Bobby Buggs Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Why all the love for this board:1luvu: What is it that make people silly over it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I think it's Bruce's charming personality and propensity to pay for all the lap dances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 How do you decide between the schtubby and the AM? Which is a better carver? Which is a better all-mountain board? Which is more forgiving? Which is better in bumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 How do you decide between the schtubby and the AM? Which is a better carver? Which is a better all-mountain board? Which is more forgiving? Which is better in bumps? X2:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 This is what I think I know... The Stubby is a full-on race/freecarve construction. I'm pretty confident the AM is softer. The shape of the Stubby includes a blunt, short nose, and a small tail with a little kick and the corners rounded off. The Stubby's running lengths are about 5cm longer than traditional. Why? Well, why not. It works. The shape and profile of the nose is derived from current World Cup shapes, so they are decambered and have a gentle rise. This helps with smooth turn initiation, and I'm convinced it has a benefit for variable terrain too. The rounded tail helps there as well. They also have longer sidecuts than usual for their overall length. I got turned on to Shred's idea of less is more here when I got a pair of hand-me-down shaped skis that were 170cm with a 15m radius, and they carved great. There's simply no need for any extra lumber, imo. The 171 Stubby has a 13.2m sidecut, which is about the same as the Prior 183. My 170 has a 14m sidecut which is the same as a Prior 187. Those are pretty racy numbers, so the boards handle higher speeds and GS turns well. AM's have shorter sidecut radii for slower freecarving and/or smaller turn size. Longer sidecut and shorter length makes for shallower sidecut depth. This pays huge dividends when not carving. Shallow sidecut makes the board very easy to push and steer around, and also easy to break out of a carve. So all that put together makes for a board that is very capable as an all-mtn ride, without giving up a lick of pure carving performance. I would say if you spend your time 60/40 on-groom/off-groom (or more on-groom), and you like GS turns, get a Stubby. If you spend your time 40/60 on-groom/off-groom (or less on-groom) and/or you live in an area that gets frequent powder, get an AM. If you're time is spent 50/50, well, flip a coin I guess. I can't comment on moguls because I'm not a big fan of riding moguls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Thanks for the info, Jack. I ride mostly groomers, but I do slower freecarving with tighter turns on my local small crowded hills, so the AM might actually be the better choice for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Also the AM is usually wider. The 171 Stubby is 20cm wide, my 170 is 21cm wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 is 21 the widest carving board you have been on that you liked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 is 21 the widest carving board you have been on that you liked? Yes. I also had a 21cm wide Factory Prime 167 in 1996. I don't think I'd go wider than 21 on a board to be primarily used on the groomers, but I'm loving 21. It feels like a snowboard again. A good friend tried 23 and hated it, so I'm not really interested. I think my PJ7 was wider than 21, and of course my original Safari was, but they don't really count any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor VonRippington Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Good thread... thanks for the review Jack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 In the face of all this Schtubby love, time for some AM love! I've ridden two examples of Schtubbies (I currently own an older one) and two examples of AM-T (I currently own a very recent 176 with half a dozen spring/summer days on it) If you're going to be doing anything other than carving or no-tree powder riding I would recommend the AM hands down. The nose makes it a lot easier to guide around trees and such. It feels a helluva lot better when landing airs in soft snow. This is probably a west coast versus east cost thing, east coast may have more ice but we've got more "organic terrain" if you will. The Schtubby is as Jack says better at speed, the AM's hang on to bulletproof spring/summer early morning "snow" just as well though. The Schtubby is better on smoothly groomed ice, the AM kills it on poorly groomed ice (i.e, what you get when it freezes every night and then is 60 degrees in the afternoon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I agree with Jack's assessment. The Stubby was the board I already knew I wanted when it showed up at the demo tent. I thought my perfect board would have X, Y, and Z, and then it just magically showed up at the SES last year: long effective edge, small size for good maneuverability and fit-in-my-car-ability, the sweet spot for