John Bell Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 OK, so the consensus is that after you hot-wax, you scrape off as much as you can, leaving only the wax that has seeped into the P-Tex. But obviously, riding somehow removes the wax, making it necessary to reapply it. So how is it that scraping off as much as you can before riding is good (and that some is still impregnated in the base), but that sliding on snow---which is much softer than a plexiglas or plastic scraper (or a credit card, which is what I use)--somehow removes so much wax from deep in the base that we have to put more on? Am I making sense with this question? Here I am scraping hard with a plastic card to get excess wax off the base--and the whole reason I put any on there is that a softer material (snow) has scraped off the wax that was there before! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 I'll venture a guess. 1) If you don't scrape off the excess, you'll be base high. 2) Wax as applied is not flat or smooth. If you could apply a thin, uniform layer of wax, you shouldn't have to scrape. But so far as I know, there isn't a way for a DIY waxer to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 If you could apply a thin, uniform layer of wax, you shouldn't have to scrape. But so far as I know, there isn't a way for a DIY waxer to do this. wax whizard, do a search on it. no more scraping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 straight wax is slow on snow and snow is not softer than plexiglass, ice crystals are pretty abrasive, they just feel soft due to the size of the crystals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted February 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 wax whizard, do a search on it. no more scraping. With all due respect, I did do a search and did read all about that device. I'm asking about the principle behind wax removal. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted February 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 straight wax is slow on snow and snow is not softer than plexiglass, ice crystals are pretty abrasive, they just feel soft due to the size of the crystals Interesting. OK, I can see that they'd be more abrasive than they seem to the touch--but surely not more than a hard plastic scraper, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Plastic scraper you use for 5min on the base. Base runs on the snow whole day, day after day, at the speed and pressure greater then those applied by the scraper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted February 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 I knew an engineer would chime in eventually. That totally makes sense now. Thanks for all the replies.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 I'm going to recommend an experiment. I see you're from NYC, so take a trip to your favorite tri-state resort, ie Mountain Creek, Hunter, Camelback etc. When you get to the top, take off all of your clothes, then ride down the mountain. Every time you pick up any significant speed, hurl yourself forward onto the snow. Make sure you slide good and far on your stomach and genitals - steeper trails work the best. Do that all day. Bleeding yet? Be nice to your snowboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebu Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 You want just a teeny tiny little microfilm of wax over your ptex. As the snow takes it away the wax in the pores of the ptex gets deposited in it's place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted March 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Weird, wild stuff. A cool thing for a manufacturer to do--Sean, Bruce, Chris, y'all reading this?--would be to take the sheets of p-tex and then soak them in a tub of heated wax before installation; that way the wax would be in there from the get-go. Or maybe someone's already thought of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddman Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 P-tex is faster than wax, the wax keeps the water cushion tension high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Just want to second the wax wizard. Faster, cheaper, easier, and better wax impregnation. I have no idea how the wax goes from within the base to ??? (where does it go anyway?) but it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Weird, wild stuff.A cool thing for a manufacturer to do--Sean, Bruce, Chris, y'all reading this?--would be to take the sheets of p-tex and then soak them in a tub of heated wax before installation; that way the wax would be in there from the get-go. Or maybe someone's already thought of this. I'm no expert, but wouldn't that cause problems getting the ptex to bind to the bottom of the core??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted March 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 I'm no expert, but wouldn't that cause problems getting the ptex to bind to the bottom of the core??? DOH! Maybe they could use a real thick slice of the stuff and leave the top half sticking above the "water line" of the hot wax. There ya go! Um, yeah, I avoided chemistry all through school. And physics. Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 I'm going to recommend an experiment. I see you're from NYC, so take a trip to your favorite tri-state resort, ie Mountain Creek, Hunter, Camelback etc. When you get to the top, take off all of your clothes, then ride down the mountain. Every time you pick up any significant speed, hurl yourself forward onto the snow. Make sure you slide good and far on your stomach and genitals - steeper trails work the best. Do that all day. Bleeding yet? Be nice to your snowboard. Shouldn't he first hot wax himself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spil Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Shouldn't he first hot wax himself? Then Scrape it off to make sure it is only in his pores... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bell Posted March 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Shouldn't he first hot wax himself? Photodad, if I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times: Leave my bikini line out of this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 From Tongar.com What Is Structure?As a ski or snowboard slides over snow crystals, heat is created due to friction. This heat, in turn, creates water droplets by melting the tips of the snow crystals. Water is the key to bases that are fast and easier to turn, but only if the correct amount is present under your skis or snowboard. If the snow and humidity is very dry, there may not be enough water present to help improve glide. In this case, it may need to be produced through greater friction between the snow and a base with a smooth or fine structured finish. When snow is warm or wet, however, excess water can be generated underfoot that creates suction and slows your glide. In this situation, the base should be structured with a pattern, which, similar to tire tread, breaks up suction and helps channel water away. In general, a finer structure with base rills or ridges spaced .5mm or less apart is best for cold, dry snow...and a coarser structure with base rills or ridges spaced .75mm or more apart is best for warmer wet snow. Another rule of thumb is that the rills or ridges should never be larger than one-half the size of the snow crystals...this avoids crystals from getting stuck in the troughs of the structure and creating drag. Structuring can make more difference in speed than waxing, according to world cup technicians. It can also make a board or ski easier to turn for recreational riders. Electra (black) bases don't need as deep a structure as a clear sintered base since they develop less heat overall...and fluorocarbon waxes also work well with a finer structure due to their greater water repellancy. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Photodad, if I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times:Leave my bikini line out of this thread! Just didn't want any em-"bare-ass"-ing, wild growing shrubberies zooming down the hill. Did he say "shrubberies"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photodad2001 Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Then Scrape it off to make sure it is only in his pores... Since it's not P-tex, just rip it off (along with any unsightly hair) in one big yank!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spil Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Since it's not P-tex, just rip it off (along with any unsightly hair) in one big yank!!! Whatever you do to get that hair off, do it. Strait from the source of World Cup quality tunes, the Precision Tuning Center: It is proven that a base with a virtually hairless finish from proper stone grinding is the first step in slowing down the onset of abrasion. These guys must have a lot of experience getting rid of hairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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