KB303
-
Posts
41 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Blogs
Gallery
Downloads
Store
Events
Profiles
Forums
Posts posted by KB303
-
-
That’s super interesting. Thanks,@SunSurfer. And that helps explain why I feel very comfortable even up to 67.5* / 65* on my Donek with an 18 cm waist, versus I felt like I had to learn to ride all over again when I tried 48* / 45* on the VIRUS with a 20 cm waist. More recently I was at 58* / 55* on the VIRUS, and that was a more intuitive feel.
Other than being more aware of using the sides of the feet and boots for inclining and balancing (and having the appropriate binding angles), are there any other major technique tips that you would advise for this style?
-
Hi @SunSurfer, I skied for many years before I started snowboarding. Just didn’t discover Harb’s system until 2007. Also I started snowboarding because I was intrigued by a snowboarder’s ability to carve on the western Pennsylvania boilerplate that I couldn’t hold an edge on with my straight skis. I learned about the importance of sidecut, and that was before shaped skis really took off. So I got the stiffest freestyle setup I could find and was a unidirectional rider who just wanted to carve fast. Then I learned about alpine gear and figured that would appeal to me more than the freestyle setup that still felt too soft to me compared to my ski gear.
So I definitely consider myself a skier who has a different way to get down the mountain rather than a snowboarder who moved to carving gear.
Also Harb’s team didn’t adjust my cuff but canted my soles. I believe it was 0.5 degrees out, but it seemed to make it harder for me to get on my inside edge. On the other two pairs of ski boots since then, I’ve left the cuffs centered and the soles flat. That’s been working very well for me. For the snowboard boots I’ve just followed Beckmann’s method of walking on a hard surface and checking to see if the soles strike flat. They do, so I haven’t made any cuff angle adjustments on those either.
-
Great video. Thanks for posting it, @barryj.
1 minute ago, dgCarve said:Examples of typical fall line carving
Yep, been a big fan of the videos from this group.
-
Hey @barryj, yep, going to be riding a direct mount for a while so I can hone these skills. Also as the run in this video was a mild green and I was going slower than normal, there wasn't a need for me to round out the turns. I'm definitely further across the fall line and making rounder turns when at higher speed even on this run and certainly on the blues. The 'too much speed' issue on the blues is primarily because I was initiating and exiting the turns with my board more downhill than across the hill.
-
16 minutes ago, dgCarve said:
Looks like you like fall line carving, therefore I shared my experience as I prefer it too.
And I appreciate you sharing your experience. Also what I have borrowed from my skiing that has been helpful is transitioning to the downhill edge and applying pressure before the apex as you mentioned. That plus quick turns were primarily what enabled me to keep carving on the blues rather than having to scrub my speed. When I was riding previously, I'm sure I just missed those tips on this board. But after following Harald Harb's PMTS method for the past 12 years, I realized some of those principles and drills could be applied to my riding as well. It's been working well and allowed me to start riding again.
-
1
-
-
11 minutes ago, dgCarve said:
Looking down the fall like is ok and actually required for some styles.
Gotcha. Perhaps that’s something for me to work back to, then, once I’m more consistent with my heel sides and stop counter-rotating.
-
Thanks, @Rob Stevens. You picked up on two of my habits from skiing: Counter-rotating and looking down the fall line. I thought I eliminated this (Lowell Hart pointed this out when I had a lesson with him years ago), but apparently it's still there. And as you mentioned, I have found from my experience that looking across the hill rather than down the fall line eliminates my heel side chatter. Need to be more consistent with that. 32-year habits (from skiing) die hard, I guess. Really appreciate the feedback and the direction for what I should be shooting for.
@SunSurfer, you pretty well described this season for me. After an 11-year hiatus, I'm considering it a rebuilding year both in terms of my equipment and my technique. Been trying a bunch of different gear, and I think I'm honing in on what's most beneficial for me. Based on the feedback I've received in response to this thread, I also think after my breakthrough days on the Gecko, I should have taken what I learned there and applied it to a direct mount setup rather than trying it on the BP. I'll keep the BP as you recommend, but focus more on these skills with no plate.
