Little Dude starting to Carve......

eaglez · March 24, 2008

Hey,

Here are a couple of vids of my 10 yr old on his 135 Burton FP. I know the vids are short and not the best quality. But, since I am not an instructor and I don't have any real snowboard theory to draw off of (other than what I have tried to absorb from this forum), I would appreciate any ideas that I could work on with my son. He wants to get more consistant with his turns and I have been working with him on body/knee/ankle/arm/heel/toe positions. But I know that there must be drills that we can work on that target each area. I am having trouble trying to convey all the body position changes in a way that doesn't confuse him (and me). So, let me know how you think he is doing so far. Any critique is good here.

Thanks

D. :biggthump

Ear dragger · March 24, 2008

thats great you've got him on an alpine board! First, his right shoulder is back, thats no good on an alpine board, try to get him to keep his shoulders facing forward, sort of like a skiers stance, he will become much more stable when his shoulder is not behind him, that technique he is doing is good for freestyle boarding, and powder. next, tell him to put his arms out in front of him like he's holding ski poles. that should be alot to deal with to start off. one more thing, where you look is where you're gonna go. when I'm in a carve, i look somewhat up the mountain or to the side and the board will just go there! It works really well, and is something to always remember, hope that helps, good luck and have some fun!

carvedog · March 24, 2008

His shoulders are fine for the speed he is going. Roughly over his feet. I look for hands roughly over feet in your low peripheral vision.

Looks like angles are high 30s low 40s?

Shoulders more square to the fall line is useful for more of a crossunder turn where you are using the energy stored in the board to help you make the turn. Slight upunweighting and recambering of the board is one of the sweetest feelings ever. :1luvu:

For him the primary concern is to get an upright stance especially on toe side. His hips need to be over his feet and they are back(toward the heelside).

With young carvers I love to introduce the ideas and have them practice the movements on the flat and then review before trying on the hill. Have them review back to you what they think they being asked to do to confirm understanding.

Cues to help.

1) Have him squish the tongues of his boots by pushing calf/lower leg into tongue of boot. Stick your finger in to his boot top and have him squish it (hopefully it is very snug and you are deforming the thick foam in the front of boot to do this). The chance to do legal bodily injury to Dad (or instructor) can be good motivation. Grimace in pain if appropriate. (Hey - it works with my 6 yr old) Try to bring in the idea of the knee going down. Or at least moving forward and down. If he is unable to flex the boot in any way this could be a problem.

Poor boot fit can cause toe turn and stance issues on toeside as well.

Ski boots with their lack of forward flex can cause more of a "tippy" style as they can't sink down in their boots very much to move the knee across the centerline of the board.

2) Hips moving over the feet. Have him stand sideways in a doorway with board on ( board perpendicular to door opening if that is not obvious) and towel on floor and move hips toward one side of door frame and then the other to bring board on edge. Practice same moves in review on the hill until his hip movement is helping to generate some edge angle along with the ankles (hopefully). With my kid I use medium sized ball. (in between basketball and softball or a pillow or one of those fart balloons on a pillow or??? ) placing it in front and behind her. We put down a towel and make it a fun little adventure. We actually practice quite a bit at of this at home. It seems to help a ton.

3) Up and down or vertical movement. Having up and down movements is a big part of unweighting. Or those little micro-moments when the board is light on the snow and the turn becomes effortless. I look for movement between the butt and the feet. So it is a combination of ankle, knee and hip flexion and extension. I used a bungee cord from back belt loop to edge of board ( I held it on and I have no idea what the liability on this one would be so don't try without safety equipment) but we weren't getting it super tight. Just 3-4 inches of stretch when she stood the tallest.

4) Flying your wing.This one is a little more advanced due to its abstraction. Not so much for at home but I always introduce the movement on the flat first and have them practice it enough that you know they get it. If dad/instructor is doing it along with them as part of a fun game it helps.

When I teach this I have them make a flat wing with elbows out to make humerus perpendicular to body and hands almost touching in front of their chest. The idea is that the flat line of their upper arms (at this point almost in front of their face) matches the surface of the snow in front of them. Its ok to make jet engine flying noises and machine gun sounds at this point.

