JJFluff

Hey Bordy, I really don't mind the criticism that you bring into the conversation. One thing is, its hard to question the effectiveness of the gear I'm riding if you have never seen me ride it. Now granted, the techniques I ride with may be "older" techniques. But I have mastered them. When I hit bumps, I absorb them. Maybe its being atlhetic that allows me to ride such an inferior style so well, you know. When I started this thread, I wasn't trying to tell people to ride the way I do. I have seen that most are riding with angulations, knees apart, and shoulders parrallel. Apparently these techniques came from some studies that have been done? So I'm sure they are very valid, or everybody wouldn't be riding with this style. It mirrors what is done in the race course, at the highest level. I'm not suggesting or impling its wrong. I would get laughed off this board so fast if I were to question any of that. I was just curious what was behind the painful looking body positioning that everyone loves to ride. I am definately going to put more time this upcoming week into working on these techniques on the snow. Side note- in a blizzard warning as I type here in Milwaukee. When I am riding. I don't push my knees together so I look pretty. My method behind it, is to place and push pressure forward into the turn. I guess it doesn't pay to try to explain, because here, it's just wrong. But, It will be great to see everyone in Februrary, and get to ride and work on these things together. I will bring my crap gear, and show you that it isn't that crappy after all. ----The tone of this message is not a mean, dispirited one. Just so nobody thinks I'm trying to be an arrogant a-hole.

I ride everything on the mountain with the same stance, actually. -Trees, steeps,or anywhere else on the mountain.

Sorry for passing on bad advise bordy. Are you going to be at the SES this year? I can prove to you that every last once of power is being squeezed out of my board. Then I'll let you pick out the next board and bindings I use. And, I'll do the same. The board doesn't matter much with me. I can use them all. If I bought a donek or prior this year, I wouldn't be able to afford to go out to aspen.

It rained all day here. But I'm an opmtimist, so I guess the wet ground will freeze faster now that the cold air is finally here, and help the manmade stuff stick. So thank God for the rain. And now, let it snow. And keep those knees together.

I wish we had some der around here Rob. They are going to start to make some artifical der tonight though. You know, I really don't try to hold my knees together. Both knees are are pushing forward and downward towards the nose of the board. When I am entering a turn I am pressuring forward, through the turn. I am pushing the momentum of my entire body, where I want the board to go. You know, it's hard to explain but I forget the boards even there. I believe by keeping the body moving with the board, not the fall line, it takes alot of the forces away from the board, so because of that, I don't need as much edge pressure as somebody who is keeping parrallel shoulders, and focusing to keep the body on top or closer to the board. Anyways, enjoy the der up der in Canada.

Crave to Carve, thanks for props man. I'm just trying to stir the pot a bit. We haven't gotten out on snow yet here because of warm temps, and I'm just trying to pass the time, and get a good thread going. So when you say pivoting, are you talking more about twisting the body, vs the board? Right? I definately realize there are different styles out there. And like anything we do, different techniques work better than others as well. I have tried it all over the past 10+ years too. So whatever works. I just wanted to see the reaction I would get. Trust me, I've noticed that I am one of very few, who rides the style that I do. Especially out west. Anyways, till Februrary.

Yeah, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. I just wanted to get a good discussion going out there. But I do have to say, I don't pivot.

There certainly isn't any pivoting taking place when I ride. Did you misword this statement?

Actually, knees together doesn't flex the board. Camber and side cut create the shape of the flex. By allowing yours knees to move together, you don't fight the natural flex of the board. When you try to hold your knees apart,you do.

Ok, I realize an article has been written, and therefore it is. But does anyone else out there ride with the knees together. The main reason I question it myself, is because I do everything exactly the opposite of what the article called "Separate Zee Knees: A Whole New Carving Stance" says to do. Note the pics. My knees couldn't be any closer together, I rotate the upper body and lower body into each turn, almost simutaneously, and really try to move all momentum through the turn following the radius I am traveling. The article states you should seperate the knees, and to keep your shoulders parralle to the slope. I''ve noticed that that is the preferred riding style of most on these forums. It seems to me that it moves pressure away from the edge, versus onto the edge like most claim. I say, keep those knees together, and drive through the turn. Granted, I know I am going to be out numbered on this one. But I do know, when I ride I feel extremely comfortable and balanced on top of my snowboard. And I really think I have something going here. I'm not angulated, but I'm not stretching out completely inclinated either. I just maintain a well balanced, athletic stance. When done well, the board will do anything you want it to. Its not EC, but just a powerful, strong stance. Every part of the body working together. When maintaining parallel shoulders, your hips go in on direction, and the upper body in the other. Thats what I would consider a counter rotation. And unless your running a GS course, counter-productive. annnddd discuss. P.S. The article I am referring to is the following. http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/seperate_zee_knees.cfm

Not sure what type of bolts are used on the base plate, because I don't use those bindings. But If they are not flush with the plate, and the head is raised above. You can take a grinder with a four inch thin metal cutting wheel, and make a new single groove across the top of the screw. At which point a large flat head screwdriver may have enough bite to turn the screw. the only other way I could think of is to take a drill, and drill out the screw, but you would have to be very careful not to damage the insert.

