Michael Pukas

I agree with Jim - there's lots of freeride boards happening here in the west. Get on facebook and look up Cam Farrell - he's got a new vid taken by Snowman doing the follow-cam of a new Never Summer Raptor 169 - he's ripping on it! If you want to know about rocker in carving boards - do a search. There was a big discussion/debate here last year. Bascially, rocker works for carving boards! One thing a rockered nose does is to allow the board to float over uneven surfaces better than a purely cambered board which is always trying to plow through and dig into the snow. Put a rockered board on edge and the nose is already into the curve the board will take during the turn. In my book - rocker = an up-turn in the board. Camber = a down-turn in the board. De-camber means to bend the board against it's camber, meaning down. I think de-camber is a term misused to describe rocker. Early-rise is a term that I think is appropraite to describe rocker in the nose. Now rocker and camber in freeride/freestyle boards has gone in a different direction. Never Summer just patented their shape - it's rocker between the feet and camber under each foot. Lots of other companies are doing that as well - Burton, Lib-Tech, Gnu, etc. I haven't riden one of these baords yet so I can't comapre. Then there are freestyle and powder boards that are completely rocker - no camber at all. Alpine decks have gone the route that skis have gone where there's camber under foot and rocker in the nose and tail. The degree of rocker in the nose (and tail) gets specific to what the intended purpose is.

The duckbill doesn't really contact the board - some device(s) needs to be installed between the bottom of the buckbill and the top of the board - i.e. bumpers. And even then the bumpers may not be in constant contact with the board - the board may need to bend to touch the bottom of the bumpers. Installing a bumper(s) only introduces a new point load(s) - the force of the plate is not spread out over a larger surface area of the board, only distributed to the points where the bumpers are. You could, in theory, install 4 or 6 or 8 bumpers, and then you're starting to distribute the load over a larger area, but you're also increasing the upward stress on the plate further, which it isn't really designed to withstand. You can still fold the nose of a non-plate-specific board around the foremost point if you load the nose too much. Personal preference and opinion here, but I think it's much better to have a board designed to be ridden with a plate than to have a plate with a duckbill trying to modify the flex of a board (as much as I LOVE the look of the duckbill).

Lots of different topics being bashed around here lately, so here's my take on some of them... You don't need to modify your stance or cants to ride a plate. Just as Fin said, we spend a lot of time setting up the perfect stance on the carpet - now with a plate we get to keep that perfect stance. Of course, once you start riding you may find what feels good on carpet doesn't always work on snow. I think there's a point where a plate can be too stiff - but stiffer is better than not stiff is enough. I've only ridden a couple of protos, and didn't get to ride Trappy's plate, and I've found that a soft plate doesn't work as well as a stiff plate. If a plate is too soft, it transmits too much feedback and doesn't act as an isolator. But I think too stiff and you loose some connection to the board, especially at low speeds. Stiffer plates work better at high speeds. Plates definitely add more force to the nose of the board, so boards need to compensate for this by becoming slightly more stiff in the nose, not less stiff. As Snowman said, when riding a plate you don't need to load the nose of the board as hard as without a plate - you can ride more centered on the board. In fact you can't load the nose of the board too much, or it will fold and/or wash out - happened to me many times on both toe and heel side turns. A plate with a diving board trying to modify the flex of the board adds more forces to the plate itself and can cause failure of the plate (seen it). In theory it sounds like a good idea, and looks and sounds way cool - BlueB is right - bumpers can be positioned at different points under the diving board to hit the board in different places to adjust the flex as needed. But I don't think it works well in actual application - it puts a point load on the board where the bumper(s) is, and also further increases stress on the plate. One advantage I see of the UPM vs 4x4 mounts is the UPM puts the pivots points out farther. With the pivot points farther outside the bindings, there's less ability to positively camber the plate (bend it up in the middle) by teeter-tottering the bindings, and the plate doesn't need to be quite as stiff. Until I get a plate mounted on a board w/ both UPM and 4x4 I won't know for sure.

I agree John - that's another aspect of off-piste snowboarding boards that is a primary concern for me - hiking. I've hiked & snow shoed in SB boots too - they absolutley suck. Put a pair of Fin-Tecs on them and you've got a death wish if you're hiking on any sort of rocky terrain. Snowman - you be f*$%@g careful!!!

How's the new liner?

Well that's a bit disapointing. I was hoping that since the RC-10's are touted being the lightest weight alpine snowboard boot that the ATB's would be similarly as light. I wonder how much their liner weighs and if there would be a weight reduction going to an Intuition Power Wrap liner. Those boots are not cheap either - $600 puts them in close company of Garmont, Dynafit and Scarpa, amoung others. The boots I've listed below are the top-end from each company and they offer models in the $600 range. Garmont Radium - 1790 gr = 3.95 lbs - $760.00 Dynafit ZZero4 C TF - 1595 gr = 3.52 lbs - $750 Scarpa Skookum - 1876 gr = 4.14 lbs - $720 Plus, each of these boots are AWESOME! Saying that, I'm not sure how well they'd work for free-ride and powder boarding as well as they do for skiing (obviously). One of the biggest drawbacks I see to AT boots is the forward lean and fore-aft flex characteristics. They all have walk/ride mech's that lock in at an angle forward - but that may or may not be ideal for boarding. I don't know - I'm sure they would work, but the question is how well. I would love to test drive a pair... as well as a pair of the UPZ ATB's... or at least see a pair in person...