Don't know if all that makes sense. I try to say what I am teaching in one short sentence or two. Ie. follow my line on a toeside travers and try to move your hips when I do. Young minds need simple chunks, one thing at a time, lots of play, and time to practice, a challenge and the reward of approval. And candy or cookies or the promise of a snowball fight or.....

In my teaching I applaud effort as much as accomplishment. Set small achievable goals.

Great job on getting him going on the hard set up. Good luck with everything. :biggthump

Bordy · March 24, 2008

I don't have any advise or tips cuz I think he is doing just fine! I would however recomend you teach him to not hug the right side or the trail. If his turn blows out he is woods bound......... Lots of grown ups do this also, it only takes on trip into the trees for them to stop.

Look where his board kicks up a little spray and think about if the edge fails where is he going. Then adjust him.

Have fun.

eaglez · March 25, 2008

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the great advice! We have started doing some dryland training at home that I think will help him on the hill. But unfortunately the season is almost over here in the east. But there is always next year.

The main thing is that he is loving it and wants to get better. And he is having fun learning, which is the most important thing.

And Bordy, everyone, including me has told him "you gotta use all the hill, not just the right edge" :lol: He gets it now and when we were studying the video where you saw that puff of snow, he understands where he would have ended up if his edge went bad right then. :eek: I had him read all of the posts you guys made. He was proud as a peacock to get some kudos from someone other than me. So thanks again.

D. :biggthump

ar(angel · March 25, 2008

That's what I told my son when I had him on his first alpine board at 8. I had him keep his chest to the front of the board and get in the "gun fighter" stance, knees slightly bent hands to his side like he was ready to "draw". As he would start down the hill I'd have him put slight pressure on his toes, than on his heels, back and forth until he was "wiggling" back and forth down the run. As he became more comfortable with the feeling of getting on edge I had him increase the amount of time he spent on the edge to lengthen and draw out his turns. By 10 he was carving pretty good turns both toe & heel and could make his way down our local Blue runs. I always tried to think of the motion I wanted him to make and than put it into terms he could easily grasp without using $10 words or talking over his head. I also used to make him do "emergency" stops both heel and toe to get used to slamming the board over hard in one quick motion to make sure he wasn't afraid of laying the board over. Here's a couple of pics of him between 8-10 years old. He started out on a 136cm Rossi Throttle, than moved on to a Burton FP135, and his current ride is a 148cm Renntiger. Good job passing on the stoke, keep up the good work!

eaglez · March 25, 2008

Great post Paul. I know that part of his problem is he is in ski boots right now. Next year he will probably be a 23.5 - 24 boot and I will get him a pair of proper snowboard boots. The flex just isn't there in skiboots and I can see it in his lack of forward leg motion. I noticed that your son has intec bindings. What size boots is he in now? Do you have anything that he has grown out of in 23.5-24 range?

Thanks.

D. :biggthump

ar(angel · March 25, 2008

I'm staring at his 22.5 Raichle 225's right now that he's out grown. The very boots in those pictures. The liners are 22.5's but the shells can be pushed out to 24 according to what is marked on them and what I've been told by members here. He actually started in his sisters old ski boots, so I understand where you're coming from. Let me know if you're interested and we'll work something out.

photodad2001 · March 25, 2008

Here's my daughter at age 7. I don't plan on getting her onto an alpine board until she's mastered the basics. She is on Rossi step-ins so she's on her way. Next year we are both going to compete.

eaglez · March 26, 2008

I'm staring at his 22.5 Raichle 225's right now that he's out grown. The very boots in those pictures. The liners are 22.5's but the shells can be pushed out to 24 according to what is marked on them and what I've been told by members here. He actually started in his sisters old ski boots, so I understand where you're coming from. Let me know if you're interested and we'll work something out.

Hey Paul,

I traced his feet tonight on a piece of paper and they are just under 23cm. So by next season he will definitely be too big for the liners in your sons old boots. Thanks for the offer though. I will put a post up on Wanted to see what is out there.

