its like im driving a 75 fleetwood. nice and stable till you turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Is it getting out of a carve? That's what taper theoretically helps. The transition, I really don't know enough about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckcarver Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 slow when leaving a turn. id say its more of a technique problem but i know ive improved a lot and it shows on my 163 so im starting to lean towards a board problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 If you're doing larger radius turns, right before transitioning, tighten up the carve. It will scrub that last bit of speed, and the board will have more energy built up because you will decamber it more. You'll find it kinda springs you into the next turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Uhhhh Hellow......... Mc Fly, Yer in Canada, get a Coiler:1luvu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckcarver Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 i would but his price is more than i want to spend. ($825 i think, plus tax) and from what ive seen and read about the metal boards, the conditions at my local mountain make me nevious about damaging the metal. they can be hit or miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have been riding for 17 years. During that time I have been on 5 different boards. Point being, its not a board problem. Unless you bought it at walmart and it has metal edges it will ride just fine. I find that this forum pushes people to blame gear way to quickly when maybe it is just putting more time in working on something that is not that easy to perfect. No offense to anyone, but transitioning in between turns is all about body position and not the board. Keep what you have if that is the only problem. If you just want another board to play with buy it. But don't think the board doesn't transition well, or let anyone else tell you it is the board. It's lack of experience either with riding or the board your on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 i agree w/jj, i rode volkl 163 for a while, great board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckcarver Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 its my proton im having trouble with , i love my volkl it kicks ass and takes names Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chubz Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Bruce talked me into 6 mm of taper to allow for release into the next turn, at least thats what he said. I (and my board that is done and tested) am waiting patiently for the topsheet to get thru customs (3+ weeks), once I get it I can share on how the taper helps. I had an old aggression 173 that was very hooky and put me in the woods a few times. I would say 4-6mm of taper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have been riding for 17 years. During that time I have been on 5 different boards. Point being, its not a board problem. Unless you bought it at walmart and it has metal edges it will ride just fine. I find that this forum pushes people to blame gear way to quickly when maybe it is just putting more time in working on something that is not that easy to perfect.No offense to anyone, but transitioning in between turns is all about body position and not the board. Keep what you have if that is the only problem. If you just want another board to play with buy it. But don't think the board doesn't transition well, or let anyone else tell you it is the board. It's lack of experience either with riding or the board your on. Totally not true. Obviously the person and technique make a big difference, but different boards have very different characteristics. I started out on a 178 Proton, and hated it because it does have the propensity to get stuck in a carve. I love Prior because they are totally opposite in that regards. In terms of transitioning, riding, etc., board selection makes a huge difference, hence the awesomeness that are metal boards. The width of a board, how the bindings are setup, every thing that you can change, including our technique, has an impact, and to dismiss everything to technique, is somewhat silly, even though it does play a significant role in how one rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckcarver Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 i agree with you. i think i can rule out stance because is the same on my other board and im a great deal better on it. ive just been trying to rule out possiblities. im 200 or so with all my gear on. so i dont think it could be an under/over weight for the board. i got i private lesson on it in whistler. im being proactive about it. so the next logical step to me would be the board. unless theres some different technique with GS boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Well folks you can get down the hill ( almost) on anything but luckily I get to test 50 to 70 different boards per season and many times identical shape boards with very minor changes internally which can really make a noticeable difference. If you are having that much trouble with one board and not the other , it is the board. Good technique can make most things rideable but still not necessarily enjoyable. There are some real dogs out there so beware. My perspective is totally different and its not because I don't have enough work! Many times I'll read about someone having trouble with one thing or another and no way would I put up with it and that is why I started building them in the first place. A properly designed and built board is almost like riding on auto pilot where you just worry about what you want to do and not what the board tells you to do. BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I dunno, I think metal is "hit, hit