orthotics/insoles get them.

[Phil]

Maybe he meant Pedorthist..?

[Guest needanswer]

Maybe he meant Pedorthist..?

I meant podiatrist. I blame Dr.D for getting it wrong 1st ;)

[dshack]

In terms of custom insoles, has anyone tried a brand that didn't work for them? I've heard good things about superfeet, aline, and conform'ables, and mixed things about SOLE. Anyone used multiple brands and formed a preference?

[Dr D]

I meant podiatrist. I blame Dr.D for getting it wrong 1st ;)

uhh yeah what he said:freak3:

anyone who has read my posts knows that punctuation and spelling are severe hinderances to my typing abilities:eplus2:

[Dr D]

Interesting study but it does seem to prove my point that its not just a foot thing. they didn't look at the spine and back issues at all. Its to bad but medicine is so specialized they tend to forget that there is a body attached to that foot. I would have to suggest that the benefits of any orthotic outweigh none and the benefits of a custom outweigh those of a prefabricated insole.

the benefits aren't strictly confined to the feet. Its a foundational thing. If you are stable the rest of the body mechanics work better than if you are unstable at the foundation.

http://footlevelers.com/human_body/how_spinal_pelvic.php

here's a brief description of the biomechanics involved as found on the website of the other brand I use.

[Dr D]

In terms of custom insoles, has anyone tried a brand that didn't work for them? I've heard good things about superfeet, aline, and conform'ables, and mixed things about SOLE. Anyone used multiple brands and formed a preference?

AS far as prefab ones go superfeet are great.

Anything from walmart not so hot, in fact they suck:smashfrea

[Dr D]

KenW's advice sounds right to me. I believe that some people need fully customized footbeds but most can get by with something more off-the-shelf.QUOTE] the key word would be "get by" there is a definite performance benefit to a custom.

Is it necessary to buy both heat-moldable footbeds and heat-moldable liners to acheive comfort? Why can't this be accomplished with just the liners?

QUOTE]

Its a density thing! the proper density to give you good comfort and snugfit on a liner isn't dens enough to properly support your weight in your arches. An unsupported arch makes a longer wider foot so if you have fit issues that involve those areas you might really benefit from a custom just in the fit alone.

[John E]

Dr D. - Thanks for the info. My main fit & comfort complaint is that I have narrow (B) width feet and my big toe usually winds up pushing against the front of the boot. Is it likely that an arch support would "shorten" my foot & help prevent this?

[carvedog]

This should stir up some interesting conversation...

Custom Made Orthotic Devices No Better than Off the Shelf

This would seem to apply more to someone marching than charging hard on a snowboard with plastic shells around our pods.??? If you don't see the advantage of a custom bed then leave the stock generic one in there.

I know for a fact that my custom footbeds help me to ride better. And if the good Dr is willing to give a discount to bombers you guys should take him up on it. No kidding. You will like it. And your feet will like it. And you may end up riding better.

Why would you just want to "get by" with something??? I don' get it. Don't wait five more years to find out what you been missing in comfort and performance. And if the footbed works then try the liner and find out what performance is really about. Don't say I didn't tell you so.

Ok I am done now.

[Guest needanswer]

Dr D. - Thanks for the info. My main fit & comfort complaint is that I have narrow (B) width feet and my big toe usually winds up pushing against the front of the boot. Is it likely that an arch support would "shorten" my foot & help prevent this?

It did shorten my foot and also make my foot less wide.

I like that because without them I'm wider than 4E , with them, I can fit into 4E.

[Guest needanswer]

Interesting study but it does seem to prove my point that its not just a foot thing. they didn't look at the spine and back issues at all. Its to bad but medicine is so specialized they tend to forget that there is a body attached to that foot..

I was thinking the same thing; without my orthotics, my knees were hurting.

I even play basketball with the hard orthotics. Even though the soles hurt, it's much better than knee pain. now, I'm be looking into the soft ones.

Dr.D, that picture with the crooked skeleton is a static view. what I realized after getting the orthotics is that they make you stand straight (instead of out of balance) However, when the body is moving, the picture is more complicated.

From years of having a fallen arch, my hip has grown accustom to it and my knee points inward because of that. With the orthotics, I'm standing balanced, but when I move, my knee is still prefers to point inward. Hence, sometimes it feels like the leg is fighting against the orthotic. I get the feeling that if I fix the problem at the feet level, I would eventually see problems higher up like hips and outer ankel , outer knee.

Kinda wish my parents corrected the problem when I was young.

