trailertrash Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I recently got some insoles from Erik Beckman up at Sugarloaf and they are really worth the money. If you have pain in your feet these may help. I also noticed it fixed a pain I had in the lower outsides of my shins just above the ankle. The first thing I noticed while riding (a 4x4) was that it made the board feel much narrower and transitions a lot quicker. They can be used in ski boots or softboots as well. If you are thinking about it definatly go for it. If you want Erik's contact info email me. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted April 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Ken, Any method somebody can use at home to determine if they are needed? One thing Erik did while fitting me was have me stand on one foot on the insole. He would tune the insole so that it was easier to stand on. In the end it took less work to balance while standing on one foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I have these (also from Beckman). I used to think they were a luxury, now I consider them mandatory equipment, I wouldn't ride without them. When I first got them I was amazed at how quiet and relaxed my feet became, and how planted and connected to the board I felt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 master bootfitter, Gordo, came up with these: http://www.aline.com/Default.aspx?Page=wContact met the rest of his crew at the screening of TGR's Anomaly at the Roxy and they're onto something here. Based in Jack's hometown...tell 'em willywhit sent ya... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 pimpin', got tha hook up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wibby Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 if you cannot afford Orthotics at the very least buy some Superfeet insoles, well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 KenW's advice sounds right to me. I believe that some people need fully customized footbeds but most can get by with something more off-the-shelf. The profit margin on the customized footbeds must be huge. When you look at what they are made of and the amount of labor to custom fit them, it doesn't justify the price. It amazes me that in some cases, you buy a pair of boots for $500, take out the liners & footbeds, purchase custom molded footbeds & liners and wind up with what you should have received with the $500 boots to start with. Is it necessary to buy both heat-moldable footbeds and heat-moldable liners to acheive comfort? Why can't this be accomplished with just the liners? I think some bootfitters give you value for your investment & other "ski shops" just want to sell you expensive footbeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Is it necessary to buy both heat-moldable footbeds and heat-moldable liners to acheive comfort? Why can't this be accomplished with just the liners? I have ridden moldable liners with no footbeds. Worked fine. I had the fitter at bachelor tell me I had a basically neutral stance (aside from some right foot splay...probably due to a never addressed knee injury)... but...for some..its not comfort...its precision alignment, and proper footbeds obviously help yes, plenty of SALES going on, just like any other sport...its up to the consumer to decide what he or she needs after investigating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 KenW's advice sounds right to me. I believe that some people need fully customized footbeds but most can get by with something more off-the-shelf. I was told I have fairly "normal" feet. My orthotics work wonders. The profit margin on the customized footbeds must be huge. When you look at what they are made of and the amount of labor to custom fit them, it doesn't justify the price. When I got mine made, the guy spent about 2 hours with me and I paid $150. I'd say that's fair. He's out the materials, some electricity to run the oven and vacuum pump, his time plus probably a half hour of prep/cleanup... and they ride like $150. It amazes me that in some cases, you buy a pair of boots for $500, take out the liners & footbeds, purchase custom molded footbeds & liners and wind up with what you should have received with the $500 boots to start with. I've heard that the shell molds for one boot size cost over $20,000 to make. Is it necessary to buy both heat-moldable footbeds and heat-moldable liners to acheive comfort? Why can't this be accomplished with just the liners? Using just moldable liners is probably an improvement over stock liners and stock insoles. However I believe most people either pronate or suppinate some amount, which can only be corrected with some kind of structure underfoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Ken,Any method somebody can use at home to determine if they are needed? One thing Erik did while fitting me was have me stand on one foot on the insole. He would tune the insole so that it was easier to stand on. In the end it took less work to balance while standing on one foot. Stand upright and evenly on both feet and have someone look at your legs from behind. Ideally you should have both achilles tendons straight and vertical. if there is any deviation in the tendon one way or the other then you have pronation or supination and need an orthotic. this would apply for your normal shoes as well. Another way would be to look at your old shoe soles and note wether or not the wear on the heels is even or onesided. NEXT sit on a chair in such a way as to be able to stand without moving your feet. have someone watch your medial arches as you stand. If the space between your arch and the floor decreases significantly or more on one side than the other then you need orthotics. Again you need them in your shoes as well as snowboard gear. Even someone with good arches and neutral stance would benefit from orthotics provide they are not the ridgid variety. I don't believe that ridgid orthotics are really a good idea for the reasons already discussed. your arches need more than support they need to be able to flex and move. for that reason I