Board Characteristics & Specs

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

In getting into snowboarding, it seems to me that some things aren't so well defined. People speak of a board being stable, skittish, great pop, no pop, edgy, skittish, etc. Then you have weight ranges for a board as well as different lengths.

I'm sure those of you with experience can decipher this stuff on the bat, but I find it hard to understand all of the how's and why's. Specifically, I'm interested in how you can estimate or at least guess flex/stiffness & stability/instability from specs, and maybe pop too.

What gives a board more (or less) pop (or is it spring?) Is it the materials it is made from? Or is it a function of flex?

Can you compare the flex just by looking at the recommended weight ranges? For example....a 150 lb rider on a board with a range of 140-200 is going to be in for a stiff ride as opposed to a softer, flexier ride on a board with a range of 100-160? What if one of the boards is a freestyle board with a higher weight range as compared to a freeride board with a lower weight range?

What about length? Does length really impact how stable a board is, or is that a property of the board's flex? I'm guessing you'd go faster on a longer board, if nothing else?

Just trying to make sense of board specs so I can know, hopefully, what to expect.

[Jack M]

here's some reading on the subject:

http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/how_to_buy_snowboard.cfm

[tex1230]

What gives a board more (or less) pop (or is it spring?) Is it the materials it is made from? Or is it a function of flex?

It's the materials and how they are put together

Can you compare the flex just by looking at the recommended weight ranges? For example....a 150 lb rider on a board with a range of 140-200 is going to be in for a stiff ride as opposed to a softer, flexier ride on a board with a range of 100-160? What if one of the boards is a freestyle board with a higher weight range as compared to a freeride board with a lower weight range?.

Flex is difficult and varies by manufacturer and board type. best way to tell is by hand flexing the board...but I would say a board with a weight range of 140-200 will be significantly stiffer than one with a range of 100-160, regardless of freestyle vs freeride.

What about length? Does length really impact how stable a board is, or is that a property of the board's flex? I'm guessing you'd go faster on a longer board, if nothing else?

you can go as fast as you want. a board with a longer effective edge will be more stable at speed. board length can be misleading. always look at effective edge.

EDIT: I stand corrected after looking at Jack's article. I meant Running Length, not effective edge.

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

Wow thanks! You guys rock :)

That was really helpful. The article gives a good look at most of those things I mentioned.

Flex I know, seems a bit, let's say, unmeasured in terms of a number (as opposed to sidecut or length). Then those weight ranges, would at least give me an idea I think, as was suggested.

I'm looking at some new freestyle boards, but the girl's boards are all really small and flexy for someone my size. So I'll probably opt for a guy's freestyle board. Since the weight ranges and lengths are different, I'll have a better idea, after your comments, of what to expect.

I don't do much in the way of rails but like jumps and really want to hit the pipe. So I figure pop for jumps, and stiffness + edge hold for the pipe is my ideal freestyle board.

[Neil Gendzwill]

There's no universal way to measure stiffness. Some manufacturers have relative stiffness numbers across all boards (Burton, Donek). Coiler has a stiffness number that's only good for comparing boards of the same length. Nobody has a way of comparing across manufacturers. Honestly your best bet is to come here and ask, it's surprising how often people will know the board and say "I rode that and it's stiffer than X but softer than Y" or something like that.

[Dave Pushee]

Honestly, the only way I have ever been able to know if a board will work for me is to ride it.

If you are looking at softboot boards, ask friends if you can try theirs out for a few runs. Or, stop by a board shop and rent a demo board for the day. That will give you some basis for comparison.

If you are looking at boards designed for hardbooters, your best bet is to plan to attend one of the bomber expression sessions where demo boards will be available.

[Buell]

Neil has touched on my method. If you ride as many boards as possible in the discipline you are interested in (alpine for me), you are able to create a method of communication with other riders who have also ridden those boards. You can then understand where they are coming from when and how it might affect you when they talk about a board you have not ridden.

Unfortunately, aside from the specs given for all boards, you will often need to talk to others to figure out the other stuff like flex or pop. The snowboard world, especially non-alpine, is so full of short marketing blurbs that really tell you nothing about the board. In the alpine world, a lot of the wonderful small manufacturers can tell you very clearly how their boards will compare to someone else's boards.

If you are even slightly aggressive, there is a strong chance you will give up quickly on women's FS / FR type boards. Rebecca started snowboarding last year and quickly went through two new women's Freeride boards before realizing they are not made for women who really want to ride. Unless, perhaps, you are 110 pounds.

[Istvan]

Jack, this is a great tech article including all the important factors.

Just one question, though: there are many shapes that I have difficulty classifying into the 3 categories you gave, for example the new wide body concept, or the very narrow boards of Virus, or the aggressive carving shapes like Virus Gladiator which I would never call a forgiving freecarve board.

How would you classify these?

Thanks,

István

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

Spot-on, just spot-on. Really good points being made.

Much as I hate to say it, I've ridden a grand total of 2 boards. My very first day of snowboarding, I rented a board and was obviously much more worried about not hurting myself and staying upright than anything else. Other than that, I've only been on my Arbor Push 156.

