KB303

This is so helpful, @SunSurfer. Thanks for helping me understand how a skiing background influences our riding. I'll work on leveraging what you've shared thus far. I'm also sensitive to the fact that we're pretty far off topic at this point, and another thread in the future would be more appropriate for this discussion. And yep, @dgCarve, it was the typical binding angles of SL racers that had me try 45* on the VIRUS, but 58*/55* felt plenty quick to me edge-to-edge. For the reasons that SunSurfer's stating above, it makes sense that this would be more in my sweet spot given my skiing background. Thanks, all. I appreciate the input that everyone has provided.

That’s super interesting. Thanks,@SunSurfer. And that helps explain why I feel very comfortable even up to 67.5* / 65* on my Donek with an 18 cm waist, versus I felt like I had to learn to ride all over again when I tried 48* / 45* on the VIRUS with a 20 cm waist. More recently I was at 58* / 55* on the VIRUS, and that was a more intuitive feel. Other than being more aware of using the sides of the feet and boots for inclining and balancing (and having the appropriate binding angles), are there any other major technique tips that you would advise for this style?

Hi @SunSurfer, I skied for many years before I started snowboarding. Just didn’t discover Harb’s system until 2007. Also I started snowboarding because I was intrigued by a snowboarder’s ability to carve on the western Pennsylvania boilerplate that I couldn’t hold an edge on with my straight skis. I learned about the importance of sidecut, and that was before shaped skis really took off. So I got the stiffest freestyle setup I could find and was a unidirectional rider who just wanted to carve fast. Then I learned about alpine gear and figured that would appeal to me more than the freestyle setup that still felt too soft to me compared to my ski gear. So I definitely consider myself a skier who has a different way to get down the mountain rather than a snowboarder who moved to carving gear. Also Harb’s team didn’t adjust my cuff but canted my soles. I believe it was 0.5 degrees out, but it seemed to make it harder for me to get on my inside edge. On the other two pairs of ski boots since then, I’ve left the cuffs centered and the soles flat. That’s been working very well for me. For the snowboard boots I’ve just followed Beckmann’s method of walking on a hard surface and checking to see if the soles strike flat. They do, so I haven’t made any cuff angle adjustments on those either.

Great video. Thanks for posting it, @barryj. Yep, been a big fan of the videos from this group.

Hey @barryj, yep, going to be riding a direct mount for a while so I can hone these skills. Also as the run in this video was a mild green and I was going slower than normal, there wasn't a need for me to round out the turns. I'm definitely further across the fall line and making rounder turns when at higher speed even on this run and certainly on the blues. The 'too much speed' issue on the blues is primarily because I was initiating and exiting the turns with my board more downhill than across the hill.

And I appreciate you sharing your experience. Also what I have borrowed from my skiing that has been helpful is transitioning to the downhill edge and applying pressure before the apex as you mentioned. That plus quick turns were primarily what enabled me to keep carving on the blues rather than having to scrub my speed. When I was riding previously, I'm sure I just missed those tips on this board. But after following Harald Harb's PMTS method for the past 12 years, I realized some of those principles and drills could be applied to my riding as well. It's been working well and allowed me to start riding again.

Gotcha. Perhaps that’s something for me to work back to, then, once I’m more consistent with my heel sides and stop counter-rotating.

Thanks, @Rob Stevens. You picked up on two of my habits from skiing: Counter-rotating and looking down the fall line. I thought I eliminated this (Lowell Hart pointed this out when I had a lesson with him years ago), but apparently it's still there. And as you mentioned, I have found from my experience that looking across the hill rather than down the fall line eliminates my heel side chatter. Need to be more consistent with that. 32-year habits (from skiing) die hard, I guess. Really appreciate the feedback and the direction for what I should be shooting for. @SunSurfer, you pretty well described this season for me. After an 11-year hiatus, I'm considering it a rebuilding year both in terms of my equipment and my technique. Been trying a bunch of different gear, and I think I'm honing in on what's most beneficial for me. Based on the feedback I've received in response to this thread, I also think after my breakthrough days on the Gecko, I should have taken what I learned there and applied it to a direct mount setup rather than trying it on the BP. I'll keep the BP as you recommend, but focus more on these skills with no plate. This year I had a primary goal: As I've been a fall line rider, I wanted to complete my turns a bit more so I could carve more consistently on the blues and control my speed. I still want to ride in a fairly narrow corridor, but previously I would build too much speed on the blues. With the Gecko on the SG and the VIRUS, I was able to achieve this goal. I thought the free flex under the BP would make these full turns even easier, but I probably jumped the gun on that. I will work more on these skills with a direct mount. I'm also looking forward to meeting and riding with the people in this community. As I mentioned previously, I know I did myself a great disservice by not connecting with you all when I was riding before. Your feedback will be invaluable, I'm sure. Thanks, all. Keith

Since you pointed out how my knees were too close together and the softness of the plate could be the culprit there, I’ve been wondering that, too. With that collapsed knee position, it makes sense that this could open up several other problems with the fundamentals. I’m tempted to try the 5 mm, but that’s probably a bridge too far since I’m not actually doing any racing. I’m also pretty maxed out on how much weight I’m willing to have pulling on my boot when I’m on the lift, and I think the 5 mm would be too much. This exploration with the Gecko and the BP has been positive overall, particularly with the Gecko as it opened my eyes to some changes in my riding I was trying to make. Also since I rode best with that setup, maybe that’s as far as I need to go with the plate options.

