SteveInOregon

Thank You for Your input. :)

Argue ?, no not at all , in fact I was having a nice pleasant conversation and learning experience we chated for almost an hour.;)

For that price they better come with breasts attached to them, lol:rolleyes:. But seriously, maybe he was talking about $300 beds. To answer the other gentleman about "packed out" liners: My boots are about 10 years old , they basically really do feel comfy, with no hard spots, no rubbing, no pain to complain about, but and this is the crux of my OP is> this is a small "but" they could use a "bit" more all around snug heel hold and plushness, the bed is "hard". I want to eliminate the air space around my heel the little pockets of space that keep the boot from holding it in place like a momma holds a babies hand :rolleyes: I'm not going to invest 300 in a foot bed, I mite as well just buy a new pair, ahhhhhh but what pair I guess when in doubt just buy the most expensive pair on the market ( throwing dice on table ) and hope it lands on a pair of keepers. You guys who live in a major ski area have it made, You can just pop in to Das Boot N Skee and jump into a pair and try them for a carpet ride. We dudes and dude-et's we have to shop for UPZ's via UPS, lol. I dont want this to be a run away post that goes down a rabbit hole, I may be spinning all Your wheels, perhaps I should get new boots. So do You guys , when You buy a 3 to 5 bill pair do You all toss in an after market liner or foot bed or do the new boots come with real good ones already ?

I really don't have any special or nagging type of "foot or ankle issues" , hell even my healed ankle is not an issue. I just want my boots to fit a bit more securely and not have any heel lift type of movement , that and a comfy snug fit with no over pressure making my toes cold, so I guess I will go with $50 foot beds and take it from there for now ?. I will watch this post to see what more experienced riders have gone through and advise. I may have the cart before the horse and need to dump the old Nordicas and toss 3 to 5 on spanky new booties with all the cool booty bells , buckles and whistles, lol :D

So here I go again: Update: broken ankle from last years 1st season on hard boots is A-ok, when't n gotta better stick ( a RennTiger) than last years 1st carve board the OxyProton aka rock board, ( deep breath in ) SOOoooooooo I was in the mountaineering / outfitting store thee other day and a master ski boot fitter was shooting the breeze with the proprietor friend of mine about going to a boot fitting seminar up in Tahoe yada yada yada, I jumped in and explained my situation and he said that he was a ski racer and has a few session on alpine hard boot / boards. I mentioned wishing to upgrade my comfort ankle security and over all fit old Nodica 3 buckle's with some high end heat mold able liners and he stopped me and said (paraphrasing ) " Your wasting your money on mold-able liners , go with a high quality foot bed instead" I was like "ohhhh really" , I thought the liner would kind of vacuum pack my ankle in and keep me from making any movement / shifting in my boot and make a secure safe fitment ? He asked me a bunch of questions He said " Ya but Your not a racer and you do not need a custom liner at all , keep the stock liner, what You need Steve is a high quality mold-able foot bed with the proper arch . He said he does understand the difference between ski and alpine boots, torsional flex, angle of bindings, stiffness etc. ( continuing ) He Said: You need boots that locate Your ankle in the right pocket for / aft for your particular foot and he was adamant that you need to try on every pair of boots you can get your hands on "before" buying . He said " Steve I just got back from the local ski shop and I tried on almost 20 pairs of boots and only 1 pair felt secure and right for my calcified 40 year old foot, all the others would only bring me sorrow and soreness, and so You Steve need to try before You buy. I laughed out loud and said : You obviously know that Alpine hard booting is a niche , minority almost boutique sport that does not lend it's self to volume sales and so no ski / board store will stock alpine equip, and to find a ski / board shop that actually does have Alpine boots on the shelf I would have to go to Aspen and then only maybe they would have more than one brand or model in stock so I have to rely on reading BOL to make a non experiential moderately informed decisions from guys ( and gals ) who already went through boot heel ( hell ) to work out an acceptable criteria of what is good, what is a secure fitment, what is quality and what is a waist of money. He also said: If You ride reasonably hard Your boots are worn out after about 5 seasons no matter how pretty they are , and are worn out a LOT faster if Your a racer ( no matter how clean & shiny they are ) He said : Your boots should fit so good that you don't need to cinch them up ultra hard to get a good fit for speed and hard turns, and that You can keep them on ALL day, even during lunch breaks etc... and forget they are on, and only take them off at the end of the day, that is how good they should fit Steve, also he said that here is no need for heavy socks to "fill in the gaps" just one pair of medium to light socks are needed when a boot fits properly. Heavy socks will cut off the blood flow from the top of Your foot and cause cold toes. He said boots are thee #1 most important peace of equipment, a board is a far 2nd but 90+ % of riders place the board as #1 and that is totally wrong. So, he gave a lot of anatomy and a lot of ski racer experience but I wonder iof his Alpine experience is enough to take the liner / no liner advice ? 1) What do You long time Alpine peeps think of liners vs foot bed's. 2) My old but clean 3 buckle's > a waist , get rid of them and buy up to a spanking new pair ? 3 ) Boots are shot after 5 average seasons of typical riding no matter how good they look ? Your "experienced" input is appreciated:rolleyes:

Thank U for replying tho :rolleyes:, a D -FC will have no problem selling.;) I'm going to edit this ad or try to take it off

I don't know if You are addressing me, but I got an acceptance to buy it as 1st shot at it reply, and now I am attempting to pay at this time for the Yellow RT as I believe it to the the 185cm. Personaly I dont care what color it is so long as it is not a rock board and it is a 185cm RT :)

steve_evans_oregon@yahoo.com Thanks

Volkl Renntiger 185 (very stiff) $100 My e-mail is steve_evans_oregon@yahoo.com

I just made a deal, so I am good to go now

Keep cruising the local pawn shops it may show up .

