Camber

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

The lack of camber seemed to mean that the tip and tail were inclined to flutter instead of tracking the snow when the board was running flat or nearly flat.

As with any structure, camber is a means of applying stress to a member such that when it is in its "zero" position, the member is delivering its design strength and resisting bending. Without camber, the member must flex somewhat beyond its "zero" position before it begins to act appreciably. This momentary weakness before a member offers significant resistance means there is less than full strength to resist encountered forces and movement is possible - that is it is free to flutter within a small range. We need camber so that our boards are at full strength when running flat and have resistance against flexure from the moment of turn initiation (rather than from 5% bending onwards).

You raise some very interesting points. I am a big fan of Camber, in my experience it tends help with early tracking into the turn. It (when there is allot of camber) can also make a board less forgiving and "Twitchy", which I am happy to live with due to the trade offs of having a fast and very positive edge initiation. Not to mention all the other characteristics already mentioned here, pop, lively, etc.

In the case quoted above, a set of Snow Stix might be just the ticket. I am anxious to try the newest Tinkler "Rocker" Powder boards being developed. The key difference is the adjustment capabilities and dampening of the Snow Stix. Check it out.

[LeeW]

I had to chime on this one. I truly wonder how a race board would be had it been using banana technology ??

[b0ardski]

That should be a kicka$$ pow board, Bryan.

I still think rocker ruins initiation on hardpack.

Curious why the snow stix are symmetric up front & asym in the back???

Also wondering, how much $ are set of those??

Do you think they'd bring my grocer back to life??

[BadBrad]

Another advantage of camber is that it allows the board to track over bumps and other irregularities. As an analogy, think of a car's suspension. At rest it allows both compression and droop. Without the droop it wouldn't follow undulations in the road very well. Camber on a board works kind of like suspension droop. When standing on the board on flat ground it is flat, but camber allows it to now flex either direction to track over surface irregularities. On perfect groom it probably matters less, just like on a perfectly smooth road you don't need much suspension droop.

[softbootsurfer]

What? The only time there is any camber is when the board is unweighted

or at home in your closet. If you are over the front and applying pressure

from turn to turn where is the camber then? Depending on your style of

riding it is the flex and the sidecut that can set you free...

[tex1230]

What? The only time there is any camber is when the board is unweighted

or at home in your closet. If you are over the front and applying pressure

from turn to turn where is the camber then? Depending on your style of

riding it is the flex and the sidecut that can set you free...

yeah...because the board is never unweighted while carving...

I guess if you only carve circles this would apply.

[b0ardski]

Softbootsailer, you need a banana.

New off the shelf, good sidecut, brand new flex, but if the tip & tail aren't being pushed down onto the snow when unwieghted in transition, "applying my body wieght to the front of my board" will not hook it up into a carve.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

That should be a kicka$$ pow board, Bryan.

I still think rocker ruins initiation on hardpack.

Curious why the snow stix are symmetric up front & asym in the back???

Also wondering, how much $ are set of those??

Do you think they'd bring my grocer back to life??

Evidently , according to Tinkler, IT IS A KICK ASS POWDER BOARD, He put it through it's paces this past season.

He also said , referring to a powder day and the soft groomers, "I will never go back to a cambered board on Powder", that is huge coming from Mike!! He also stated that it ripped on the soft groomers, the combo of width and rocker worked really well carving. Sort of quoto: "If I had to travel with only one board, without question or hesitation, this would be the ONE"

The Snow Stix are "Tuneable" allowing you to put pressure where you want it.

The set up you see is how Mike last road it. I know that I tend to favor my heelside turn and to "Power Up" the flex I go tighter on the Snow Stix for more pressure. It is my guess that is what Mike was doing.

The last time Snow Stix were being sold retail, they were 150$ a set, that was a long time ago. It also depends on length, fiberglass or carbon fiber , etc. I believe the last set purchased for one of Mike's already built boards was around 200 or 250$ for the Carbon Fiber Snow Stix. Stayed tuned, they MAY be available this coming season. Currently we only have enough to install on new custom boards. They are not being sold separately at this time.

Very possibly, depending on the condition of your old board, it could be just the ticket to give it new power. Keep in mind you would also benefit from being able to adjust or "Tune" the flex AND you would then have the dampening effect. I think you would be VERY pleased with the out come.

Bryan

The orders are already coming in: Deliveries are now likely December or January.

Wait till you see some of the new customs!! Couple of the BOL members have ordered

some SIC board set ups. I will leave it up to them to publish the details. Too soon

Let your mind run wild!! Mike builds those ideas into real works of functional art.

It is YOUR board, build it as you have envisioned it with Mike's craftsmanship.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Archive of some of Mike's work.

Tinkler Gallery Link

[softbootsurfer]

You Know, I went downstairs to my closet where I have 2 new sticks for this

coming season

1 is a Burton supermodel, lay it on the floor and 1/4" camber

2 is an arbor, lay it on floor and 3/8" camber

Then I go out to my shed where last years supermodel that went 130 days

is hiding, lay it flat on floor and 1/4"

Look at that pic on page one of this thread submitted by Oldsnowboards man

see how the board is flexed or loaded? that is where the energy comes from

for the next turn...when you are over the front you load and build the energy

up like that pic shows and when you release and unweight that is what is

initiating the next turn...I do not believe the very small amount of camber

in either the supermodels or the Arbor matters that much?

I thought the guy that started this thread asked for opinions?

