newcarver Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Is it safe to do airs with plate bindings? I don't do big airs but catch a lot of small (2-3') high airs while freeriding. I use Raichle boots with the soft heels. Was afraid that they could compress enough and the bindings flex enough to cause a release. I have done airs with TD2's and it looks like the heel screws might have touched the bindings some:eek: Anybody have any thoughts on this? Would it be best to crank them down a little extra to compensate for the extra give of landing airs? Most of the time I land on an incline but not always. The flat landings are what makes me nervous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 the TD1 and air hurts boards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Bindings aren't meant to be cranked down to compensate for mis-use. Cranking them down only makes the problem worse. I'm not saying catching air is mis-use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 having been a big jumper n the soft gear, one of the most difficult habits to overcome for me, is the urge to "Stomp" a landing when comming over a hill hard and fast, or lipping off a small drop......... Three times I've nearly eaten crud bigtime because I hear that dreaded "PING!" as the rear toebail disconnects and pops loose. MY SOLUTION: A band of velcro around the toebails to ensure they stay on. Landing in hardboots hurts if you are not PERFECT in form, posture, positioning and able to make micro "slip-slide" adjustments when exiting the air and returning to the ground. Sunday this week another rider (Dingbat) said "I make a point of it to keep my board firmly on the ground". SOUND ADVICE IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 if you do not want to pop out. Catching air is for the youngins, as can be seen below. Aren't you too old for this?Bola http://www.allboardssports.com 1-303-415-1600 I do that all the time...in plates and A/T boots, or on a race board..... Will I be OK? I'm 50....Still young, I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave ESPI Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 But see........ it isn't the AIR that hurts..... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 But see........ it isn't the AIR that hurts.....LOL I recognize that pose!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 I love to catch air in hardboots.The best of all worlds for me is intec bindings with flexible base plates like the old blax ones had or the f2 carve rs.I never pop out and I go as big as the better local level park monkeys.I usually pop in the softer yellow tongues on my Raichles when I am going to be park riding or jumping,but have no problems with the stiffer red tongues,which I prefer when I am on a carve specific board and spinning from and into carves.I have f2 titanium intecs on my 182 coiler and catch air on it fairly regularly,but have been having lots of fun lately on old 163 Elan Speedball with my old blax bindings on it,jumping off/over everything with 60/57 angles.There are no rules,only opinions:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 You ride damn well for a dude on a 1000.00 board:) This comment is meant to convey my opinion of Don's riding at OES which was as good or better than most that were on 1000.00 boards.The video being commented on in the FP thread is not indicative of the high level I witnessed Don riding at several times at OES. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Just to let you know ;I don't think the riding in the video was bad by any means;just that I saw you ride even better.I never seem to get caught on vid at my best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 lol, bet those plates are not burton physics from the first year....... I've broken burton boards, not sure why you think they're so great even in the jib market they're not known for durability. You guys look at honest statements and turn it into bashing but it's the truth if they were that great more modern boards would feel like them <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> very few people still ride in ski boots, there's a reason but there's always someone here that thinks they're better because they have a pair they ride in. Rossignol 7S was a good ski 17 years ago, the primes were alright boards a decade ago, don't be like that guy that still swear by his 200 cm atomic and still rock the day glo. some boots put up with air better, ski boots break with hard landings, the buckles specifically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Also, I know this guy named Chris Klug who won an Olympic Bronze Medal in 2002 while riding a Burton board with Burton Race Plates in his Burton boots. He’s someone I listen to and respect. Do you and Billy think you know more about snowboarding and ride better than Chris Klug? Don, Chris was riding Frankenstein Burton boots that broke mid way through the day, A Custom Race stock board and shape, that he claims had metal in it, and burton bindings (which I and Phil Fell have promoted as a great racing binding on BOL since day one of BOL Chris now rides Kesslers F2 bindings and well last I saw UPZ and or northwave boots.... He was even riding Kesslers with burton stickers on them toward the end of his burton contract. Hows burton supporting Chris now by the way???? Chris is a friend, I do know what I know compared to him, You would be surprised..... But since he beat me most of the time I raced him, and he is still racing while I have followed another sport latley the answer to who races better is clear. Also your riding is great in the Vid and I too have seen you ride better but considering how static you upper body was compared to all the bouncing your board was doing there was a lot of disconnect. The board was not tracking well it was being pressured and realesed through out the turn not just on the way in and out. It also was wandering and not tracking true a sign of torsonal weakness. Like I said by most BOLer standards great riding but under more trained eyes the board could and should have been doing alot better.:D Oh yea I have been riding every board I own in the halfpipe including my kesslers and prior metal boards... They are just fine!