recommend a "soft" orthotic. these are made out of a hard foam and have a fairly strong level of support but still enough flex to allow the arches to work as they were designed to. I use Footlevelers and Amfit in my office with a good deal of success. I would lean toward the amfits for winter sports activities. They are also quite affordable. the average set of amfits runs my patients $145 vs the 300+ you might pay at a pediatrist. I find that ridgid orthotics hinder motion enough to effect the mobility of the spine and that the softer variety quite often reduces low back pain issues significantly in patients with unstable feet. Email me if you have any further questions. I would also be happy to send out a mold to you if anyone wants a pair. in defense of the shameless plug I will discount them %25 to the bomber family. In addition to general support it is possible to make changes that are beneficial to heavier riders, diabetics, corns, bunions, hammertoes etc. I would need a tracing of the footbed currently in the shoe or boot along with the mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseman Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 First, another thumbs up for Erik. Made me footbeds last year and the difference was significant. The price was slightly below competition and taking the time, materials and equipment into consideration I don't think the hourly rate was anything more than one would expect to pay for a professional service. Further thumbs up for being THE on mountain resource for technique, binding setup, boot work and everything else carving related at Sugarloaf. Second, I agree with D-Sub that it's not necessarily about comfort. For me the difference was in performance. Solid feeling, groundedness, or something like that. Basically, I felt like I was floating in my thermoflexes until I had the footbeds. The liners were extremely comfortable, but I felt like I was riding on them instead of the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 I have a bit of research around here somewhere that shows 5-10% improvement when orthotics were worn by the golfer. A solid foundation yields a solid reproduceable swing:biggthump I personally shaved 4-5 strokes off my game when I started wearing them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 I have long arches, so custom footbeds are the ticket for me. I went from my feet always being a little uncomfortable and having some cramping issues to just pure comfort. From now on the cost of footbeds will get figured into the cost of the boot - a nicer boot just isn't worth it to me without them. This coming year I plan to put them in my soft boots as well. For the record I have custom corks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 I guess I should be sponsored by the liner makers out there, but I just don't get how anyone can ride in stock footbeds and liners. I understand it I guess and I know folks can ride really well that way. going from stock to a good footbed and liner (foam injected for me) is like going from a stock sports car to Formula 1. It is not cheap but my feet are so happy, at the beginning of the day to the end. One warm up run with not too tight of buckles and then crank em down and go. Maybe I am just a gear slut, but if you don't want to spend more on this sport don't ever try them 'cause you won't go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshack Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 I was going to get some custom insoles to deal with my collapsing arches, but I've got a question: are there alternatives to buying isoles straight from the bootfitting shop? It seems like I've seen heat-moldable ones on the internet for around $50; if you pay for a bootfitting, would a fitter be willing to mold these for you as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 I was going to get some custom insoles to deal with my collapsing arches, but I've got a question: are there alternatives to buying isoles straight from the bootfitting shop? It seems like I've seen heat-moldable ones on the internet for around $50; if you pay for a bootfitting, would a fitter be willing to mold these for you as well? I don't know why not. they will mold your bladders for you. I suspect that its 6 of one and half dozen of the other though since most will mold for free if you buy from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Has anyone tried WalkFit insoles in their boots? I've heard mixed reactions to their effectiveness but I don't know anyone that has tried them in snowboard boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needanswer Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 I was going to get some custom insoles to deal with my collapsing arches, but I've got a question: are there alternatives to buying isoles straight from the bootfitting shop? It seems like I've seen heat-moldable ones on the internet for around $50; if you pay for a bootfitting, would a fitter be willing to mold these for you as well? If it's molded and fit your foot that's going to be more comfortable than something generic. However, if your foot is not neutral (i.e. exhibit the symptoms describe by DR.D above), then the thing molded to the shape of your foot is also not neutral, and it won't get the best balance. dshack, I think if you feet is not neutral, the person molding the insole would need to make adjustment. I'm not sure how many people do that besides pediatrist(sp) or even if that's possible for a moldable insole . Dr. D , are you a pediatrist (sp)? I got some question regarding moldable insole. I have the hard type of orthotics which works great if you're just standing around. my right arch is fallen/weak. Even after creating the hard insole which is custom molded, my pediatrist added more plastic to increase my arch. I don't suppose you can add more foam to a molded foam insole or am I wrong? -edited 1st paragraph : bad to not neutral to be more specific Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 If it's molded and fit your foot that's going to be more comfortable than something generic. However, if