Hi @lowrider thanks for your comments. Yes, I’m definitely riding more upright here as I wasn’t riding at my normal speed and aggressiveness. I hope the video isn’t misleading as it’s not that representative of how I normally ride, and I was also riding with a lot of compensation for what I felt the board was doing awkwardly and unexpectedly. I rode in choppy conditions this weekend and really see the benefit. I’d like to dial in the setup so I don’t feel like I’m fighting it.

That makes sense regarding the knees. I was also thinking torsionally it might not be stiff enough as well - not as a factor regarding the knees, but wondering about its overall fitness for how I'm riding.

Definitely. Working on that and was surprised to seem some here. But again this was a pretty relaxed run, so I'm expecting a number of differences here from how I normally ride. I appreciate your feedback!

I'm wondering if the minus position was part of my compensation. Earlier when I mentioned lowering the angle of the rear binding, that thought was based on the feeling this setup gave me that my right hip was rotating forward. I felt like keeping it back would help prevent this unexpected rotation. It's also interesting that you mention my knees. I have been more aware of how close they are after getting on this plate. I don't know the reason for that as it does feel unlike how I normally ride. I wish I had video of me riding on the Gecko or on a direct mount to compare.

Sorry, I should have shared this video from the beginning, but I was reluctant because this isn't showing the primary problems in action. However you might be able to pick up on something. This is the first day on the Boiler Plate. Part of my reluctance to post this was because I was riding slower than normal so my fellow rider could keep up and keep me in view on his GoPro. I am SO impressed with his ability to keep me in the frame while on his board, but I also wasn't sure if this view would help or hinder your ability to analyze my riding. Also my turns really start around 0:15-0:16. Prior to that was some intentional skidded turns to get past a roller at the top of the hill before letting it run. So this will give you a sense of my riding, but I'm not at my normal speed and aggressiveness, and this is on a pretty mild green. I don't have any video of the rotation when I'm gliding at slow speed, and the big skidded turns on the heel side were happening yesterday on the blues, again not always, but this occasionally happened and was unexpected as I wasn't trying to rotate the board / kick my back foot forward. One thing I do notice here is that I look to be more heavily weighted on the rear foot than I expected. As I mentioned after this first day on the BP, my back leg and the glute on that side were quite sore. I feel like I must have been fighting the tendency of the board to rotate on me, and I'm guessing that rearward bias was how I compensated. This is with the 56 cm axle spacing and less distance between the bindings and the axles. I don't have any such soreness today (after riding yesterday), so again I think the 59 cm axle spacing was a small step in the right direction. Anyway if nothing else, I hope this at least gives you a general sense of my ability.

Hi, @SunSurfer. Awesome. I appreciate the advice on contacting Richard Knapp. I am 165 cm tall and have a 78 cm inseam. Using the method of 0.607 x inseam, that's how I arrived at a 47 cm stance width. I have also experimented with 46, 48, and 49 cm stance widths. 47 seems best for me. If this were only happening on my heel side turns, I'd agree that it's very likely something with my technique, or at least that has a large part to play. But since I also get this crazy rotation at a very slow, gliding speed with minor pressure on the heel side edge, and I'm primarily just trying to go straight mind you before the hill drops down, and I've never had anything like this happen with any other setup, I know there has to be a significant component of this issue coming from the plate or my setup of the plate and bindings. Also without this plate (so with direct mounts and with the Gecko Carve), the only significant issue I've had in the past (that is, what I'm aware of and working on; I'm sure others could provide other areas of improvement) is some occasional chatter on the heel side, which I typically correct by looking more in the direction I'm going or even inside the turn, looking more uphill rather than down the fall line, which is my tendency from all my years of skiing. On other setups I haven't had these big, unexpected skidded / rotational turns on the heel side either. Especially after learning to ride more relaxed (thanks to the Gecko primarily) and being able to focus more on my technique (a big change here was looking in the direction I'm going or inside the turn), I've been really happy with my carving on both sides. I'm positive there is room for improvement, but I can't discount the effect of the plate and/or the setup since I'm getting wildly different outcomes between my setups with and without this plate. Given all the great advice I've been receiving in this thread, it sounds like my setup on these first two iterations of riding the plate is what's hurting me the most.