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Hi bobdea,I'm 5'7" and 137 pounds and you said that you are 260 pounds, so I don't see why we would want to be on the same equipment. In fact, a few days ago when I was looking for a 178cm 4807 powder board you told me that it would be too soft and too short for me and that I should get a 197cm Nitro Powdergun. Yea, thanks for the great advice. Also, I know this guy named Chris Klug who won an Olympic Bronze Medal in 2002 while riding a Burton board with Burton Race Plates in his Burton boots. He’s someone I listen to and respect. Do you and Billy think you know more about snowboarding and ride better than Chris Klug? you're tiny, I did not know, you're well out of the normal range, the 178 is not the board for you either it's gonna be a bit more than you can handle the 168 would be better. seriously. the nitros come in a few sizes and no matter what the size they perform in the pow. like burton, O-sin is huge with the rabble here (mainly due to price and availability) I like bordy have said that there's not much wrong with burton plates with my added bit: if you're small, I say this based on some horror stories and based on the longevity of my own stuff. Physics though take me about a run to break, literally Just the other day I said burton fires are still one of the better boots you can get, I liked them for a few reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Is it safe to do airs with plate bindings? I don't do big airs but catch a lot of small (2-3') high airs while freeriding. I use Raichle boots with the soft heels. Was afraid that they could compress enough and the bindings flex enough to cause a release. I have done airs with TD2's and it looks like the heel screws might have touched the bindings some:eek: Anybody have any thoughts on this? Would it be best to crank them down a little extra to compensate for the extra give of landing airs? Most of the time I land on an incline but not always. The flat landings are what makes me nervous. What heel screws are you talking about? The screws that hold the heel to the boot or the screws of the heel block on the binding? I have jumped the crap out of TD2s. No problems. Full park size airs. Also any softer hard boot could warp enough to come out of any bindings it could be while landing carving or crashing..... I have seen every boot realease from every binding just about... Go have fun. Your not putting gear through anything others have not. And make sure all your screw are tight and lubed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Billy, The video was taken at OES 2008 when I was helping a group of people improve their balance while riding. Several people in the group were initiating their turns by rotating their upper body while flailing their arms around, and they were bending at the waist in attempts to touch the snow on their toe-side turns (which was causing them to fall), and they were leaning their upper body into their heel-side turns, which was also causing them to fall. The focus of my demonstration in the video was to show initiating the turn with the feet, show effective angulation to promote dynamic balance, and to ride with a quiet upper body and hands so they could see the benefit when they do not flail their arms around. I agree that there is room for improvement in my riding, and there is always room for improvement in everyone else's riding including the top professional racers (that's why they have coaches). At the WES we talked about metal boards and I told you what I liked and I have found exactly what I want in a metal board when I demoed the SG Race Pro Team 178 Titanal and right now RJ is trying to get me one. Don, Like I said lots of room for improvment in the video, and with your feet only imputs lots of issues with the gear. As I said I wasn't bad mouthing you but to say you were ripping on that board was not a true statement in my opinion.... Glad you found a metal stick that you like. I am sure you will love the benifits over the ALPs and UPs... On a side note a great way to help people with the task your providing is to losen up the top of their boots to force balance and make them ride with there hands on there side, on a slope the are very confidant on. This is a drill I have done with a ton of athletes as a coach and a bunch of coaches as a athlete. It works wonders for the skills you are trying to instill... Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 A Custom Race stock board and shape, that he claims had metal in it Just as an aside - I saw wavechaser's burton race board (One of Klug's Race Stock Models) this weekend and it was absolutely nothing like any stock burton I have ever seen. You cannot compare Klug's stuff to any production board. Same thing hapenned all the time in the 90's - you don't think Mark Fawcett's race boards were the same sh!t Sims was selling to the masses, do you? (oh, yeah - they were coilers with sims logos...weren't they?) I had several Lib Tech race boards that looked NOTHING like the stuff they had in the stores... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furi Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Yah so I've removed the youtube vid. My intent was to poke fun at the idea of recommending high-end boards to a newbie for them to enjoy or learn the sport. I guess I haven't been around bomber long enough to realize it would raise such a heated conversion spanning across two posts. Don is an excellent rider and that video was indeed a few turns to demo what some of us should be working on. It was not a "free-ride" or "let's show off for the camera" video and not indicative of Don's everyday riding ability or style. Again I apologize to Don for inadvertently making him a conversion point on a thread he didn't even post on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoom Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 First of all - air in hardboots. Not my thing, but yes! it can be done and is regularly done well by a bunch of folks on this forum and beyond. Now, onto the threadjack.... Don,Like I said lots of room for improvment in the video, and with your feet only imputs lots of issues with the gear. As I said I wasn't bad mouthing you but to say you were ripping on that board was not a true statement in my opinion.... Glad you found a metal stick that you like. I am sure you will love the benifits over the ALPs and UPs... On a side note a great way to help people with the task your providing is to losen up the top of their boots to force balance and make them ride with there hands on there side, on a slope the are very confidant on. This is a drill I have done with a ton of athletes as a coach and a bunch of coaches as a athlete. It works wonders for the skills you are trying to instill... Billy Hi Billy, I happen to know and like both you and Don, and I know that you are both great assets to the sport, and only want the best for newbies and professionals alike. I think it's important to note that Don did not post the video, has never claimed he was "ripping" in the video, and he openly admitted that there's room for improvement in his riding (as is true for everyone - no exceptions). Basically, Don never asked for this.... I understand you're trying to make a point, but you're coming across more harshly than you might intend. I have had the privilege of taking several lessons with Don and I attended the clinic in which the video was shot. Don is a level 3 instructor with a huge bag of tricks. A number of his drills isolate or synchronize upper and lower body mechanics as needed. I know that Don, who has no need to teach lessons, regularly takes time out of his riding schedule to teach all levels of riders because he loves the sport. His advice and drills have made a tremendous difference in my riding, and I know I'm not alone. You are a great rider, racer and, probably, instructor (as I recall you weren't interested in teaching new hardbooters when Buell and I inquired). However, I think that offering unsolicited criticism and advice to another damn fine rider and instructor is pretty insulting. Don is not above taking lessons and advice, but he asks for it when he wants it. He also refrains from offering advice when he's not asked. I think that you, of all people, would understand that internet armchair quarterbacking is not the best way to make friends or help people. Hope you're looking forward to some great kiting. Take care, Rebecca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I've done lots of 20-30 ft drops into soft powder & heavy mank(I don't do hard, flat landings) on stepin plates in the last 15 yrs, mostly on all mt boards, and yes they've been damaged. If it breaks from the ocassional 3 or 5 off a bump, or stompin a 180 or a roller carving the groom, you need to upgrade anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Thanks for the info. I ride a generics peak 60 and have been riding in on everything. Very fun board to ride in plates. I was riding down Bushwacker at T-ride yesterday and slashing the pow with it and doing some airs off some bumps on the side. I am using snowpro race bindings and noticed that my front foot was slightly loose in them. This was after riding down bushwacker and then hitting the 1/2 pipe, acid dropping into it and doing an air out of it at the end. Carved my way down the middle of it. Some times I hit catwalks and boost some big airs at high speed. The boots I have are stiff (AF700) but have the original heels in them. Looks like screws that hold the heels to the boot contacted the TD2s. I rode them with a race board and did some airs over some rises while going at a good clip (35-40mph). I figure that I'll be safe as long as landing on an inclined surface and/or soft snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 hot AIR & PLATEitudes I get AIR on PLATES all the time & I want that edge control when sticking a landing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I spend almost all of my time in the park going from jump to jump. Occasionally I sneak in an off-piste run or a carving run but then it's back to the park... I had no end of trouble with toe-lever bindings, including TD1s. I don't think the problem is the toe lever but rather the interface between the boot's heel ledge and the binding's heel bail. If you set the binding way-too-loose and try to tilt the boot sideways with your hands you will probably see how the heel ledge works its way out from the bail. I think the same thing happens with properly tensioned bindings if you land way-too-hard (e.g. hitting a kicker with not enough speed and landing flat on the knuckle). So I went to Intec, and have been very happy with that setup (with one exception, coincidentally I just mentioned it in another thread). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Im always lapping through the jumps, even on a 186, I find it easier on bigger board, I try to put the tail down first. though Its a bit hard with cateks to do anything. The Burton race plates felt really soft, but could do grabs, and easier in the pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleb Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 I just started to go through the park with one of my skier friends. I can do the medium size jumps. Landing on the tale can be scary on icy landings. Its also the # 1 way to snap your board, but I still do it with my rock boards. The stiffer the board, the more landing on the tale can launch you. This past weekend while i'm on my F2 Silberpfeil going off a jump, my friend hears, "WTF is he doing here with a race board." I can't wait to be able to land switch and 360s :D The burton bindings compared to the catek os1s seem to offer a bit more give on the landings, helping you from rattling your brains on a flatter landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Some pics from last week: tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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