:rolleyes:

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Look at that pic on page one of this thread submitted by Oldsnowboards man

see how the board is flexed or loaded? that is where the energy comes from

for the next turn...when you are over the front you load and build the energy

up like that pic shows and when you release and unweight that is what is

initiating the next turn...I do not believe the very small amount of camber

in either the supermodels or the Arbor matters that much?

I thought the guy that started this thread asked for opinions?

:rolleyes:

I would agree, in fact, I agree with most of what I have read in this thread. I believe that both view have validity. Ideally you want forgiveness AND performance. I don't like a lazy / wishy washy board / yet, having to be totally focused and worried about getting thrown down on a cat track or running flat is no fun either.

PS. That is my favorite Tinkler, and it is by most standards both stiff and heavy.

[softbootsurfer]

I watched Dryer ride the "big Stick" at Buttermilk...

It was smooth and he ripped once up to the speeds needed to get it to

respond. I guessed that those added bars were to increase the flex ,add

dampening and responsiveness ? Just the weight and length of the board I felt

were just to much for conventional snowboard construction hence the

add ons were really needed to make it work...and work it did...Bravo

[b0ardski]

I always knew asym mattered with a foward stance:p

functional art creams my jeans

2 goofys??. maybe I'm not so wierd after all??

[LeeW]

I gather nobody has experiment with such thing with banana tech with raceboard/alpine board ? I can't reckon if its ever experiment over the years. anwyays, sorry for "attempting" to hijack this thread -- i just had to ask since it's the opposite of camber. i myself am more comfortable with camber, tho i hear some people say they really like it, but i cannot fathom it being applicable to racing/alpine riding.

[west carven]

howdy

i have a dead amp 5 with no camber, yet it still rocks in the powder.

camber gives a carving board the livelyness (poppinness) in boards,

yet a board with little camber gives a board some dampness.

its just a perference, i have a alp 5 with alot of camber yet its too soft.

so i think that the stiffness of a board has more life than camber.

just my 3 cents...

west carven

[photodad2001]

yeah...because the board is never unweighted while carving...

I guess if you only carve circles this would apply.

This should go under the 360 degree carve thread from last season!:lol:

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[boarderboy]

Even when we went to Jay Peak five year years ago to celebrate my wife's

____th birthday (a trip which saw her break her ___-old hip while on twin planks) I didn't see anything approaching a light-powder day.

How many f****ing tens of thousands of hours of riding, designing, brainstorming, and then riding & testing some more have gone into achieving a rough consensus on what constitutes a good-riding snowboard.

Based on the above, and on my very limited number of days true-powder riding, I'm convinced - in low-moisture champagne, even after it's been low-temp groomed, almost anything will work great, even a lunch tray. However, on firm groom, and on anything approaching icey hardpack, camber works! It works great!!

And so, as I prepare (finally) to build my first long skateboard, and then (finally) to build my son an Xmas snowboard, with the ultimate goal of (finally) building myself an all-mountain hardboot cruiser, I'm gonna study camber stats a lot.

And then I'm gonna ask for advice on BOL for how much camber to build into a specific board length/width/sidecut, etc. for XX lbs. weight rider of XX experience.

'Cause here on the Ice Coast, camber doesn't just work. Camber Rules!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Nicely said AND very entertaining at the same time. Bravo!

[softbootsurfer]

Why is there so little camber in the Supermodels and Arbor?

Why do some of the long 180 and above coilers lay so flat yet

carve so good? at least some of them I have seen with very good

riders.

When I mention unweighting I am talking about releasing the flex that

I have loaded on the board from throwing all my body weight forward

into either a frontside or backside turn, this can literally stop the board

or throw you highside if you do not release it at that right time. The sidecut

finishes the turn for you and the energy is transferred through the release

of flex into the next turn...so keep your camber and I will stick with a

board that has the right flex and sidecut for these two things are what allow

you to carve at all.

As for staying focused while you are riding so you do not crash...That is

for me one of carvings greatest attributes...One line Top to Bottom

total concentration required...still 3 months to go till next time!

[b0ardski]

Camber isn't nessisaryfor powder.

When that flex is released and the board is in the air (I.E wieghtless transion) for a split second, you want the new edge to engage as soon as possible; camber + flex makes up the difference between holding an edge & washing out, tip OR tail.

[softbootsurfer]

actually, when I go from frontside to backside or vice versa my track

shows an edge in the snow the WHOLE time except for a split second

where the edge to edge transition takes place and often you can not see

a flat spot at all...how is camber helping me when the only thing touching

the snow is the edge to edge transition which is fed by my weight

distribution and the boards flex at loading and unloading?

[b0ardski]

When I'm carving, my tracks show both edges in the snow throughout the transition when the upper body is weightless the legs feed the board into the next turn before the last turn is finished

[softbootsurfer]

That is cool, that you can do that...

When my board is flat I can not see any edge marks in the snow at all.

[b0ardski]

Torsionally twisting the board out of the old turn & into the new one, the tip starts to engage before the tail completely releases, so the ends of the trenches bypass each other for 2-3ft.

[tex1230]

When I'm carving there's usually a 1-2 foot space between arcs...camber assisting in airborne edge changes!

LeeW - I tried to carve my old Lamar TrickStick once long ago... (the original Banana Board) It didn't work so much!!! You cannot set the edge correctly if the front end of the board is 1cm above the snowwhen flat.