your foot is not neutral (i.e. exhibit the symptoms describe by DR.D above), then the thing molded to the shape of your foot is also not neutral, and it won't get the best balance. dshack, I think if you feet is not neutral, the person molding the insole would need to make adjustment. I'm not sure how many people do that besides pediatrist(sp) or even if that's possible for a moldable insole . Dr. D , are you a pediatrist (sp)? I got some question regarding moldable insole. I have the hard type of orthotics which works great if you're just standing around. my right arch is fallen/weak. Even after creating the hard insole which is custom molded, my pediatrist added more plastic to increase my arch. I don't suppose you can add more foam to a molded foam insole or am I wrong? -edited 1st paragraph : bad to not neutral to be more specific I am a Chiropractor and I deal with orthotics regularly because Of spinal stability issues. As I previously said the hard orthotics favored by pediatrists are not the best for your spine I prefer the softer models for that reason. when an orthotic is made from a mold, the patients (oddities/imbalances) are recorded in the mold. the mold is then scanned and set to neutral via a program similiar to CAD any necessary arch increases are added by me or the Doctor doing the work. I can also make allowances for all the little things mentioned in the previous post.(bunions etc.) The mold and Rx are sent off to AMfit who then cuts the orthotic out of a solid block of foam with a CNC router. the topsheet of your choice is glued on and they are sent back to me. Most bootfitters are going to mold to you and do some rudimentary leveling. you will get more stability but not necessarily anatomically correct. Adjustments are made to the orthotic as its being made to either support or correct indinvidual problems. I would suggest that ,short of the high end specific stores, this isn't being done most places. Just to clarify the mold I am talking about is made of your foot. the mold is then used to model your foot on a computer program at which point necessary adjustments can be made to support your foot in whatever way is necessary. the end result of these changes is then cut out of a solid block of foam by the computer using a CNC router. Cool stuff to watch. the end result is an orthotic that brings your foot neutral and supports your arches sufficiently but still has flex and give to it so that your feet can move and flex normally. hard orthotics don't allow the flex to occur properly in my opinion. here is a link to the company I currently prefer showint the mold. digital scanners are also used and the company makes both ridgid and semiridgid orthotics (hard and soft) http://amfit.com/products/casting.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted April 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Dr D, can you run in those? If you do, will they break down sooner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest needanswer Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Dr. D. Thanks for the info; I concur with you on the hard orthotics issue - they're pretty good until you run for hours with them. another thing bad about the hard orthotics is that it needs an additional flat foam insole on top of it, that adds up to more space and makes some shoe quite tight. I wonder how long those foam insoles last. Most soft insoles I've used had a 1-yr life span, I guess it's probably similar (foam is foam). I wonder if amfit can save your data and cut you a new one every year. also, I wonder if my cheap A$$ insurance would help me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Dr D, can you run in those? If you do, will they break down sooner? I recomend them for running actually and they have roughly a 2 yr lifespan. they are relatively hard foam so less wear than a softer one. you would need a seperate set for running shoes as the hard boot ones would be very narrow compared to a shoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 guys...its pOdiatrist. Pediatrics is the study of children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Whether you have problems or not, custom orthos are the way to go IMO. I have neutral feet, although you would not think so if you saw my gait. I run medical orthotics in all of my boots. They make a HUGE difference. From time to time, I have taken them out just to see the difference. A few runs later, I always end up taking a break to go put them back in. Medical orthos cost more, but you really should check with your insurance to see if they will cover them. Then you just have to talk your Dr. into prescribing them. My orthotist did both the impression foam and the computer model of my feet on different occasions (Dr. D posted pics of both). Then they took my boots and custom made the orthos to fit the boots and my feet. The problem with that is that when you get new boots, they have to be the same as the old ones. It may not be the end of the world if the boots are different, but I could tell the difference when I changed soft boots. For hardboots, I just keep buying UPZ and make the assumption that they don't change anything...I hope. All of the orthos that I have are the soft ones that Dr. D speaks of. My orthotist has my feet on file so that they can just make new orthos as needed, but they recommend that you go back in and do new impression foam or get scanned at least every five years because your feet do change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Dr. D , are you a pediatrist (sp)? pediatrist - from the greek pedia (sounds like pethia) for someone who ?heals children podiatrist - from the greek podia ( sounds like pothia) for someone who works on feet. cheiros - greek for hands ( sounds like kiros) chiropody - odd UK term for podiatrist meaning someone who uses their hands to heal feet. chiropracter - from Montana, means someone who lays the trench upon the carvalicious Mt cord. Good advice from our brother to the north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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