Sweet, looks like I'm gonna do a June Mnt run next year then ;)

Hummm gotcha Jack, could a BX board be considered a kind of All Mountain board then ?

Ya I took mine off "immediately" and packed it in snow for the 20 min it took ski patrol to find me, luckily taking mine off was not hard. So can you advise what you set up was, did you have custom liner system, etc... ?

I read the OP and the comprehensive replies very carefully and my situation may ad some clues and probable causative factors to the mix. My front - lead ankle is fractured :confused:Could Be Due To: I had no custom heat mold-able liners. No custom foot bed. Boots are sized right, "but" there is not enough what I call "heel hug", to much air space , I pretty much knew a custom liner system would be my next purchase I have a lot of front boot-toe lift in the front binding. I have a high degree a tad over over 55 degrees on front boot vs 45 on back . I has very tired after riding hard all day and the day before, to borrow a quote from above : "The board was riding me instead of me riding the board. Blue bird day 2pm, weekend, full capacity crowd, soft & slushy, lot of ruts and trenches. Note: my boots were cranked up tite on all buckles, I like them real tite and then un-clip them on the lift, only to crank them back down before heading down. > I may not need to due this with custom liners< End Result: > I did a lazy 45 heel side slide to slow down for traffic and the nose caught and slammed to a stop from somewhere about 15 mph or less to a dead stop and then jolting twist with the back end jumped up and swinging around> crunch I could hear it ( obviously feel it ) this was a sudden deceleration fracture.:( I hope this ad's value to the thread :)

> Ok this is naive question, I have never been on a SBX course, there are no SBX courses on any of my local board-ski resorts, so does one of Aspen's mountains have one for armatures to use and test your Victori equip ? Being a specialized board for a highly specific course would it not be a waist of time to let carvers use them on public groom ? like handing out a bunch of high end motocross race bikes for demo so we can ride them on the freeway lol. ?:)

June opens at 7:30 am > . I hear June is sweet, I have done Mam a lot, but not June, so what is your assesment of June for carving long board style ????

Ya JoJo is the bomb. Did you know that Steve Smith lives in my town, cool huh. Ya I played the Whiskey and Roxy many times, also lots of private gig's and festivals. I am going to buy a doulbe pedal only because I cant use my broken right ankle / pedal foot so I am going to experiment with left-hihat foot as my kick foot. Ya I will go look at that youtube you mentioned.:)

Yes, night time, not vertigo, thanks ;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, I was sitting on the chair around 7pm durring a night time session and thinking why dont they do a lunch break groom run in the day , or a groom machine pass at night to freshen up the slope, so Your resort is on top of it. I guess it wouldn't work on some resort-mountains, I suppose it depends on the terrain lay out, size and other factors as to if its feasible at other mountains.

Welcome, This is the mother of all hard boot -binding forums, with readers from all over the world. A lot of the guys who regularly contribute here have been riding hard boots on long skinny so called "alpine" boards for many many years, some are builders, and some are PGS type racers. There are some run of the mill jerks here (( like me )) ;) but I am on Vicodin and home made beer right now so I am a nice guy at least for a few hours lol, (busted my ankle ). Seriously: I started this season on opening day so I am a NUB like You to hard boots. The 1st time on hard boots was this Dec I attached plate bindings to my 176 all mountain board (( profile photo )) and loved it, I started out just going higher in boot angle degree a bit at a time, and soon I was up past 55 degrees in a few weeks on the front boot and just a little less on the back. You will soon find that the typical all mountain board does not have enough inherent stability up on edge at a high angle. ( specially compared to a narrow focus carving board, but If you are a a good athlete You have flog it into high angle corners and "make" it stick the carve I am not a techno guy, nor do I have enough time on carving boards to give you an in depth explanation, but its my limited experience that a non carving board does not have a lot of what I call "edge hold" ability it flexes to much, chatters, lack torsional kind of stability and feels like it wants to literally break. Remedy: I bought a $75 "rock board" here off of the BOL " buy & sell section by posting in the "wanted to buy" forum what I was looking for. I got a 185cm legit skinny width Oxygen carving board and Ebay boots and 2nd hand old plate bindings just to get my feet wet and I LOVE it. so yuo dont have to buy a $500 or $1,200 board and $250 or more boots. The difference is day & night, this old alpine carving board is stable and has no problem being tossed or leaned up on high edge, it transitions from left to right edge fast and holding an arc is no problem so long as you stay on top of it, and "fast", ya they are a lot faster than a typical park or fat & wide pow sled, its not "ski" fast but the fastest board on the mountain in a strait bomb & transition to carve. ( that is if I am the only alpine carve guy on the mountain, wich is usually the case ) Oh ya, one more thing if you want to keep posting here after 1 season then you have to buy new Bomber brand binding from Fin < owner of BOL lol.:p

Funny but I have never really thought about why the resorts open at 9AM near me which seams late in the morning instead of 8 or 7 or even sunrise ??? I never paid attention, is it that the slope Zamboni's take that long to get off the mountain , or workers take to long to get organized ???, black ice on the road up ??? If I could ride at 8AM that would be 1 extra hour of open clean groom to ride before the mob shows up at 12 noon. I would be willing to pay a higher "early bird" fee get on the lift before the mob arrives. You guys who work or worked at resorts, can you answer my question ???

The surf style is the style I love and naturally transitioned over to myself in hard boots. The guy in the white pants with black knee patches expresses is perfectly it in a pure fluid fun & clean intuitive style. ;)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- DAM, so does that require invasive surgery to take out bone reagments and / or reattach it ? :o

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Timex NO, Visa NO, spare key NO, cell phone NO. GLOCK > NEVER leave home without it.:)