to trade it in...or drive it into the ground

[ncermak]

Looking for some cheap financial advice. I am putting about 2000 miles a month on my car mostly highway. I have 2 years left on the loan, The blue book value is right about what I owe. It is a 2006 Chevy HHR, with 31K on it already.

The questions

1. Am I better off trading it in now, while it has some value, or keeping it

2. Is a hybrid worth it. keep in mind that I don't care about the power concerns, just fuel economy.

The one other factor is that the Girlfiend's car has a questionable lifespan...but she drives very little (10-20 miles/day)

[C5 Golfer]

Trade that guy in on a BMW 3 series coupe. Add 4WD if you need it, get the 6 speed manual tranny, and have a blast while driving 2K a month. All service including wipers and oil changes are free. Great resale value - my $.02

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/default

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/328xicoupe/

[tex1230]

Looking for some cheap financial advice. I am putting about 2000 miles a month on my car mostly highway. I have 2 years left on the loan, The blue book value is right about what I owe. It is a 2006 Chevy HHR, with 31K on it already.

The questions

1. Am I better off trading it in now, while it has some value, or keeping it

2. Is a hybrid worth it. keep in mind that I don't care about the power concerns, just fuel economy.

The one other factor is that the Girlfiend's car has a questionable lifespan...but she drives very little (10-20 miles/day)

I don't think you'll see much depreciation from 2-5 years...as long as you maintain it well.

as for hybrids, it depends on how you drive and where...hybrids do best in a lot of stop-and-go driving. the battery gets a small charge every time you brake, so they usually get better mileage in city driving than highway. I figured out that with my commute, I'd save about $10 a week in gas with a hybrid (honda civic) vs a regular one. that's $520 a year. the cost was about $2k more for the Hybrid, so break even in about 4 years? doesn't make sense for me dollar-wise.

Keep the car

[pebu]

On the hybrid... No, it's not worth it. My cousins jetta tdi gets easy 40-45 mpg in the city and 50, maybe even 55 on the highway. There's alot of vehicles out there that will do that. Don't be turned off of diesel just because it used to be dirty. They are amazing on fuel mileage.

Also, I had an article concerning the costs of hybrids. Basically it takes more energy to make and drive a hybrid than it does to make and drive a hummer. They do it by energy per mile, which the hybrids expected life-span is 100,000 miles (which I don't know about you, but I'd run through that in about 3 or 4 years) as opposed to the hummers 300,000.

If I can find that article again I'll post it, but I don't have it anymore.

Driving on the highway, don't bother with a hybrid. They are made for city driving, as that's where they get their best mileage. Not to mention they have an expensive initial cost. A small diesel or gas engine will get as good mileage as a hybrid and be much much cheaper.

[Allee]

It's already probably depreciated 30% of it's value. If you'll own it in 2 years, I'd spend the extra money maintaining it well, and just drive it until it starts costing you money.

There's a big difference in comfort driving a bigger engined, relaxed car on the highway as opposed to a smaller engined buzzbox. If you spend a lot of highway time it's worth it for this alone. Once you get a lot of the smaller engines up past 110km/h their fuel economy goes out the window anyway.

Plus you have to look at the lifestyle - I'd guess the HHR suits yours (they're a pretty adaptable car). A Prius probably wouldn't...

[Neil Gendzwill]

You never make back the money you lose in buying a new car on fuel economy.

[modifiede30]

I'm a big fan of owning my cars, so I tend to drive them all into the ground so that I can drive them for a while when I actually own them and don't have to pay anymore monthly payments. At the same time, I'll never buy a new car - my contribution to recycling efforts I guess . This obviously makes ownership easier to reach time-wise, but it also give me more money to spend on my track car and carving :D .

[Sinecure]

Keep it for now. Sell it just before it turns 60K miles.

[C5 Golfer]

Ha, to funny,

and when I fill up it's fifeteen bucks not fourty,

Are you saying it only take 5-6 gallons to fill it up??

it must have a very small gas tank...

[pebu]

No... It takes 7!

I can fill my truck up for 5 bucks every time. I just have to do it alot more often.