This year I had a primary goal: As I've been a fall line rider, I wanted to complete my turns a bit more so I could carve more consistently on the blues and control my speed. I still want to ride in a fairly narrow corridor, but previously I would build too much speed on the blues. With the Gecko on the SG and the VIRUS, I was able to achieve this goal. I thought the free flex under the BP would make these full turns even easier, but I probably jumped the gun on that. I will work more on these skills with a direct mount. I'm also looking forward to meeting and riding with the people in this community. As I mentioned previously, I know I did myself a great disservice by not connecting with you all when I was riding before. Your feedback will be invaluable, I'm sure.
Thanks, all.
Keith
-
17 minutes ago, dgCarve said:
I wonder if issues you experienced related to 4mm Lite plate.
Since you pointed out how my knees were too close together and the softness of the plate could be the culprit there, I’ve been wondering that, too. With that collapsed knee position, it makes sense that this could open up several other problems with the fundamentals. I’m tempted to try the 5 mm, but that’s probably a bridge too far since I’m not actually doing any racing. I’m also pretty maxed out on how much weight I’m willing to have pulling on my boot when I’m on the lift, and I think the 5 mm would be too much.
This exploration with the Gecko and the BP has been positive overall, particularly with the Gecko as it opened my eyes to some changes in my riding I was trying to make. Also since I rode best with that setup, maybe that’s as far as I need to go with the plate options.
-
Hi @lowrider thanks for your comments. Yes, I’m definitely riding more upright here as I wasn’t riding at my normal speed and aggressiveness. I hope the video isn’t misleading as it’s not that representative of how I normally ride, and I was also riding with a lot of compensation for what I felt the board was doing awkwardly and unexpectedly.
I rode in choppy conditions this weekend and really see the benefit. I’d like to dial in the setup so I don’t feel like I’m fighting it.
-
2 minutes ago, dgCarve said:
Maybe because plate is soft (4mm lite) and it just bents too much.
That makes sense regarding the knees. I was also thinking torsionally it might not be stiff enough as well - not as a factor regarding the knees, but wondering about its overall fitness for how I'm riding.
-
2 minutes ago, dgCarve said:
Try to minimize body rotation, preferably eliminate it.
Definitely. Working on that and was surprised to seem some here. But again this was a pretty relaxed run, so I'm expecting a number of differences here from how I normally ride. I appreciate your feedback!
-
1
-
-
I'm wondering if the minus position was part of my compensation. Earlier when I mentioned lowering the angle of the rear binding, that thought was based on the feeling this setup gave me that my right hip was rotating forward. I felt like keeping it back would help prevent this unexpected rotation.
It's also interesting that you mention my knees. I have been more aware of how close they are after getting on this plate. I don't know the reason for that as it does feel unlike how I normally ride. I wish I had video of me riding on the Gecko or on a direct mount to compare.
-
Sorry, I should have shared this video from the beginning, but I was reluctant because this isn't showing the primary problems in action. However you might be able to pick up on something. This is the first day on the Boiler Plate. Part of my reluctance to post this was because I was riding slower than normal so my fellow rider could keep up and keep me in view on his GoPro. I am SO impressed with his ability to keep me in the frame while on his board, but I also wasn't sure if this view would help or hinder your ability to analyze my riding. Also my turns really start around 0:15-0:16. Prior to that was some intentional skidded turns to get past a roller at the top of the hill before letting it run. So this will give you a sense of my riding, but I'm not at my normal speed and aggressiveness, and this is on a pretty mild green. I don't have any video of the rotation when I'm gliding at slow speed, and the big skidded turns on the heel side were happening yesterday on the blues, again not always, but this occasionally happened and was unexpected as I wasn't trying to rotate the board / kick my back foot forward.
One thing I do notice here is that I look to be more heavily weighted on the rear foot than I expected. As I mentioned after this first day on the BP, my back leg and the glute on that side were quite sore. I feel like I must have been fighting the tendency of the board to rotate on me, and I'm guessing that rearward bias was how I compensated. This is with the 56 cm axle spacing and less distance between the bindings and the axles. I don't have any such soreness today (after riding yesterday), so again I think the 59 cm axle spacing was a small step in the right direction. Anyway if nothing else, I hope this at least gives you a general sense of my ability.