D. :biggthump

eaglez · March 26, 2008

Here's my daughter at age 7. I don't plan on getting her onto an alpine board until she's mastered the basics. She is on Rossi step-ins so she's on her way. Next year we are both going to compete.
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I can't wait until my daughter hits the board. She is six right now and has been skiing for 3 years. Boarding in a year or so, once she gets stronger.

But I have all the boards ready for both kids as they grow to need them. :biggthump

D. :biggthump

photodad2001 · March 26, 2008

But I have all the boards ready for both kids as they grow to need them.

I had an old Burton Punch I had bought on e-bay before my daughter was even born, (Just preparing for her future.) and by the time she was old enough to ride it I looked at it and went and bought her a new board. The board was about 5 years old and had only been riden the one year the previous owner had it, but it wasn't up to code. I'm way more picky about what she rides than I've ever been about what I ride. She likes the Rossi SIS boots and bindings because they are so easy to step in and out of, so I had to buy some progressing sizes to keep her on what she likes for the next few years.

eaglez · March 26, 2008

My son is riding the Blue Burton 135 FP on the left right now. It is an old board without much camber left in it. But he is having fun learning on it. The Yellow Fake 138 beside it is much stiffer and is much more lively. Each of those boards will work well for recreational riding. The Rossi Vas 156 on the right would be alright for rec racing as well. However, just in case he/she gets serious about riding, I also have this arriving this week. It is the 140 size. So, that officially puts the kids gear in first place compared to mine. I love buying gear for them! :D

D. :biggthump

Scuff · March 26, 2008

eaglez: Very cool vids! Thanks for posting.

We've got a couple (5 or so) riders on our alpine team

who are in the 8-9 year old range, though only 1 has

(and is able to race on) a full alpine setup.

Kudos to you for planning ahead and stockpiling gear.

Be mindful of where your little guy is looking.. Hopefully his eyes

do not drop to the nose of the board.. or at the snow just two feet ahead.

Something that our little groms get tired of hearing me say is, "Look up!" :smashfrea

Say you were riding in an automobile and happened to look

out the side window and down at the pavement whizzing-by..

Your speed hasn't changed, but you'd probably feel like you

were going pretty fast.

(And going fast is fun, right? - maybe that's why the

dropped-gaze is so popular with those starting out boarding.)

But if while driving in your car your eyes were directed

ahead and farther down the road, you will be able to not only

prepare for any obstacles, but you should also have a better

sense of your rate of speed.

Have fun! Maybe next season you can try this:

A game of follow-the-leader down the hill.

You toss up 1 arm, the other arm, or both at random - have him mimic,

so you know he's watching.

(Don't hog all the fun either - remember to switch it up so he can

have a turn driving the train.)

~Karl

eaglez · March 26, 2008

I had an old Burton Punch I had bought on e-bay before my daughter was even born, (Just preparing for her future.) and by the time she was old enough to ride it I looked at it and went and bought her a new board. The board was about 5 years old and had only been riden the one year the previous owner had it, but it wasn't up to code. I'm way more picky about what she rides than I've ever been about what I ride. She likes the Rossi SIS boots and bindings because they are so easy to step in and out of, so I had to buy some progressing sizes to keep her on what she likes for the next few years.

I just looked at your daughters vid again. She looks like she is having a blast out there. I have to tell you that when I watch her get some speed up, her lack of helmet makes me cringe. :eek: I hope she starts wearing one soon.

D. :biggthump

eaglez · March 26, 2008

Scuff - Thanks for the thoughts. I will focus on where he is looking next time out. I honestly never noticed where he he is looking before. I am going to ask him where he generally focuses on when riding. I generally ride behind him up until now due to the fact that if he has an issue I don't want to have to climb back up too far to help him out. But he is getting better now so I will lead more often.

D. :biggthump

big canuck · March 26, 2008

in your footsteps.

Dude, you're little guy is ruling.

Send your old "little stuff" my way when he's done. Very nice work.

My 3 year old races his hot wheels down my snowboards and loves my sticks!!!!