Thank You Thank You Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's just not gonna be the same without you this year, Ace. :( Looking foreward to seeing you pre-SES!!!

Yeah, and then you'll end up in a saga like Fin and the Keystone Speed Poilce last year!

erm, while all this may be good and all (and honestly I can't really follow what your on about here), what Fin is refering to is the interface between rider and plate, regardless of what the board is doing underneath. What he's refering to is really quite simple: If the pivot points are underneath the bindings, then it's easy to flex the plate due to a teter-toter effect. This teter-totering makes you feel unbalanced, not strong and tires you very quickly. To eliminate this effect, the plate needs to be very, very stiff. When the pivot points are moved outwards of the bindings, you don't have the same leverage to flex the plate, so the plate stays more rigid naturally, and you stay more stable and get greater benefit of the plate (as Sean described in his stick-leg vid). The UPM pattern, among other things, offers a wider spread of the pivot hardware. Other benfits of a wider pivot spread are yet to be determined, and you are probably onto to something.

I knew Volcom had a patent on the zipper interface, but didn't know they enforced it this year. That would explain why the new AK pants I've looked at don't have the zipper. Too bad!!! :(

The tech spec's look great, but they are hideous! :p

I find it interesting that you didn't like the fit of Arc pants - I find their fit to be the best. I *had* the Theta SV bibs and loved how they fit (but they were XL and I grew tired of how big they were on me, so I sold them on fleabay - so stupid - I *had* Arc'Teryx bibs, and now I don't, even if they were too big). The AK Stagger pants - and jacket - are at the top of my wish list. I looked for some closeouts f/ last year, as this year's seem to be the same, but even at sale prices I didn't want to spend the coin right now on nice pants that I might blow up in a couple months. Great to know you got 2 seasons out of them - that's encouraging! So I got some left over Burton Cargo Pants. Burton told me the fabric is similar in durability to the AK line, just doesn't have Gore-Tex or other techy features. Anxious to see how these hold up. Some of Bonfire's stuff has caught my eye too.

Look who rears his mangy head after a long summer's hibernation....

Shouldn't this be in the off-topic section?

Ahmen, brotha!

drool

whoa - check this out - a post actually related to the thread topic - what a concept! That video of the Oxxess plate got me wondering what would happen if a plate were designed to have some torsional flex. If the middle section of the plate were skinnied up, yet still kept depth for structural rigidity top to bottom, it could allow for some torsional flex, thereby allowing some twisting an pedaling of the board (if desired) while keeping the isolation effectiveness. Just wondering... ;)

Finally checked out Trew Gear. Thanks for sharing that - hadn't heard of them before. Looks nice, but pricey. With those kind of prices, their getting into Arc'Teryx territory, and there's a tough act to follow... Flylow also make some pretty good stuf, but their aimed mostly at the tele croud, and nobody cares that you tele. Recently a manager of a local board shop told me that a couples of few years ago Arc'Teryx went through a buy-out by a huge company (he said maybe it was Columbia?) and a couples of few of Arc designers left/got let go, and had been working w/ Burton. Apparently Burton's AK line is designed by the same guys that designed Arc'Teryx's stuff. If that means anythings to you...

be water my friend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USlnfTGlhXc (How does one embed a youtube video here?)

Yeah I've been thinking about those too. But even you ditch them once the conditions get harsh.

Anyone got any recommendations for good carving pants? I got a pair of DNA Louie Louie pants last season. They are good looking and well made, but the soft shell stretchy fabric has very poor abrasion resistance. The knees and butt have nearly worn through to the waterproof membrane. DNA says it's excessive wear and the fabric has not been designed for "snowboarding". I'm looking for a new pair of pants that have a durable fabric that's abrasion resistant and also has good breathability. And look good! Thanks much! mpp

If you haven't ridden a plate, then you have no idea whether or not a plate will be for you. You can speculate all you want, talk smack w/ other doubters, but you won't know until you try it. Plates are certainly not for everyone. Personally, I think they have huge potential for free carving, free riding, all-mountain riding and even powder. I can see riding a new school rockered powder board w/ a plate and side-winders as being one sweet-ass ride that the park rats will just gawk at slack-jawed in disbelief and non-comprehension as they are mached past. Maybe for pure untracked bottomless pow they are unnecessary, but how often does that happen (if that happens to you so often that you don't "need" a plate, then hats off to you, you lucky barstool!). About the only place I don't see plates working is for freestyle park & pipe riding - those guys bend twist and torque their boards too much to do what they do. A plate would inhibit this ability. As far as the added weight goes, you'll get used to it and it'll be a non-issue. If it is an issue, then you won't ride one, and we don't want to hear about how heavy you think it is and how much it hurts your leg on the lift. Did you come out to ride a snowboard or ride the chair lift? One issue with a plate can be if you have long legs, it can be difficult/impossible to get your board foot on the foot rest and under the safety bar on some lifts. We've seen it happen... Snow will build up between the plate and the board - and that weighs more then the plate does. You just have to kick it out in the lift line. The added dampening and mobility of the TD2/3 e-rings may be redundant/unnecessary with a plate. That remains to be seen. Certainly lower height and less weight are better. Both can be reduced and the net gain of height and weight will be less than the actual height/weight of the plate itself. I can see sidewinders still being useful/effective and working in harmony with a plate.

Alpha SV Gloves by Arc'teryx

I've just been thinking lately that the new plates are really gonna bring out the moronic comments.