-
Hi, @SunSurfer. Awesome. I appreciate the advice on contacting Richard Knapp.
I am 165 cm tall and have a 78 cm inseam. Using the method of 0.607 x inseam, that's how I arrived at a 47 cm stance width. I have also experimented with 46, 48, and 49 cm stance widths. 47 seems best for me.
If this were only happening on my heel side turns, I'd agree that it's very likely something with my technique, or at least that has a large part to play. But since I also get this crazy rotation at a very slow, gliding speed with minor pressure on the heel side edge, and I'm primarily just trying to go straight mind you before the hill drops down, and I've never had anything like this happen with any other setup, I know there has to be a significant component of this issue coming from the plate or my setup of the plate and bindings. Also without this plate (so with direct mounts and with the Gecko Carve), the only significant issue I've had in the past (that is, what I'm aware of and working on; I'm sure others could provide other areas of improvement) is some occasional chatter on the heel side, which I typically correct by looking more in the direction I'm going or even inside the turn, looking more uphill rather than down the fall line, which is my tendency from all my years of skiing. On other setups I haven't had these big, unexpected skidded / rotational turns on the heel side either. Especially after learning to ride more relaxed (thanks to the Gecko primarily) and being able to focus more on my technique (a big change here was looking in the direction I'm going or inside the turn), I've been really happy with my carving on both sides. I'm positive there is room for improvement, but I can't discount the effect of the plate and/or the setup since I'm getting wildly different outcomes between my setups with and without this plate. Given all the great advice I've been receiving in this thread, it sounds like my setup on these first two iterations of riding the plate is what's hurting me the most.
-
4 hours ago, barryj said:
What size boots?
Hey, @barryj. My boots are 25.0. With my initial setup, I tried to estimate the location of the ball of my foot by balancing on it while wearing the boots on a hard floor, and I marked the location with some painter's tape. On that setup, I think the ball of the foot was about 1.5 cm behind the axle. But since I saw a little improvement with this issue this week with more setback, and also with several others reporting their positive experience with a wider axle spacing, it sounds like the thing I should try next.
-
That's great feedback, @rjnakata. Thank you!
-
That’s correct, @barryj. Last week I had them closer to the ball of the foot and the heel, but this week I spread the axles out and increased the binding distance from the axles thinking that I was getting too much of a reaction from the board. I’ll try the widest axle placement next and have less heel side bias in the binding.
-
2 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:
Where? What is your perception of pressure application? Front foot, rear foot, both feet?
Thanks for your input and questions, @Beckmann AG !
When I wrote the part about putting a little bit of pressure on the heel side, in that case I was referring to just gliding along like at the top of the run after getting into the rear binding. I’d say the pressure application is just from moving my CoM slightly towards the heel side, and I feel pressure pretty evenly on the back of the cuff of both boots. This is a very subtle movement, something that doesn’t seem to warrant that kind of reaction if the board.
2 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:Does that mean you moved both out from a centralized location, or did you move both axles out and move the plate rearward?
Since I moved the axles from 56 to 59 cm, I moved only the rear axle outward from center. I moved the rear binding outward as well, which gave it a net increase of distance from the axle of 1 cm. I also moved the front binding back to maintain my stance width, and this was a net 2 cm increase in setback from the axle. However I also mounted the plate 2 cm ahead of center because I didn’t want to be too rearward biased.
2 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:Being 'balanced on both feet' may well be imparting too much bend to the front end of the board.
In general, if a board pivots or skids without you kicking it around, it's because you're bending it unevenly.
Given that your boots have an underslung heel, and that the board is hyper to the heelside, the logical place to start is to tweak your offset. From the photos you look biased to the heel side.
Gotcha. That’s all very helpful. Thanks so much!
-
@bigwavedave, likewise I eliminated my outward cant when going from UPZ to .951, except for the slight amount I still have on the front due to the 58* binding angle and 55* cant disk angle. But I think I’ll try riding 55 / 50 to have 0-cant on each and lower the rear binding angle.