Yes, I'm a little bit resentful about hybrids. People think they're the answer to everything. There's so much hype about them, it just irks me a bit. I've also got a bad feeling about driving around with a crapload of lead acid batteries.

Speaking of batteries, the batteries in hybrids are supposed to be replaced every 2 years I believe it is. (depending on the hybrid I'm sure)

Hybrids have their place, but so do semis and so do suvs. Just don't think they're the answer to all of the worlds problems.

[Derf]

My cousins jetta tdi gets easy 40-45 mpg in the city and 50, maybe even 55 on the highway. There's alot of vehicles out there that will do that. Don't be turned off of diesel just because it used to be dirty. They are amazing on fuel mileage.

I agree on the newer Diesel cars. They are very efficient and get an awesome mileage. They are much more refined than they were. You can even get some midrange Mercedes-Benz (their midrange, so still very expensive) with a Blutec engine, and I hear it's among the best. VW also have a very good Diesel technology, but they are known for their reliability issues.

Also, I had an article concerning the costs of hybrids. Basically it takes more energy to make and drive a hybrid than it does to make and drive a hummer. They do it by energy per mile, which the hybrids expected life-span is 100,000 miles (which I don't know about you, but I'd run through that in about 3 or 4 years) as opposed to the hummers 300,000.

If I can find that article again I'll post it, but I don't have it anymore.

Here is the link: http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/

First, they are a Marketing firm, so I am already skeptical about their conclusions. I read part of the article and I read some articles commenting it, so I disagree even more with their conclusions. Here are some things I read about the Prius and Hummer regarding the article:

-They overestimated the Hummer's life and underestimated the Prius.

-A Hummer H2 or H3 will last the same as a typical car (I read 130K Miles)

-A Prius is likely to last longer if well maintained. There are some Prius taxis that have more than 100K Miles and keep on going.

-A Prius owner is more likely to want to keep it's car longer than a Hummer's owner will keep his.

-They talked about the 2005 Prius. In their own study, the cost of the 2006 Prius dropped a lot.

-The Hummer they were referring to is probably an H1 for 2 reasons:

*The Hummer is not in the 2006 list and they stopped producing the H1 that year

*The H1 can last 300K Miles, but the H2 and H3 ae less likely.

-They talk about the COST of manufacturing, not necessarely the energy involved (which is the topic of the article).

Driving on the highway, don't bother with a hybrid. They are made for city driving, as that's where they get their best mileage. Not to mention they have an expensive initial cost. A small diesel or gas engine will get as good mileage as a hybrid and be much much cheaper.

A hybrid will still get a better mileage on the highway for several reasons:

-The electric engine gives some assistance to the gas engine and can make it run more efficiently.

-The Prius is more aerodynamic than most cars, so it has less drag.

-Depending on which hybrid, they usually have an engine that is smaller and optimized for low consumption

One last note on hybrids: there are several types of hybrids:

-Those made to consume less gas

ex: Honda Insight, Honda Civic, Toyota Prius

-Those made to have more power

ex: Honda Accord Hybrid

-Those made to make a gas guzzler a little less of a gas guzzler but still a gas guzzler

ex: All hybrid SUVs (Ford Escape, Lexus RX400h and so on)

To get back to the main topic, you should get rid of your Chevy and get something that consumes less (be it hybrid, Diesel or just plain economy car). The car edition of the Québec equivalent of Consumer Report just got out (Protégez-Vous) and they say that American cars lose their resale value very fast and much more that imports because they are much less reliable and there is a big offer and little demand for used American cars (which I think is caused by the huge rebates on new cars offered because they have trouble selling them because of said reliability).

[Neil Gendzwill]

There's a similar prius-hummer article here, probably using the same base study. It has additional factual errors when it talks about the problem with the smokestack in Sudbury, basically describing the situation 20 years ago as the industry has cleaned itself up a lot since then.

[C5 Golfer]

Looks like one should NOT buy the Ford Excape

Look at this cost of either.. in 27 years my 1980 280 SL and 180K miles has at most cost me $3500 total for everything. I would think a late model should be less cost to own than older one. Maybe not but this is a Ford isn't it?

