Which cants are you using?

[philw]

My (long-winded) point is that you can do a lot with most boots. The angle between your foot and lower leg will be different front and back, though, and you can't achieve heel and toe lift in quite the same way

Precisely - that's why it's hard to answer the question simply. I used to run flat/flat but I used more lean/upright on the boots. These days I decided to go with the minimal lifts for Intec race (can't remember if that's 1/1 or 3/3), so I detuned the boot lean as a consequence.

Certainly it's not quite the same thing, but the effect seems to be quite similar.

Are we saying that you tend to need more or less lift with more mellow angles? Maybe I should draw a scatter chart...

[Thor VonRippington]

Really? I didn't know that. I thought they were 90 degrees. The Carver's Almanac also says 90 degrees.

I spent a lot of time measuring and 70 is what I came up with. It even looked right visually compared to 90. I don't own any TDs now so I "cant" recheck. If someone else has both TD2 and race plate cants, I would be interested to know what they come up with for cant angle. (or maybe someone out there knows how to measure the race plate cant angle without having both present to compare)

[xy9ine]

i'm looking for some replacements for my decade old radair plates & this dilemma has me on the fence between os2's & td3's. i'm not sure what i really prefer (revisiting alpine w/ a new deck after many softboot years) & don't want to have to buy a selection of bomber baseplates to figure it out. part of me says split the difference & try 3d/3d & hope i'm happy, the other says go catek & know i'll be able to find something that works without additional cash outlay. kinda too bad bomber couldn't utilize a shim system. argh.

[colintkemp]

xy9ine,

OS2 v. TD3 is a tough call, but you won't go wrong with either. OS2s are hyper adjustable, but some think that is a drawback - lots of things can get loose. I (others?) find OS2s to be stiffer that TD2s. Again, some like that, some don't. (Anyways, there are tons of threads on this issue.)

If you go with TD3s and 3 degree lifts and you end up wanting less or more, you will have an easy time finding 0 or 6 degree lifts - heck I've got some 6 degrees I'm not using if you eventually need some.

Colin

[SEJ]

xy9ine, I got some cateks just for that reason, but after playing around I came back to 6-6. The drawback to cateks as I see it,(other than a lot of parts to loosen up, and they will), is that the cant moves with the angle. to keep the same cant you have to re-adjust them every time you change angles. To try to keep 6-6 when moving from a skinny board to a wider one I needed a level, angle finder, and a framing square. I have gone back to fixed cants, much easier, and not a lot of stuff loosening up.

[csquared]

Always thought I was a bit different. Now I know I'm a wierdo based on what everyone else seems to be using. WTF, works for me.

Angles 51 r / 57 fr to 56 r / 63 fr.

[yyzcanuck]

To try to keep 6-6 when moving from a skinny board to a wider one I needed a level, angle finder, and a framing square. I have gone back to fixed cants, much easier, and not a lot of stuff loosening up.

Are you ****ing serious?

[Terryw]

I am currently using the OS2s and like them very much. I had TD-2s and liked them as well. The only reason I changed was because I wanted to have 6 degrees of heel lift combined with 3 degrees inward cant for my rear foot.

Front 56, 3 toe lift, 3 inward cant

Rear 54, 6 heel lift, 3 inward cant

I like that I can adjust cant and lift independent of one another. But I have to admit that it still bugs me that I have to carry two tools to adjust my bindings. However the benefit is that it is a faster adjustment on the snow.

As far as measuring degrees of lift and cant, my OS2s came with a handy measuring stick. I just wonder what SEJ was trying to measure .

[Silver Bullet]

I use a 6 front and 3 or 0 rear. All lift no cant. This allows me to widen my stance for a more stable fore/aft ride. The toe lift also eliminated the front leg burn that a 0 front afflicted with.

[trikerdad]

Six degrees in back turned to give 3 degrees of inward cant and 3 degrees of heel lift. Eight degrees of toe lift in front. Fin calls it "the big gas pedal".

[SEJ]

Thor, I'm confused, are you saying that the Burton cant angle is not true to the centerline of the board? I think I could measure this stuff. I've got both, and I'm used to going through this procedure setting up my Cateks every time I changed the angle, but I was always doing it true to center line.

[Thor VonRippington]

Thor, I'm confused, are you saying that the Burton cant angle is not true to the centerline of the board? I think I could measure this stuff. I've got both, and I'm used to going through this procedure setting up my Cateks every time I changed the angle, but I was always doing it true to center line.

It's true to the centerline. Just say'n if someone wants to set up TDs to replicate an Ibex or Burton cant (the sort of rectangle one that comes with the binding) then set the TD cant angle at 70 degrees. It would be cool if you could verify that SEJ. I spent quite a lot of time figuring this out, but then again Im no math/geometry wiz either.

