Donek or F2 Speedster?

[Guest apocalypsem3]

I've heard many good things about these boards and I was wondering which board is generally better in stability, carving abilities, liveliness...etc? I read in the forum that Donek is better, but what are your opinions?

[ncermak]

lets see... A board built for you and the way you ride, or a stock board? I've necver ridden either but I know the answer here...

Donek

[Guest apocalypsem3]

i meant... stock Donek compared to F2 speedster. Sorry.

[C5 Golfer]

Originally posted by apocalypsem3

i meant... stock Donek compared to F2 speedster. Sorry.

I have both. I had a FCII - red top sheet 179 if I remember right. I felt the overall board was excellent and well made but I could not ride it all day. I took a little to much effort and it beat my knees up in a 1/2 day. It was just too stiff and I weigh 215 lbs. I personally like a top sheet that is glossy and smooth like you see on production boards. The Donek is not a very pleasing top sheet to me but it is my preference and others could care less - you have to make the call on that one.

Re: the F2 Speedster. It is a also an excellent and well made board. Top notch craftsmanship for a production board. I have a 177 RS metalic yellow top sheet. I can ride this guy all day and several days in a row just like I can my Volkl 178. The F2 is smooth riding and you can just relax and enjoy the ride. Top sheet is glassy smooth and would look good as wall art in the summer too!

My pick is the F2. Although I would like to try a Donek again if I can find one that would be not so friggen stiff. My old man legs can't handle the stiff ride.:)

[brodster_57]

Well to make a long story short...Donek of course. I will not down F2 though. A long time carver and racer told me that F2 production boards are the best (as well as Nidecker.) And that F2 production boards are about as close as you will come to having a board tailored to your needs like Donek (He had a Coiler though which he raved about.) I have an F2 Speeder RS 177 and it has a few hard seasons on it, but beside little surface scratches that board is still ripping like new. It still hold a massive amount of camber which is much more than I can say for some board manufacturer's (my last years noodled out K2 Nemesis that now sports reverse camber.) F2 is now my favorite mass-production company, although they are pricey. But there is no doubt in my mind that Donek makes some of the (if not the) best boards in the world. I realize that is a bold statement, but I was impressed 10 times over when I saw how beautiful my board looked when it came out the package. Sleek and clean, that thing looked like a tool that was meant for serious carving and racing business. Although some may think the Donek graphics leave a little something to be desired , I love the simple clean serious look of their boards over any mass production company board which has $300 graphics. Let's face it, the expensive overly complex graphics may get you ooh's and aw's in the parking lot, (may even help get you laid in the bar)but they don't do a thing on the mountain. But this is where Doneks truly shine. Their carving performance is incredible, and the way it holds edge on the ice is (as stated by many others) impeccable. I think the previous poster should give Donek a second chance and just simply ask for a softer board. I think we all have made the error of choosing a board that is too stiff or too soft...but that doesn't change the quality of the company.

[philw]

It's been too long since I rode an F2 fofr me to comment on that, but this year I got a Donek FC11 163 as a replacement for a Nitro Scorpion slalom board.

The Donek topsheets are soft, but I don't care about that. The quality control and craftmanship is excellent - I've never had a mass-produced board with a base/ edge set-up this good out of the box.

Performance wise the thing has the same running length & radius as my old Nitro, but it's got less camber and is stiffer. So it's more of a cruisy carver than a mogul-bashing wild child.

When I first rode it I couldn't believe how good the edge hold is. The harder you push the harder it grips. Initially you have to watch this, as combined with the flex pattern it means you need to put a tiny amount of effort into changing edges. That's soon forgotten.

Overall I think that the camber and stiffness balance is about the same as the Scorpion - it works fine for my weight (62kgs) and riding style (fast, active).

I'm sure either will be fine.. ride 'em first if you can.

[JoelP]

F2: I presently have three, 160 I rarely ride, 172 RS and a 186 RS. I've only ridden the Donek Freecarve and not any of their custom boards. I like the F2 over the Freecarve but the F2 should be more compared to their custom and race models.

So for F2 the thing there is to ride the board..it's important. why?? because production boards change to demand from riders and courses from that year. My 172 RS is a blast but I know they changed the flex the following year to be softer, mine's a black and green top sheet and for reference Ross R won the first Olympics on the same model BUT he changed to this model which was the year befores board because the one that F2 produced that year was softer and didn't work well on that course. Then my 186 (Grey/Blk/Yellow) kicks solid a#$ but the newer 183 although nearly the same dim's is softer again. So F2's change from year to year but I still love the line and ride them religously.

Now after 10 years of riding I am looking for a real custom board because I also have Rossi WC's and I want something between the two in character and the research to get what I want is intensive. The cost of a custom board means being sure you get what you want.

But if I was to get another board and buy it used...I think you can not be dissapointed with either a F2 or Donek but again it depends on the model to compare more than the manufacturer.