Item: 2006 Escape XLT V-6 4x2 1st figure 2006 Escape Hybrid 4x2 2nd figure

Oil changes and tire rotations $960 $866

Air filter replacement $135 $155

Fuel filter replacement $315 $63

High-voltage battery A/C filter replacement $0 $581

Brake pads/shoes replacement,

resurfacing rotors/drums* $2,545 $1,539

Tire replacement** $1,347 $1,335

Engine coolant changes $120 $120

PCV valve replacement $38 $0

Spark plug replacement $143 $143

Front wheel bearing adjustment/replacement $411 $0

Accessory belt replacement $105 $105

Automatic transmission fluid changes $172 $0

150,000-mile total $6,291 $4,907

From http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGuides/Story.jsp?section=Hybrid&story=hybShop2006&subject=stories&referer=&year=New

[Derf]

Yes, I'm a little bit resentful about hybrids. People think they're the answer to everything. There's so much hype about them, it just irks me a bit. I've also got a bad feeling about driving around with a crapload of lead acid batteries.

Speaking of batteries, the batteries in hybrids are supposed to be replaced every 2 years I believe it is. (depending on the hybrid I'm sure)

Hybrids have their place, but so do semis and so do suvs. Just don't think they're the answer to all of the worlds problems.

I am also skeptical about hybrids and I don't think they are the answer. The answer would be to have a smaller car (if you need one) and to use it less.

I'm not sure that they still use lead-acid batteries. The Prius has NiMH batteries and the next generation will have LiIon ones. Only electric forklifts still have lead acid batteries I think. The batteries are garanteed up to 100K Miles btw.

Hybrids do have their place. Semis do have their place, but it should be smaller. I don't believe SUVs do though.

[Derf]

There's a big difference in comfort driving a bigger engined, relaxed car on the highway as opposed to a smaller engined buzzbox. If you spend a lot of highway time it's worth it for this alone. Once you get a lot of the smaller engines up past 110km/h their fuel economy goes out the window anyway.

Plus you have to look at the lifestyle - I'd guess the HHR suits yours (they're a pretty adaptable car). A Prius probably wouldn't...

A bigger engined car will be quiter on the highway. I personnaly don't like cars too quiet because I can't hear well enough around me, but it'S a matter of personal preference. The smaller car's fuel economy does go up more than a bigger car's when going 110 km/h (10 km/h above legal speed limit), but I beleive the smaller car still does consume less than the bigger one at that speed (and overall, but that's a given).

BTW, I checked the interior of a Pius and the word I would use to describe it is cavernous. There is lots of space inside. It is after all a medium sized car (comparable to Accord, Camry and so on). And is has the advantage of being a hatchback.

[wavechaser]

IMO the best time to sell a car you bought new is immediately after you make the final payment - IF you plan to get another new car. The old car will never be in better condition or worth more, and it is paid for. If you don't sell it at that point, then keep it and drive it into the ground. Like you, NC, I drive about 24k-28k per year going to all these kayak, snowboard and skateboard events. I need a car that runs because I'm not a mechanic-type. I want a good warranty so I don't have to pay for repairs on top of payments. I consider my payments like rent on a place to live - I NEED it and that is just what it costs to have it. That being said, I've become an expert at buying a new vehicle for the absoulute lowest price possible so I have the lowest payment I can get, lowest interest rate I can get, least depreciation when I drive it off the lot, and quickest time to the day when I owe less than it is worth to sell.

[Gecko]

The big problem with Hybrid cars is that they use gasoline engines instead of diesel. Gas engines produce high torque (used for driving the generator) at high RPM's, Diesels do so at low RPM's making them more fuel efficient. The city of Pittsburgh was party to a diesel electric hybrid experiment for their city buses that proved diesel is a better. the problem with diesel in the USA is that the EPA and the oil industry have everyone convinced that diesel is bad...forgetting the fact that our economy actually runs on diesel (18 wheelers of America) we still have the lowest quality of diesel of any 1st world nation (a cetane rating of 46 for ULSD is a joke compared to europe and asia). TPI's have issues the timeing belt has to be replaced at 60,000 miles and the water pump should be at that times as well but these are know things that have been discovered. It's hard to argue with +500 tanks and an engine that is just broken in at 100,000miles.