[SEJ]

On my post about the Cateks I wanted to keep the cant angle true to the centerline of the board. I ride reference angles, so as the board gets wider the binding angles decrease, and the cant set into the binding moves with them. With Burton or TDs the cant angle stays where it is because the binding rotates independently of the cant.

[Thor VonRippington]

It's true to the centerline. Just say'n if someone wants to set up TDs to replicate an Ibex or Burton cant (the sort of rectangle one that comes with the binding) then set the TD cant angle at 70 degrees. It would be cool if you could verify that SEJ. I spent quite a lot of time figuring this out, but then again Im no math/geometry wiz either.

Got a number on this Scott?

[Scott Firestone]

Got a number on this Scott?

I measured the Burton hex wedge that I have, which comes with the race plates. It's a 7 degree wedge (I had the wrong value in the Almanac; I just updated it). When mounted on the board, the slope of the wedge is in the direction of the long axis of the board. From eyeballing it, it seems like the slope direction is somewhere around 70 degrees, but that's an optical illusion. I used micrometer calipers to measure the height of the wedge along the perimeter and the interior hole. If you were to draw an imaginary line perpendicular to the long axis of the board and going through the wedge, the wedge has a constant height along that entire line, indicating that the slope is aligned with the long axis of the board. Also, when measuring the interior hole, the smallest height and largest height of the walls of the hole are on the centerline of the board.

[Thor VonRippington]

Thanks for checking that Scott.

So what would someone with TDs set their cant angle to replicate the Burton wedge?

[SEJ]

Finally got a chance to check mine and I agree with Scott. While the rectangular shape appears to be mounted about 35 degrees from the center line axess of the board, the cant effect is true to the center line of the board. I put mine on a level surface and measured the angle with a smart level. It was 7 degrees when true to the center line, but if you moved 20 degrees in either direction it dropped to 6.5 degrees.

So, to answer your question Thor, you would mount TD cants at 0 degree or 90 degree depending on how you measure it.

[patmoore]

I used to have rear cants on my rear Burton Physic binding. I don't know the number of degrees but it did tilt my knee inward (to the left - I ride regular). I have a 5.5 degree inward cant in my right knee as a result of three surgeries. Note the photos below of my Technica Icon ski boots.

Last year I switched to Burton Race Plates with 0 and 0 and had pretty good success racing but I know there's always room for improvement. What would you folks recommend?

[AK in PA]

I used to ride the old Burton cant until I upgraded to TD2s a few years ago. Bought the first set with 3/3 cants. Then I bought a used set with 0/6 cants. I found I was more stable and rode better with a flat front foot, though the rear cant was a bit much. So I recently traded a cant to have both pairs match at 0F / 3R. Should have it nailed now.

[Thor VonRippington]

Finally got a chance to check mine and I agree with Scott. While the rectangular shape appears to be mounted about 35 degrees from the center line axess of the board, the cant effect is true to the center line of the board. I put mine on a level surface and measured the angle with a smart level. It was 7 degrees when true to the center line, but if you moved 20 degrees in either direction it dropped to 6.5 degrees.

So, to answer your question Thor, you would mount TD cants at 0 degree or 90 degree depending on how you measure it.

I'm obviously confussed... hopefully I'll have a chance to look at them both at the same time again someday.

[SEJ]

Maybe this will help to clear it up.

[Thor VonRippington]

I get that... now set up a TD2 exactly the same (yes it will be at most 6 degree not 7) and tell me what the number reads on the TD plate for cant angle.

Will it be 90? Keep your camera handy...

[SEJ]

With my TD2 cant mounted so the cant angle is true to the centerline of the board I read 90 degrees.

[redriver]

Lots of good discussion on Burton/Ibex and TDs. What about those using F2 intecs or race titaniums? My sets came with cant wedges, but I don't know what degree (they're about 1/8" on one side to nothing on the other) that I've been using to cant inward on both the front and rear leg.

I use an F2 lift wedge of about a half inch that I use on the back heel and a small 1/8" wedge (not cant) for the toe of the back foot. Neither set came with other lifts, so I don't use anything on the front toe. I'd like to try that though, if it means less quad burn on the front leg, as others here suggest (the burn that often limits my day in hard boots).

The F2 freecares I bought last year have built in inward cant front and back, but no lift unless I add it.

Other F2 riders?

[Thor VonRippington]

Here is my dilemma:

I see the metal center piece is 90 degrees to the center line axes of the board (blue line). But the highest and lowest points of the cant itself (orange arrows) are at 70 degrees which is what determines the angle your boot will be positioned... yes/no? If you set up a TD binding at 90, the highest and lowest points of the cant disc would follow the blue line. Set the TD at 70 and you would replicate what you see here... yes/no?

Scott F - I read post #42 again and just don't see it (optical delusion?)

I may be the only person on the planet that cares about this but it's for good reason in my case... Thanks