[Horseman]

I would say that footbeds treat the symptom and not the cause. Our bodies have all been used and abused to varying degrees throughout our lives and the result is usually some degree of misalignment or assymmetry in our structures.

A friend of mine was reluctant to get footbeds for running because of the "treating the symptom" outlook. But I had to tell him to just deal with the reality of the situation. If you are committed, you can start to deal with the underlying causes through various means (chiropracty, rolfing, etc.) but being structurally screwed up is not wrong, it's just a fact of life for everyone to a greater or lesser degree.

[Dr D]

Dr D. - Thanks for the info. My main fit & comfort complaint is that I have narrow (B) width feet and my big toe usually winds up pushing against the front of the boot. Is it likely that an arch support would "shorten" my foot & help prevent this?

generally speaking that is the case yes. IF it is more pronounced on one foot you will probably find that the arch is collapsed on that side more than the other.

[Dr D]

I was thinking the same thing; without my orthotics, my knees were hurting.

I even play basketball with the hard orthotics. Even though the soles hurt, it's much better than knee pain. now, I'm be looking into the soft ones.

Dr.D, that picture with the crooked skeleton is a static view. what I realized after getting the orthotics is that they make you stand straight (instead of out of balance) However, when the body is moving, the picture is more complicated.

From years of having a fallen arch, my hip has grown accustom to it and my knee points inward because of that. With the orthotics, I'm standing balanced, but when I move, my knee is still prefers to point inward. Hence, sometimes it feels like the leg is fighting against the orthotic. I get the feeling that if I fix the problem at the feet level, I would eventually see problems higher up like hips and outer ankel , outer knee.

Kinda wish my parents corrected the problem when I was young.

:lol: ah ha! ah ha! that would be correct grasshopper:)

You also need a good chiropractor to fix the misalignments and help your body rebalance. It is likely that your knee or knees need adjusted as well as your spine based on what you have described.

you are right about movement complicating the picture. That would be the main reason for a less ridgid orthotic because the arches need to flex and move to adapt to the changes occurring during motion.

[Dr D]

I would say that footbeds treat the symptom and not the cause. Our bodies have all been used and abused to varying degrees throughout our lives and the result is usually some degree of misalignment or assymmetry in our structures.

A friend of mine was reluctant to get footbeds for running because of the "treating the symptom" outlook. But I had to tell him to just deal with the reality of the situation. If you are committed, you can start to deal with the underlying causes through various means (chiropracty, rolfing, etc.) but being structurally screwed up is not wrong, it's just a fact of life for everyone to a greater or lesser degree.

Yes and no the feet in this case may not be the initial cause but the they are contributing heavily to the continuation of the problem. I quite often find that I get the spine problems cleared up and then have difficulty maintaining that status because of foot instability. A set of orthotics then solves the problem. Something like golf is different. you actually get a measureable improvement in your game because its a consistency game and stability lends itself to constistency quite well. so anyone golfing would benefit in that way. they would just not have prescription changes in the orthotic.

[kipstar]

I actually did my own set with a store staff guy assisting as i knew what I wanted; my feet suck so I have found that orthodics prevent a few key things:

- my foot collapsing inside, and causing the top of my foot to hurt when I starting to move around in the boot

- pain on the big toe

- my foot sliding around inside the boot

- pain on the outside little toe

- pain in the back and knees

By having decent footbeds, my foot is locked, and pressure through the boot transmits throughout my foot, not just the heel and forefoot bits.

Some footbeds are based on standing on a heated platform, with your arch then setting the shape of the bed, and that is flicked into the boot. I think the ones I have now theoretically are made like that. Waste of time; the arch starts collapsing quite fast as the rigidity of the foam isn't enough to support body weight, and anyway, my foot collapses already so the mold needs to be of my foot without my weight on it, not when it is already collapsed as happens when I am standing up.

So.... how I did it to save the store time was give them some beers, and pay for the materials, but do the work myself, as they only knew the comformable way which at least for me makes no sense... use their oven to heat them up; use their molding thing, but stay seated and keep weight off my feet, but keep the shins just leaning marginally forward, to get the neutral foot position. Once the beds were hard, trace out the shape of the inner onto the liner, and cut them down with scissors. Then find some hard foam, and glue it into all the hollows, then grind the whole mess down to flat on the bottom; flat on the side of the arch. Cover the whole thing in duct tape around the base.

And the boot beds have been good to go with some minor heating and resetting for like 12 years.