sidecut radius for the turns I like to make, good width for relaxed stance angles, softer flex so my 140lbs can bend it, metal for dampening. Finally, it rode amazingly awesome when I demoed it. I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest, but to me, it's like the beautiful baby of the 161 Swoard and my 173 F2 Speedster RS. I originally got a Swoard because I wanted good torsional stiffness but soft longitudinal flex, a short board with a long sidecut (so you can make big turns at high speed but short enough to still be playful), etc.. Note that the Swoard also had a very abbreviated nose and tail as well, to maximize edge length compared to the overall length of the board, and a similar minimal scoop height. For me, the Swoard was a little too soft, a little too short, and chattered out at high speeds and pressure (that was 1st gen. Swoard - I'm sure a lot has changed since then). The F2 GS board was longer, much stiffer, and generally held an edge better at high speed, but required all my weight on the front foot because it was so stiff, and also required a lot of speed and power to ride (otherwise it would not bend). The Stubby was the perfect blend of the two - longer edge than either of the other boards, shorter than the F2, bigger sidecut for big, high speed turns but soft enough to still be ridable at lower speeds, great damp ride, etc.. I could put a lot of power into it at high speeds and have it deal with it, or I could lazily lean it over and it would happily play along. I'm psyched - I hear my new Stubby is almost finished! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 The Schtubby is better on smoothly groomed ice, the AM kills it on poorly groomed ice (i.e, what you get when it freezes every night and then is 60 degrees in the afternoon) Can't make a comparison because I only rode my Schtubby X2 on every surface, even in waist deep powder between trees, also on fresh snow with packed icy snow under it. On every surface I had fun with my Schtubby. The Schtubby is just a funboard, not incredible fast, but fast enough for such a short board. With variable conditions and when it's crowded, I like my Schtubby the most before my longer boards in my quiver because I can crank this X2 down to very springie short turns. The Schtubby likes the hardpacked and icy conditions the most, it rails like a train. The board just fills up a gap in my quiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Can't make a comparison because I only rode my Schtubby X2 on every surface, even in waist deep powder between trees, also on fresh snow with packed icy snow under it. On every surface I had fun with my Schtubby. The Schtubby is just a funboard, not incredible fast, but fast enough for such a short board. With variable conditions and when it's crowded, I like my Schtubby the most before my longer boards in my quiver because I can crank this X2 down to very springie short turns. The Schtubby likes the hardpacked and icy conditions the most, it rails like a train. The board just fills up a gap in my quiver. Oh, I think the Schtubbies are plenty of fun in a variety of conditions. All I'm saying is, the AM's take it to the next level on poor carving conditions, be it soft or hard. I've been lucky enough to do back-to-back testing of very recent versions of these two decks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Karvlow Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Hey Ken, as I remember it..... the Schtubby left my feet and went to yours...and I asked how you liked it after your second run and you said......not at all, however I then saw you about 2 hours later ripping the hill apart with the Schtub. and you said you wouldn't give it back:D:D mine is just waiting for a top sheet!! The best part is you can ride it with drawn out turns or give it a push and snap a short turn, and in slow trails with crowds it's easy to kick it around. nothing but love for the Schtub:1luvu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 You know how I know you're gay?! nothing but love for the Schtub:1luvu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Hey Ken, as I remember it..... the Schtubby left my feet and went to yours...and I asked how you liked it after your second run and you said......not at all, however I then saw you about 2 hours later ripping the hill apart with the Schtub. and you said you wouldn't give it back:D:D mine is just waiting for a top sheet!! Heh, yeah I liked it OK after a run or two but didn't think it was anything special. It felt too soft but it was because I was used to a board that was too stiff. I forget what I hit afterwards but I think it might have been gunbarrel at Highlands and I just killed it - I hoarded that board for like half the day after that :D Nothing quite like finding gear that makes you stop sucking! I think mine has the topsheet already; just waiting for some finishing touches like protective tape or something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Thanks for the sig material:biggthump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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