and hit". Coilers w/ topsheets are built to last. Money well spent. Just do it! If yo want to "simulate taper" you can always detune an inch or so from the tail on your Proton. I've never ridden a Proton, though, and it may simply be a matter of you not liking its flex pattern or something... some people don't get along with some boards, and that's OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 its my proton im having trouble with , i love my volkl it kicks ass and takes names Ahh, I misunderstood, I thought you were having trouble with both. If you are having that much trouble with one board and not the other , it is the board. Good technique can make most things rideable but still not necessarily enjoyable. Agreed. FWIW, I put 4mm of taper on my custom. Me likey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 just worry about what you want to do and not what the board tells you to do.BV Completely sums up my first day (and all subsequent days) on the Coiler. Yes, the one that you call brutal. None of the frustrating crap that I associated with carving happened. The analogy I used for it was the Burton was a woman, and the Coiler is a well trained black lab. And no you perverts, it's not a sexual reference. An attitude one :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Oh yeah,it was about taper. I find the new metal boards are better with a bit more more taper but the amount does not really affect the ability of a board to get stuck in a turn as you sound like you are experiencing. It affect turns in a simple way really. More taper= more direction change at the beginning of the turn and less at the end Less taper = less direction change at the beginning of a turn and more at the end voila! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Bruce, so a tapered board's turn radius increases through the course of a turn (assuming the same edge angle) and it's the opposite for a non tapered one? Wouldn't a quick shoot through the fall line and then a long traverse be preferable for a free carve board and the opposite for a race board? Seems like most freecarve boards don't have taper whereas race boards do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEJ Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I had the same problem with an almost new Nidecker 177. Turned out the edges were proud of the base. Filed them down with a 1* bevel and the problem went away. How's the tune? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 i would but his price is more than i want to spend. ($825 i think, plus tax) and from what ive seen and read about the metal boards, the conditions at my local mountain make me nevious about damaging the metal. they can be hit or miss. Cmon man, wheres the love for the local builder:) Which resort do you ride at that is so gnarly? Most around here get quick coverage as they are so small. If you are ever near by I can surely find you something to take out for a spin. I may even have a few glass boards kicking around still. If lucky I will have something around tuned to your weight and you will feel the difference. I tweak the stiffness to every 10 lbs of rider weight and it does definitely make a difference. Currently I love to ride a 76 AM tuned to 160 ( I'm 180) and for steep ice it rules. Not so much fun on flat soft snow so as you can see even a 20 lb difference can make a board suitable for one condition or another. Better yet, bring the evil board in question along to the shop and I'll toss it on the stiffness testing jig and check the flex pattern. This can tell a lot when compared to my years of collected happy data BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Varsava Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Bruce, so a tapered board's turn radius increases through the course of a turn (assuming the same edge angle) and it's the opposite for a non tapered one?Wouldn't a quick shoot through the fall line and then a long traverse be preferable for a free carve board and the opposite for a race board? Seems like most freecarve boards don't have taper whereas race boards do. Damn, I knew I shouldn't have opened the taper can o worms! The radius does not really increase or decrease but if you widen the nose, the radii are actually pointing farther away from each other so direction changes become more aggressive when weighting the front in the initiation. The radii at the tail are pointing closer together so the board does not get the feeling of want to come under you and go across the hill as easily. Take a piece of paper and cut it out like a snowboard then cut it right down the middle and start adding and subtracting taper. You will see how when the nose widens, the board will want to shoot off in a different direction faster even though the radius is still the same. So if the nose is wider, the narrower tail will want to go straighter down the hill Quick through the fall line and a long traverse? Only if you want to get nailed by a skier:eek: BV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Haha no can of worms here. You answered my question. One more though..so assuming two boards with same flex, same SCR, but added taper, the one with taper will feel turnier throughout the turn or only initially? Long traverse for speed control anyway. Never mind those 7 year old racers going straight down. It's too bad you can't sue in California if you get hit and hurt on a ski slope, you have to prove it was malicious, since skiing legally counts as a contact sport. ;) :rolleyes::DTex, eat your heart out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 last time you spoke at oshawa you had 6 boards needing top sheets get back to work ! or join us sunday at sir sams for a boarder cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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