He's in fo sho.:biggthump:biggthump:biggthump

k

photodad2001 · March 26, 2008

I just looked at your daughters vid again. She looks like she is having a blast out there. I have to tell you that when I watch her get some speed up, her lack of helmet makes me cringe. I hope she starts wearing one soon.
D.

She has one but hates to wear it. I let her go without when we're just cruzin', but I don't take "no" for an answer when we've taken the occational venture through the snowboard park.

Have you seen this girl? She's amazing!!! Now this girl isn't weaing a helmet in the park, but has one on cruzing down the cords? That's backwards in my opinion, but what do I know?

dshack · March 26, 2008

That's amazing. Kid's going to own it in a few years.

Scuff · March 26, 2008

Have you seen this girl?

Oh yeah..Alexis totally rocks! (And usually *does* wear a helmet..btw.)

She and her Dad are both super-cool people. Much of the rail

footage in that clip (:55 sec) was shot at Hyland Hills here in

Minnesota so I often see her out on the hill and at the local comps.

You can appreciate how controlled she is, but what you

can't fully appreciate in the video is how small she is in comparison to

all the other riders on the hill. :biggthump

eaglez · March 26, 2008

Oh yeah..Alexis totally rocks! (And usually *does* wear a helmet..btw.)
She and her Dad are both super-cool people. Much of the rail

footage in that clip (:55 sec) was shot at Hyland Hills here in

Minnesota so I often see her out on the hill and at the local comps.

You can appreciate how controlled she is, but what you

can't fully appreciate in the video is how small she is in comparison to

all the other riders on the hill.

She is amazing. In one part of the vid she is standing beside and adult who is crouching on one knee to talk to her. She is tiny!

D. :biggthump

Steve Prokopiw · March 27, 2008

Oh my God! She is great! Maybe competition would take the fun out but she looks like she would school most boys her size and age.Wow!

photodad2001 · March 27, 2008

Oh my God! She is great! Maybe competition would take the fun out but she looks like she would school most boys her size and age.Wow!

She'd school most guys and gals her age and up to 10 and be a formidable force on any given day at my local slope.

kinpa · March 27, 2008

My daughter is 6 and has been on her snowboard about maybe 6 times so far. I was going to make her wait until 8, but she talked me into it. She's got a freestyle type board with Jr. Drake plate bindings and uses her ski boots in them. So far, we've only been down the green run from the chair lift two times. Both times I was on my skiis going behind her and supporting her in a hoola-hoop. She's got great balance and I think she may be getting over her fear of falling (she hardly ever falls on her skiis), but she lacks confidence. I'm surprised that when given the choice, she picks her snowboard over her skiis, but I guess that's ok! I don't mind helping her still, but I don't always have a chance to do it. She'll get there.... no rush! I know she watches everyone and soaks it all in. Sometimes she surprises me by trying something we had never even talked about!

photodad2001 · March 27, 2008

My daughter is 6 and has been on her snowboard about maybe 6 times so far. I was going to make her wait until 8, but she talked me into it. She's got a freestyle type board with Jr. Drake plate bindings and uses her ski boots in them. So far, we've only been down the green run from the chair lift two times. Both times I was on my skiis going behind her and supporting her in a hoola-hoop. She's got great balance and I think she may be getting over her fear of falling (she hardly ever falls on her skiis), but she lacks confidence. I'm surprised that when given the choice, she picks her snowboard over her skiis, but I guess that's ok! I don't mind helping her still, but I don't always have a chance to do it. She'll get there.... no rush! I know she watches everyone and soaks it all in. Sometimes she surprises me by trying something we had never even talked about!

Does your local slope have a "magic carpet"? It's like when you go to the grocery store and put your stuff on the "belt". It takes you up without the lift. I tried once to take my, at the time, 5 year old on lift access slopes with a ski harness and that was miserable. It wasn't fun for either of us. I found if I backed off and lowered my "expectations" she grew faster on her own. Best advice I could give, being through it myself, is keep it fun, don't critisize, keep it fun, envolve others that she knows, keep it fun, get hot chocolate and whatever she wants from the lodge, keep it fun, buy her stuff from the ski shop when she makes a "break through", keep it fun, and this is most important.... keep it fun.

Little Dude starting to Carve......

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