Thing about the Push is, it is rated up to 170 pounds (which is what I weigh not counting boots, etc), and has a SCR of 7.6. Without having tried another board I can't say for sure, but I suspect this board is now soft and not so stable for me as compared to other boards that would be longer, stiffer, and with a bigger SCR? On this board I find bumps and cut-up snow, really unsettling and they quickly kill my confidence.

I'm looking at an Arbor Mystic (a freestyle deck), but am thinking it may actually be a better carving/mountain board than mine, ironically enough. The 158cm Mystic, has a SCR of 8.5/7.9/8.5, weight range of 120-190 as compared to my present board. If nothing else it would be stiffer. Not that I would buy it to be a hard carving board.

As far as girl's boards, that was so true! You are lucky to find anything rated up to 150 pounds, much less more than that. I'm not heavy or anything, but I'm also not your average 5'4" girl! Not to mention, most of the boards are freestyle oriented, which is cool, but even those are too small for me.

I'm going to call around town and see if I can at least rent another board. If nothing else,, I'd have something to compare it with.

[Jack M]

Jack, this is a great tech article including all the important factors.

Just one question, though: there are many shapes that I have difficulty classifying into the 3 categories you gave, for example the new wide body concept, or the very narrow boards of Virus, or the aggressive carving shapes like Virus Gladiator which I would never call a forgiving freecarve board.

How would you classify these?

Thanks Istvan. I guess there are many boards that don't fall into the 3 categories, so I just call them "alpine boards" or "carving boards". That would be the "super-class" of the 3 named sub-classes.

However I believe Race boards, Freecarve boards and All-Mountain Carving boards are easily distinguished from each other, and that's what a new carver needs to know. I would say the boards that don't fit into these categories are usually purchased by people who know what they're looking for.

I guess we could also use "Freecarve" as the catch-all term for anything that doesn't have a round tail but wouldn't be good for racing. Back when Burton ruled the Alpine scene, Freecarve was kind of a derogatory word for "watered-down race board". These days, many Freecarve boards perform every bit as well as race boards, but just for different tasks.

[abakker]

for some cool all mountain boards that can carve well and hold up in varied conditons, see if you can rent/demo a Never summer or Nidecker. they are well made boards and seem to be logically designed for a range of uses.

[Istvan]

Thanks Jack, I agree.

I wonder what major categories we will use say in 5-10 years, what else can come in terms of shapes, technology, etc. We'll see.

Kindest

[pebu]

Another great resource that goes quite in depth is the carvers almanac at www.alpinecarving.com.

[jnshapiro]

One of my pet peeves is companies that market sporting equipment as "women's boards." It does a disservice to everyone, and is often an excuse to get away with making substandard equipment. There are a few exceptions, but they are far between.

Get a board that fits the way you want to ride and your own individual size. Forget about labels on equipment.

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

pebu - great link! I found some good write-ups on that site. It seems more geared towards, um, what is it called, EC? That lay-on-the-snow-as-you-carve-style?

jnshapiro - i have to think you are right about that. A lot of women's gear seems to be just detuned men's stuff with different colors. Women's bikes are probably the one item I've seen that is thoughtfully made since we have different body types (torso & leg length's) - although they tend to be made for smaller girls.

All - looks like I'm going to be getting a real lesson on board characteristics this coming weekend. I've got a 162 Arbor Mystic, a 166 Arbor Crossbow, plus my 156 Push to try out. Wish I had a freecarve or boardercross to try, but I bet these 3 will be rather educational. I'll go through the park, do some jumps, ollies, butters, presses, then some norm carves, a little cross-under & through, try some steeps, and see how they work.

No doubt the adjustment tool is going to get a lot of use as I move my bindings back and forth. Can't wait to try them all out, how exciting! :)

[BShaw]

You really need to determine how you ride, or would like to ride, snow conditions you would see at your local hills, and how much time you spend in the park/pipe compared to groomed runs. As far as getting a board that will perform for your size, you may want to look at http://www.donek.com He should be able to get you into a board that would work great for you.

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

You really need to determine how you ride, or would like to ride, snow conditions you would see at your local hills, and how much time you spend in the park/pipe compared to groomed runs. As far as getting a board that will perform for your size, you may want to look at http://www.donek.com He should be able to get you into a board that would work great for you.

Hey, I understand what you are saying and all, I really do and can see the reasons behind that. Knowing what you like, is only going to help in picking the best board(s) for those conditions.

My feeling though, is that just 3 months into my snowboarding career, riding as many different boards as I can is only going to help. If nothing else, I'm going to know what soft or stiff, live or damp, etc - is within the Arbor line.

Plus, I really don't want to limit myself to any particular style of riding. So far I've done general freeriding, some park, jumps, tried the rails, carving too, and enjoyed all of them.

Next year, once my switch riding gets better, I'd like to get into the pipe too. I am not especially wanting to excel at anything, rather I hope to be well rounded and be just as good at laying down carves as hitting backside airs as I am doing 360's in the pipe.

I may well get a Donek board next year. I like how they at least give you a number to measure flex within their lines. The boardercross one, at least that's what I think they are, the Donek Incline, looks like something I could really enjoy.

