Restraining bars

[LeeW]

Oh! Chair hitting the tower. That's REAL scary. I get that sometimes at fixed grip chairlift out at Snowmass. I truly HATE it when I am gripping my hands white on my knuckles as my chair swings a bit too much that it barely miss the tower.

[D-Sub]

of course people SHOULD use them, but the way some folks are scolding others here...it just got a little out of hand.

most of the stories here people fell off the lift because they were being stupid.

[Chris Houghton]

Here in Ontario, the lifties will actually stop the whole lift if they catch you with the bar down. So if you want to ride up, you don't have a choice.

BIG typo there - the bar must be down or they will stop the lift. Safety regs that make sense. They will actually stop the whole lift if they catch you with the bar UP. I don't want those 'mericans to think we live in a lawless backwoods up here.

[Gleb]

One time on a lift at Squaw I put the bar down, fell asleep, and woke up with my tongue stuck to the bar.

Good news: I didn't fall off and kill myself.

Bad news: my tongue was stuck to the bar.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Guest alakata]

i put it down when im tired as a footrest

[Zone]

Euh thanks Chris, not sure what I was on....

[tufty]

of course people SHOULD use them, but the way some folks are scolding others here...it just got a little out of hand.

most of the stories here people fell off the lift because they were being stupid.

Well, I wasn't trying to scold, merely pointing out the dangers that you don't necessarily see as a user of a chairlift rather than as the person responsible for a chairlift.

It amuses me[1] that people will insist on using helmets, largely because of the perceived danger from other slope users, but find it acceptable to fail to use the provided safety equipment where they personally can't see the danger. Believe me, the danger is there - whether it's a moment's inattention on your part or the part of the people on the lift with you, a technical failure, meterological conditions or some combination of any / all, the danger is there, and just as real as the danger of having some out of control obliviot slam into the back of your head with the tips of his/her skis.

According to the Sunday edition of the Dauphine Libere, another kiddie had a fall from a lift over this side of the pond a few days back, in another resort to the one I work on. 2 smashed vertebrae, currently in critical condition. Yes, the bar was up.

If you choose to ride with the bar up - fine, as long as you don't do it on my lift[2] and don't put anyone else in danger by doing so. Personally, I think it's a stupid thing to do, but that's only my opinion.

Simon

[1] I do, however, have an "odd" sense of humour

[2] or at least, if you do, that you pull the bar down and then lift it back up where I can't see you, as I am legally obliged to stop the lift if I see you with the bar up.

[D-Sub]

simon..thing is...it seems to me that the majority of people that fall do it while being stupid ie not sitting still, leaning back into the chair?

in your experience, the falls youve seen or heard of, how many were due to irresponsible behavior vs "other"?

heh...also...I had my bell rung TWICE last year by people dropping the bar without warning, so even the bar itself is dangerous!

[tufty]

in your experience, the falls youve seen or heard of, how many were due to irresponsible behavior vs "other"?

Like I said before - a momentary lapse. I'm not disagreeing with you that at least the majority of accidents happen due to user misuse, but it's not necessarily stupidity. Inattention, lack of education in how to use the lift itself, inability to see the danger, not often sheer stupidity.

The kiddie that dropped off my lift did so because he moved when the adult accompanying him had lifted the bar. But kids do move. So do adults. With the bar down, those kids run almost zero risk of an unexpected freefall experience. I'd suggest it would be close to impossible for a concious adult[1] to fall off a chair with the bar down.

Had another near one at the beginning of the season. Father with young (6 or so) child. Rather than teaching child how to use lift properly, father bodily lifts child as chair approaches. Manages to get the rear of child's skis stuck between the bottom of the seat and the frame of the chair. This is putting quite a bit of tension on the skis, the kiddie is having trouble sitting down, father has pulled the safety bar down. I've seen what's happened, and have slammed the stop button, am running down to try and unjam the kid's skis when the father starts raising the bar. Of course, the kid's skis are trying to catapult him out of the chair and face down into the snow, he's screaming for his father to stop, I'm screaming for his father to stop, I arrive and hang onto the footrests to stop him doing it. Explain situation, unjam skis, all is well. 2 seconds later and the kid would most likely have a bloody nose (at least).

heh...also...I had my bell rung TWICE last year by people dropping the bar without warning, so even the bar itself is dangerous!