the two types of boards have little to do with each other. When I went out to get a freestyle board, I didn't think about my alpine/hardboot setup. The only thing I was looking for in my freestyle board was some stiffness to help with the carving aspect. But I didn't find myself thinking about length, sidecut, and overall running legnth. The way I look at it. My freestyle board is my jeep. And the alpine board is the sports car you keep covered up in the garage until its time to drive it. But I do understand the "need" to crunch numbers and technical this and that. After awhile, do you find yourself worried more about what you should be riding versus what you are riding? Sorry, I just can't figure out the constant reasoning that one needs to be a certain size to ride a certain length/stiffness. I don't buy it. Unless you are really large, than maybe a 160 or smaller may be pushing it. But just give a board a chance, and learn to rip it. Moral of the story. - You can ride anything you want. Stop looking at the numbers.

See you there Dan, I just booked a bed as well. Couldn't miss two years in a row. I won't be in town until Wednesday though. Better than nothing. See you there. Jon

I'm with you Nils.

What about the effect of the center of gravity. When I am riding through a turn, I will reach out to help to overcome the forces trying to throw me out of a turn. When used to your own advantage, height can be used to move your center of gravity further away from the boards edge to help hold an edge. This has a lot to do will the difference between inclination and angulation. The fact is you could be 6'4'' and still ride a 6.4. You change your approach to that particular board. Don't read into everything you hear on this forum. THE RIDER IS THE BIGGEST FACTOR. Many question what is the perfect setup. There isn't a perfect setup. Some might feel more comfortable, or easier to ride, but in the end, time and mileage will help better yourself.

I'm with boostertwo. Both conditions have there place. Granted the hardpack is the preference out here in the midwest. But when I head out west, Im in the trees and bowls just as much as having the alpine board strapped on. By the way Boostertwo, I am going to be out in Beaver Creek, and Vail over New Years this year. Be great to catch up with you once and take a couple of runs. I've boughten two of your FP's off of ebay. My wife and I are going to be out the 26th through the 2nd. Let me know if you'll be in the area, I can give you a few pointers.

Right on. These guys are by far the most dangerous. Both to themselves and others. Fifteen years ago I was taken down by a out of control skier. She was about 12 years old. I was 15 or sixteen. I caught my front edge so hard it snaps my face into the surface and snapped by jaw between my two front teeth,and in the process poked a hole through my upper lip. I lost consciousness, and can't remember the incident. But I did end up with two black eyes, and a concussion. Needless to say, I am very paranoid about riding in front of or around anybody. I always like to follow traffic, and and my little tiny home hill, I'll usually wait out a crowd, and go when traffic is low.

My wife and I will be in summit over New Years this year. We are staying in Beaver Creek. (Wedding Present), but plan to ride one day at BC, one or two at vail, than the last day we were thinking about buying a ticket at Copper. I haven't been to Copper yet. I've heard good things. I love the hard boots, but don't mind riding the soft boots either. Love hitting the whole mountain. It would be great to meet up and ride on day. Ses in Februray is in the works as well.

thanks for the props.

In Wisconsin, when snow sticks to the roads, its considered a der day. At that time, the hills around here decide not to groom to give everyone a chance to ride the ankle deep der. Problem is, its usually a heavy, wet, der. To the der enthusiast, you'd rather they just groom it. When the der gets really deep (up to your lower shin), on a hill of about 200 vert., its hard to even move. So I just stay home and wait until they groom the der. Fluff

I guess I can overlook it. But unfortunately, I wouldn't consider much around here a "gem". The reason I stick to my little hill, (pictured above) is they put a lot of money and work into there snowmaking cababilities. With a good stretch of cold air, they make the best snow. I'm not sure how they do it, but on a good day, it rivals the real stuff. After a nice grooming, you'd think you were outwest. Unfortunately after 10-20 turns its time to go to the top again. Plus there isn't much variation.

I looked at the website Bill, when I searched for a room, It came back with no matches. I think I may have missed the boat. Not sure if there is a bed open. But as long as I am in Aspen.

Yeah, pow sounds better, I was just trying to be a smartass. der.

I am still planning on coming out for part of the week at least. At this time I have yet to find a place to stay. If anyone would like an extra roommate, maybe just for part of the week, probably tues. or wed. night through friday night. I would be interested and greatful as well. I wouldn't mind looking into the entire week either, if a great deal presents itself. Either way I will be driving from wisconsin. Soooo, if anyone wants to work something out, I could work it out so I hit the airport, maybe pick up someone willing to work out a deal for a place to stay, in return for shuttle to and from the airport. Of course a shuttle ride isn't worth the total stay, but maybe a price break? Just an idea I wanted to throw out. If anyone is interested, I am flexible with dates for sure. Winters are slow for me at work.... it's just a matter of having the funds. Love to work out a deal though.

Don't forget about an asymetrical board for those days when you aren't feeling very symetrical. So I guess seven is the lucky number.