Of course, the cork ones have all that sorted already because they have the whole volume thing going on underneath. And a decent boot fitter does all this stuff for you; the guy Corky I think his name was in Mammoth was excellent; another guy Kevin? I think it is is also great. Hard to find those guys sometimes, so hence doing it yourself is option 2.

[nekdut]

And a decent boot fitter does all this stuff for you; the guy Corky I think his name was in Mammoth was excellent; another guy Kevin? I think it is is also great. Hard to find those guys sometimes, so hence doing it yourself is option 2.

Good call Kipstar, its Cordy and Kevin, they are both at Footloose, or were actually. Cordy still owns/runs the place, but I think Kevin is no longer there, and went to learn about making medical orthotics in Reno actually.

[Dr D]

I actually did my own set with a store staff guy assisting as i knew what I wanted; my feet suck so I have found that orthodics prevent a few key things:

- my foot collapsing inside, and causing the top of my foot to hurt when I starting to move around in the boot

- pain on the big toe

- my foot sliding around inside the boot

- pain on the outside little toe

- pain in the back and knees

By having decent footbeds, my foot is locked, and pressure through the boot transmits throughout my foot, not just the heel and forefoot bits.

Some footbeds are based on standing on a heated platform, with your arch then setting the shape of the bed, and that is flicked into the boot. I think the ones I have now theoretically are made like that. Waste of time; the arch starts collapsing quite fast as the rigidity of the foam isn't enough to support body weight, and anyway, my foot collapses already so the mold needs to be of my foot without my weight on it, not when it is already collapsed as happens when I am standing up.

So.... how I did it to save the store time was give them some beers, and pay for the materials, but do the work myself, as they only knew the comformable way which at least for me makes no sense... use their oven to heat them up; use their molding thing, but stay seated and keep weight off my feet, but keep the shins just leaning marginally forward, to get the neutral foot position. Once the beds were hard, trace out the shape of the inner onto the liner, and cut them down with scissors. Then find some hard foam, and glue it into all the hollows, then grind the whole mess down to flat on the bottom; flat on the side of the arch. Cover the whole thing in duct tape around the base.

And the boot beds have been good to go with some minor heating and resetting for like 12 years.

Of course, the cork ones have all that sorted already because they have the whole volume thing going on underneath. And a decent boot fitter does all this stuff for you; the guy Corky I think his name was in Mammoth was excellent; another guy Kevin? I think it is is also great. Hard to find those guys sometimes, so hence doing it yourself is option 2.

you have just described a homemade AMFIT. they are molded in the seated position rather than the standing position for the reasons you stated more or less and the foam is a relatively hard foam with full "volume" underneath to a flat bottom surface. topsheet material varies from leather to neoprene to plastazote to dryz etc depending on your preference.

you have the right idea but it seems like a lot of work what did it cost you out of curiosity?

[dshack]

How high volume are alines, compared to other beds?

[kipstar]

It ended up costing me I think it was $45 kiwi which is about $30 USD for the bits and a dozen beers.

And about 2 hours of sitting around, talking rubbish, and doing the work.

The foam is a better way to go for sure (as is cork) but my way was what was possible at the time. With only being in USA a few days at a time, I don't want to lose a day off the slopes doing boots or the inevitable tweaks; and nights away from casinos, bars and places with women of loose moral standing, well I just don't have the time!

[Dr D]

:lol:

It ended up costing me I think it was $45 kiwi which is about $30 USD for the bits and a dozen beers.

And about 2 hours of sitting around, talking rubbish, and doing the work.

The foam is a better way to go for sure (as is cork) but my way was what was possible at the time. With only being in USA a few days at a time, I don't want to lose a day off the slopes doing boots or the inevitable tweaks; and nights away from casinos, bars and places with women of loose moral standing, well I just don't have the time!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dave ESPI]

AS a child Ihad "Foot/ shoe problems". I have a narrow foot that gets wide at the toes and is very angular. Finding shoes and boots that fit right was a chore.

Eventualy I got comfortable and used some insoles to help with my foot arch.

How does this translate to Snowboarding ?

I ride oldschool 1990's AIRWALK softboots because the cut of the toe section is perfect for my foot. I slide a small arch support under the bottom boot bed as they are really FLAT. With Hardboots, perhaps I just lucked out, but the stock liners and shape of the Head Stratos boots I got. They fit me like a glove and are hella comfortable. The only issue I have is a little bit of ankle rub from the pivot point, ad some shin abrasion when going through rough chop, but that is going to happen no matter what.