Peace :)

[jnshapiro]

You don't have to be limited. If you really like carving (for example), get a carving setup. If it's powder, go that way. You can, and perhaps should, have multiple boards for different types of riding and conditions. There's no need to think that you'll be limiting yourself when you buy a board.

[BShaw]

I think the incline would work out great. Not really a board for the pipe though. You can also have the stiffness adjusted slightly to match your weight and riding style, this is not really an off the shelf type of board.

[Guest Bamboo_Girl]

A little report here after the fact but educational, at least for me.

So this past weekend I rode all three boards. Saturday I didn't choose all that well, taking the freestyle deck on a day with 14" of fresh powder, but I managed OK. The real deep stuf

First off, the Mystic 162, which is a freestyle deck. For regular freeriding, it was fine, decent edge, turns pretty easily, not too fidgety at speed. Plus I rode it on saturday in 14" of fresh powder and it was alright, except in the really deep stuff - but then that's true of many boards. Not one I'd take for flying down the hill or fast carving, etc. In the park though it really shined. Good pop, plus the much wider base and more ideal flex resulted in me landing probably 80-90% of my jumps with no trouble.

The other board I had on hand was the Crossbow 166. What a contrast! This one didn't turn nearly as fast or easily as the others. Then again, it picked up way more speed, absorbed bumps w/o getting unsettled or nervous, and just gave me a real comfortable feeling while bombing some runs. The edge bite was really impressive too, just way more aggressive than the others. So much edge bite that I bailed pretty hard at high speed towards the end of one run because I screwed up my cross-through and was caught sitting back while going from heel to toe edge. I imagine that more carving-specific and/or boardercross snowboards (Donek, etc) are even stiffer, better at speed, hard eges, good carving, etc though probably not so great at powder.

My original board, the Push 156 (a women's board), was much closer to the Mystic in its freeride performance. Good pop, nice flex, but gets unsettled at speed and/or over bumps. Compared to the Crossbow it feels soft , sort of like one of those big cadillacs! Having a more narrow base, it doesn't feel as secure for me while landing jumps as the Mystic did.

This was certainly an exercise in understanding how flex, stiffness, board length, sidecut, and edge all factor into various types of riding. Another thing I've learned from this is obviously, different boards are best suited to particular tasks. Skilled riders, like many of you here, can probably do well at most aspects of snowboarding (park, pipe, freeride, powder, carving) with almost any board.

Me? I'm not nearly at that skill level so I appreciate having a more park focused board for the park, etc. Unfortunately I can't justify having 3 boards, maybe 2 though!

I'm inclined to keep the freestyle deck, the Mystic, since I tend to enjoy riding in the park most, jumping actually.

[BShaw]

Finding a board that can both carve and ride in a pipe will be very difficult at best. I have very little to "no" interest to ride in a park or pipe so I cannot help you there.

And, although you can carve on a very stiff soft setup, it is not quite as nice as carving on equipment made to this. It is much nicer carving in hard boots than soft, their is much more support.

All that being said, a lot of boards cross over from on type of terrain to another. ie. carve and freeride. or park and freeride. I don't think you will find a board for carve and park...

You really need to determine where you would like to spend your time, or bring a quiver of boards to the mountain.

[pebu]

Do people do parks and pipes in hardboots? The thing I find annoying is having to go in and change boots every time I want to switch boards..

[BlueB]

Finding a board that can both carve and ride in a pipe will be very difficult at best.

So how dou you think the good pipe riders cary the required speed and line through the pipe? They carve all the way to the next trick.

EVERY board can carve, just the speed and inclination need to be less on softer board with more side cut.

[BShaw]

I disagree, carving implies inclination. Otherwise skidding down the hill is carving with just very little inclination... Strait lining a hill is carving with strait radius turns...

As far as I can tell, they are near strait lining it, with very little inclination, in the pipe. I would also have to say the same thing for Boardercross, at least all of the ones I have taped recently.

If you are not leaving lines (preferably trenches), your not carving.

Again this is just my opinion.

[lonerider]

I disagree, carving implies inclination. Otherwise skidding down the hill is carving with just very little inclination... Strait lining a hill is carving with strait radius turns...

As far as I can tell, they are near strait lining it, with very little inclination, in the pipe. I would also have to say the same thing for Boardercross, at least all of the ones I have taped recently.

If you are not leaving lines (preferably trenches), your not carving.

The last comment is the only thing in your post that is correct. Carving is leaves a thin line in the snow.

It is clear you don't ride halfpipe - all good halfpipe riders carve across the middle of the pipe to get the most speed for the next wall. If you were to skid, you would lose speed, if you were to flatboard you would drift downward in the pipe. This carving is more subtle and not quite as inclinated... but it is carving none the less. If you ever rode a halfpipe you would see that most of the riders carve the same line and you need to ride "with the grain."

For boardercross, in addition to missing Shaun White's Olympic halfpipe ride, I guess you missed the boardercross finals, where a hardbooter nearly carved himself to a gold medal (got silver). Again, some SBX events are less carve oriented than others, but you still need to carve a little bit. I guess you are expecting people to do extremecarving in races