Hope that helps.

Joel

[Guest apocalypsem3]

So I guess I should be more specific in which model I want to compare. I was thinking about Donek Race or F2 RS models. Any opinions now?

[pokkis]

Both are great boards, either you choose you will be happy .:D

For me main difference is that you can get F2 right from shop and go for riding, for Donek you must wait for few weeks OR F2 you get flex/stiffness as they have built it but Donek you get built as you agree with Sean.

[Maciek]

Because of top sheet I would choose... Burton... or F2:p

Now, Donek has boring top sheet and I can never get dizzy with it. Plus I was so dumb to order only black, solid top sheet from Sean several years ago. It is too contrasty on snow and out of fashion;)

However if you plan on some performance I would try Donek first (any top sheet) and then F2 (Speedster of course) with the only top sheet available. But before looking at F2 I would try Coiler.

[Guest copek]

how would you guys rate the F2 Speedster RS as a first-time carving board?

i'm curious to try out a hardboot set-up and have seen one going cheap.

thanks

C

[Guest copek]

having read up on the Speedster RC, sounds like its not the most appropriate first-time carving board. so for all you experts out there here's the bargain ...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2789078352&category=59756&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1

[Jack M]

<b>Copek</b>: indeed the RS is not the first-timer's carving board. Unless you are already carving well on your existing gear and are exceeding its limits. Then you'd probably do well on the RS.

<b>apocolypsem3</b>: seriously, you can't go wrong with either.

<b>C5 Golfer</b>: I don't think I'd blame the stiffness of the Donek. At your heft, I don't think that should have been the problem. In my opinion, the sidecut radius on the 179FC is way too short. 11.2m?? That's what's on the 171FC, and I even think it's a little too short for <i>that</i> board. No wonder it was a workout for you - the thing always wants to turn! If I was designing boards, I'd put a 12m radius on a 171, and a 14m on a 179.

-Jack

[pokkis]

Jack, thatis not so simple with radius :)

I'm totally happy owner of Donek FC CS 185 with 11 m radius, it is great board for all smalish slopes or even bigger ones as long you dont go over Mach 1 :D But, i agree that it is not toy for unexperienced rider for big steep slopes.

[Mike T]

Jack, I don't have anywhere near as much experience as you do and you've probably been on several times the number of boards that I have...

... but I don't see why those FC boards need a longer sidecut.

Doesn't an little extra edge length translate to a little extra stability? In my book that's not a bad thing. As for being a "workout", I assume you're saying C5 would get less tired on a board of equal length, longer radius. No argument there. But flip it around - what's long with taking a board of a given radius and adding a little edge length? It might make it a little more hooky, maybe bad if you're racing (not that I've ever raced, just guessing here), but maybe fine for freecarving?

My recent board purchase was a Coiler PR 184, 13.2 sidecut, 166 effective edge. Jack, you'd probably want either a 15 m sidecut or 175 length depending on which dimension you decided to change. But I *love* it - moderately turny and incredibly stable at the same time, I don't get tired at all on it, and it's very confidence-building.

[jason_watkins]

On the subject of effective edge: how much is "enough", and what is it a function of besides weight?

I'm a pretty lightweight guy, so I've been wondering if that means that I should be looking at boards with proportionately less effective edge. Is there just a minimum edge you need for a given radius, such that a short board with a large radius would be out of balance? If I have a chosen radius, is there a good rule for deriving how much edge I should get on a custom board?

I'm sure there's a lot of factors, but at the same time, I bet if everyone compared numbers we'd find a clear trend.

[Jack M]

Originally posted by Mike T

... but I don't see why those FC boards need a longer sidecut.

They don't. They only do if I'm going to be buying one!

But flip it around - what's wrong with taking a board of a given radius and adding a little edge length? It might make it a little more hooky, maybe bad if you're racing (not that I've ever raced, just guessing here), but maybe fine for freecarving?

There's nothing "wrong" with it, just that it's unnecessary in my opinion. You can't carve an 11.2m sidecut super fast anyway, so why haul around all the extra lumber? A 171 will be perfectly stable at the speeds you'd use 11.2 meters for. If you want to go faster, get a longer board with a longer sidecut.

My point was that perhaps C5 Golfer thought that he was getting a big comfy Cadillac when he was buying a 179, when in fact he got a corkscrew.

My recent board purchase was a Coiler PR 184, 13.2 sidecut, 166 effective edge. Jack, you'd probably want either a 15 m sidecut or 175 length depending on which dimension you decided to change. But I *love* it - moderately turny and incredibly stable at the same time, I don't get tired at all on it, and it's very confidence-building.