[Jon Dahl]

New cars lose 60 percent of book value in the first 4 years. At this stage, drive it. Pay it off as fast as you can, even double payments if possible. Look for a good used car for the significant other, that you can pay cash for. Put the rest in savings, and build yourself a fund for lifes little emergencies. And big emergencies. Quit using credit, it's how your lenders get rich. Or haven't you considered that little fact? And on the hybrid car advice, for long commutes they are not enough efficient to offset the cost.

[C5 Golfer]

New cars lose 60 percent of book value in the first 4 years. At this stage, drive it. Pay it off as fast as you can, even double payments if possible. Look for a good used car for the significant other, that you can pay cash for. Put the rest in savings, and build yourself a fund for lifes little emergencies. And big emergencies. Quit using credit, it's how your lenders get rich. Or haven't you considered that little fact? And on the hybrid car advice, for long commutes they are not enough efficient to offset the cost.

Hey Jon.. not sure I can totally agree here. It is a delicate balance between borrowing and saving. At the one extreme one could save 90% of earnings and live in a tent with wood heat and ride a rusty old bicycle. the other extreme is where you are heavily in debt and own a house with 9000 sq ft and olympic swimming pool and party everyweekend when you are not flying to some ski resort. so we look for balance to enjoy life and have a smile on our face. Now assume for a minute that we drive approx 25K miles a year and most of us probably average 30 mph so that equates to 800 hours spent of your life in a car. Why not make it a car that is a pleasure to drive, puts a smile on your face when you go to work and go home from work, something that get to 100mph before your cofffee gets cold. Remember when buying a car - find something that puts a smile on your face -- why be miserable? We work too hard to be unhappy with our ride. Also it is like riding an old Burton, you still get to the bottom of the hill but we like riding our Coilers Doneks and Priors, not much difference since the goal is getting a ride to the bottom. My $.02

[Neil Gendzwill]

New cars lose 60 percent of book value in the first 4 years.

Maybe American cars do. We bought our little Acura 1.6 EL for around 70% of it's new price coming off a 4 year lease, and thought we got a pretty good deal. Hondas and Toyotas hold value incredibly well.

[wavechaser]

Maybe American cars do. We bought our little Acura 1.6 EL for around 70% of it's new price coming off a 4 year lease, and thought we got a pretty good deal. Hondas and Toyotas hold value incredibly well.

A lot depends how badly you allow your self to get ripped when you buy a new car. Learn HOW to get your best deal - it's incredibly easy now with all the info available on the internet. The last four vehicles I bought were all worth more in book value immediately AFTER I drove off the lot than the price I paid. Can't do that with high demand vehicles of course, but most others you can. And if you can get a Honda, Toyota, or similar on a deal like that you are even better off!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Don't know how it is in your neck of the woods, but around here there just isn't much room to dicker on those cars. If you don't want it, they can sell it to the next guy. And if you do manage to get a good deal, then it depreciates just that much less. You'd have to drive a Civic into the ground to get it to depreciate 60% in 4 years.

[wavechaser]

This is America baby! EVERYTHING is negotiable!

[Jon Dahl]

This is America baby! EVERYTHING is negotiable!

This is the thing almost no one realizes. Everything is negotiable, only more so with cash. Try it sometime. Pull out a roll of cash, thumb the bills and do not say much. A lot of people will wet themselves watching this on the seller end of it. And cars suck as an investment. And so does financing anything, that sucks, period. Except maybe a house. And I still hold the value loss on vehicles, it may vary from brand to brand, but it is a losing proposition. If you can afford to lose some, fine, but most people buy more than they need, and suffer for it. C5, you may get to the hill faster than I will, but I promise you I have just as much fun when I arrive, I just leave a little earlier!

[Jon Dahl]

Remember when buying a car - find something that puts a smile on your face -- why be miserable?

It makes me smile to think I can walk away from any of my vehicles w/o the slightest of qualms, especially when I am headed out boarding. If I want it bad enough, I will come back afterwards and collect it. And I get 40mpg and commute 60 miles a day. I am not a slave to my transportation, it serves me. If you are paying $300-$400 plus per month car payments, you are a slave to your car, and your lender. Just my $.02, learned the hard way. And no one suffers at my home, not even my wifes horse!