Surprisingly I didn’t think to try a carpet carving session on the BP. I just duplicated what was working for me on the Gecko, which was a very comfortable, fluid stance throughout a 20-minute carpet carving test and performed well on snow. With the UPZ, I previously thought I needed to go to 6* lifts to help prevent the serious quad burn I was having. Unfortunately my riding was quite poor at 6*. Once I started riding the .951s, the stiffer boot and more upright forward lean pretty much eliminated all my quad burn even at 3*. Anyway, I’ll set up the plate again given the suggestions here and be sure to do some carpet carving before the next day out. Thanks!
-
That makes sense, @Mr.E, and makes me more comfortable with the thought of going to the 62 cm spacing. Thanks!
And shoot, I’m in Glenwood tonight, going to Beaver Creek tomorrow. Do you all meet every Sunday? I’m trying to remember a very old post (probably from the BOL days) where someone mentioned a specific chair and time to meet. I should have met up with you all years ago.
I guess my dependence upon the Epic pass kept me from paying to go elsewhere. But that can change.
-
Forgot to mention, 3* cant disks, and 4x4 mount. Also the center disk is mounted on the front set of holes in order to get the setback relative to the axles that I was trying to achieve. Since that moved my stance back from center and the setback on the Full Race is already 60 mm, I opted to mount the BP lower assemblies 2 cm forward of center, thus putting my stance at a net 1 cm forward of center. Perhaps that wasn’t necessary if moving the plate back produces better results. Then again today’s setup has this forward mount vs last week’s was centered, and these issues seemed to be a bigger problem last week compared to this week. But of course there were other changes as well, namely the axle spacing and the binding setback from the axles.
-
Thanks, @barryj for the suggestion and for your experience with the BP! Really appreciate it. Here are some photos of the setup.
-
59 minutes ago, lonbordin said:
Ok either it does or it seems to ..
I guess I have to go with ‘seems to’, which is why I said that. When this happens (at both slow and high speed) my hands are at my sides for balance, and my upper body is stable (not rotating), shoulders square to the angle of the front binding. Haven’t tried this while holding on to my pants. I guess I could give that a try at slow speed. I don’t know if that would be much of a test at high speed since I can’t reproduce this as often at speed. Sorry, no video of this happening. If you think of when you first learned to ride (well assuming your experience might be similar to mine) and you loaded up the front foot and kicked forward with your back foot to cause a heel side skid, it feels like that. But in this case you’re balanced on both feet, you’re pressuring your boots to get onto the heel side edge, and you’re not kicking your back foot forward. Since this happens when I’m not doing anything that would normally cause a heel side skid like that, that’s why I call it ‘uncontrollable’, and weird, catching me off-guard, bizarre, and confounding. Wish this made more sense.
52 minutes ago, Mr.E said:prety well maxing out the axle spacing. With axles too close, I felt like the back of the board was harder to control (at any speed).
Sounds similar to what I’m experiencing. I appreciate the tip on maxing out the axle spacing. Since I saw a little bit of improvement today moving from 56 to 59 cm, I may need to try 62. Seems crazy given my 47 cm stance width, but probably worth a shot. Thanks!
-
1 hour ago, Jonny said:
I'm having trouble picturing how this is happening
You’re telling me. It was hard enough trying to figure out how to describe this. What I have above is as clear as I can get in trying to describe what the board is doing and what my body’s telling me. I can imagine how much trouble there must be in trying to picture this.
I'm riding the .951 WC’s. Forward lean is a bit more on the back than the front boot. Stock setup with the springs. Nothing’s loose.
Thanks for the input on your experience with riding the fixed axle up front! I will give that a try.
Riding the Boiler Plate 4mm Lite and getting a lot of heel side rotation
in Carving Central
Posted
This is so helpful, @SunSurfer. Thanks for helping me understand how a skiing background influences our riding. I'll work on leveraging what you've shared thus far. I'm also sensitive to the fact that we're pretty far off topic at this point, and another thread in the future would be more appropriate for this discussion.
And yep, @dgCarve, it was the typical binding angles of SL racers that had me try 45* on the VIRUS, but 58*/55* felt plenty quick to me edge-to-edge. For the reasons that SunSurfer's stating above, it makes sense that this would be more in my sweet spot given my skiing background.
Thanks, all. I appreciate the input that everyone has provided.