That's great. Like I said, it's all just my opinion, my personal preference. Believe it or not, I was petrified that I was going to rail straight into the woods after I ordered a Donek 186 which has a 15m radius. The longest radius I had ever been on was 13.3m. When I finally rode the thing, I was blown away by how smooth and chatter-free it was, and that it was actually pretty versitile. No more jack-hammering, no more oscillating - ever. It was basically the answer to my prayers. At that moment I realized that I had been trying to carve beyond the speed envelope of the radii on my previous boards. (I went from an 11.5 to the 15.)

Then I was equally apprehensive when I stepped on Todd B's 18.5m 205. Guess what I'm saving up for now?

-Jack

[Jack M]

Originally posted by jason_watkins On the subject of effective edge: how much is "enough", and what is it a function of besides weight?

This probably needs to be determined empirically. You're asking how much centripetal force can one centimeter of snow provide?

Think about doing a "trust fall" - you know, the feelgood team building exercise where you fall backwards into the arms of like 10 people. The more people you have, the easier it is for each person to catch you. Or, the more people you have catching you, the easier it is for you to trust that they won't drop you.

Edge length is similar. Each centimeter of snow that you carve against is like one person catching you in a trust fall. The more cm's you have, the more edge hold you have. It is true that shorter boards penetrate deeper into the snow, but length trumps depth. That's why you don't see 157's on GS podiums.

It is a function of your weight AND your speed AND your actual turn radius. All three of those things determine how much force the snow has to provide to hold the carve. When you spread that force out along a longer edge length, it's easier for the snow to hold you.

Clear as mud?

-Jack

[C5 Golfer]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud

<b>Copek</b>:<b>C5 Golfer</b>: I don't think I'd blame the stiffness of the Donek. At your heft, I don't think that should have been the problem. In my opinion, the sidecut radius on the 179FC is way too short. 11.2m?? That's what's on the 171FC, and I even think it's a little too short for <i>that</i> board. No wonder it was a workout for you - the thing always wants to turn! If I was designing boards, I'd put a 12m radius on a 171, and a 14m on a 179.

-Jack

First it was not a work out for me -- it was a friggen body beating.

I can see what you are saying and maybe your corkscrew analogy is some of the problem with my past FC179 but also I can tell you when I got it I put the tail on the floor and nose in my left hand and push in the center as hard as I could and I said to myself " Holy Crap!" just like in Everybody Loves Raymond. I have never felt or seen a stiffer board in my life. We all have our own personal preferences and maybe I tend to lean - no pun intended- towards a more flexible board maybe than others. BTW- I found it humorous that the guy I sold it to rode it one day and sold it for the same reason.

I can also say this FC179 was even tough to ride on the access runs to the main runs.. ever little bump felt like a sudden jar to my old legs and knees. My best analogy back to you would be it was like riding a very stiff suspension race car on a logging road with severe washboards and chuck holes. On these same access area runs or main runs my Volkl 173 or 178 or F2 Speedster 177 or Prior 185 WCR all are very smooth and I could ride em 4 days in a row and not hurt my knees, half a day on the Donek was painful enough to bring the day quick to an end and pop the Advil. also I'll separate this one out -- My new Coiler AM 177 with a 11.5 side cut rides wonderful and I can ride it all day. I think that board is the closest in my quiver to the FC 179 for comparison. I think anyone over 300lbs could ride the Donek FC179.

thanks for the info Jack and have a good year..:)

[ar(angel]

Like the ones that have been mentioned in this thread.......I'm curious,

Paul

[lonerider]

Originally posted by ar(angel

Like the ones that have been mentioned in this thread.......I'm curious,

Paul

$550 for most of the mentioned models (Axis, Freecarve, Race) you can go look yourself at www.donek.com

[Guest apocalypsem3]

Between Donek Race and F2 Speedster, which one has more camber? Also, which one is generally stiffer board? Thanks again.

[philfell]

Here's my take. If you can find a f2 in a year 2000 and older that's in good condition grab it without a second thought. If the f2 is 2001 or newer go with a new Donek.

The older F2's are the best boards I've ever ridden, but the newer ones have gone down hill (no pun intended), on the other hand Doneks are getting better every year.

[Jack M]

Originally posted by C5 Golfer

First it was not a work out for me -- it was a friggen body beating.

I can see what you are saying and maybe your corkscrew analogy is some of the problem with my past FC179 but also I can tell you when I got it I put the tail on the floor and nose in my left hand and push in the center as hard as I could and I said to myself " Holy Crap!" just like in Everybody Loves Raymond. I have never felt or seen a stiffer board in my life. We all have our own personal preferences and maybe I tend to lean - no pun intended- towards a more flexible board maybe than others. BTW- I found it humorous that the guy I sold it to rode it one day and sold it for the same reason.

Gotcha. Sounds like maybe a factory "oops"?

Cheers,

-Jack

[Helmut Karvlow]

I agree with phillfell, I have 4 speedsters from 167 to 196, all before 2000, unloaded the two newer ones. they just were not as damp. BTW LOVE the 196!!!!! have not been on a Donek yet, plan on trying them at the ECES. just my 2 cents.