Nope. Not the bar. That's down to misuse again. I assume it was footrests and not the bar itself - to get clouted by the actual bar on my lift would require you to be either about 9 feet tall or leaning so far forward that you would have fallen out of the chair in a stop situation anyway :)

We see quite a few 'obliviots' who go through the gate, then stand rigid at the end of the runway, staring forward despite the shouts of "mind the chair". Quite a good proportion of them get a good belt on the noggin from the frame of the chair, which has a tendency to make you sit down and rub the back of your head. Maybe they should claim the chair is dangerous and needs redesigning?

Simon

[1] It's possible for pedestrians or "tired" skiers to use our lift to come down, but if you're drunk or badly injured, you can't go down without signing a waiver for exactly that reason.

[D-Sub]

what you call other things I call stupidity, Simon. different words, different views?

if someone cant see the inherent danger in a moving chair hanging up to 50 feet in the air, they are stupid.

kids are slightly excepted, of course, but then they should have adults (who are too often stupid)

;)

anyway...I like the footrests, so bar down is cool by me. and maybe youre right thats what conked me in the head last year. twice.

[tufty]

what you call other things I call stupidity, Simon. different words, different views?

if someone cant see the inherent danger in a moving chair hanging up to 50 feet in the air, they are stupid.

Oblivious. Personal security bubble. Not necessarily stupid in my view, just not really concious of what they are doing. There's levels of that, of course. Not paying attention to a chairlift is one thing, taking completely inexperienced (i.e never been on skis / snowboards ever) learners up to an area of a resort where they will hit reds / blacks is another, skiing off-piste on a black flag day where if you trigger a slide it will hit a slope is completely another. Proportions are different, too - the first is probably 50% of our users, the second we see about 5 cases a week, and the latter I saw yesterday.

You're right about the kids, with the exception that, once shown how to do it and left to their own devices, kids generally manage to get on and off lifts better than their parents :)

and maybe youre right thats what conked me in the head last year. twice.

You need a helmet :)

/ducks

Simon

[D-Sub]

You need a helmet :)

/ducks

Simon

no crap, huh! what really got me was, the first time...it PISSED me off...I actually saw stars and I yelled at the guy, and

no one said anything. not him, not his wife. they never said a single word.

[Skwalleur]

well, i believe that putting down the restraining bar is unneccesary because all chairs are designed so that if they are going full speed and then come to a sudden stop, no one will fall out. that is unless someone is leaning forward very far. The chair will tilt back and forth to keep whater is on the chair from falling off.

I wear my helmet because of the icy conditions out here and its saved me countless times from serious injury.

I don't get this one either. I've never actually been on any lifts without one, but I've been happy to have used the safety at the time when an emergency stop once almost threw me out of the chair.

But most of all, I find it very strange that they are so rare in the US than here in Europe. I usually find your culture with warning signs on literally everything, and "sign-here-so-you-won't-sue-us-forms" for every other potentially hazardous activity more likely to have safety bars than the Laissez-faire attitude of say, the French.

[kinpa]

Well, I would ALWAYS put the bar down if we had one!!! I've been in Montana for 4 years now and I still hate not having one! We've got two chair lifts at the mountain where I teach (both doubles) and the upper one is the kind with the pole in the middle. Boy, was the wierd to get used to! I love being able to rest my feet and now that I've got a 4 year old daughter riding the lift it even makes me more nervous! I always put a vest on her with a handle on the back (www.kid-ski.com) and hold on to her the whole way up. The vest is designed for getting little ones on the lift so they don't have to slow it down, but I don't let go once she's on!

[Gleb]

Yesterdey at my local mountain, the lift came to an emergency brake instantly. (it was doing that all night, defintly pissing everyone off) That was probably the most ive seen a chair sway. I was up there for a good 5 minutes without moving and this gave me a chance to really inspect the lift and how they made it safer.

The seat is angled back so it kind of forces you to lean back. Also, the seat cover is relitivly high frictionl rubber. At least with my pants, it would make it a chore to fall off. I did then notice that most little kids are not able to actually lean back because their legs are too short. I can defintly see how kids can easily fall off. I didn't notice one parent that didn't put the bar down for their kids which is a good thing.

I'm defintly not against the restraining bar, i just find it easier to just put my hand around the back of the chair and relax on the way up. When i get on the lift with reletivly small kids and they don't put it down, i put down because i should be the "responsible adult."

[Dr D]

I think it was Mt Bachelor that had windshields on the quad bars. very cool since thirty miles an hour is usually cold. I think the windshields would encourage use of the bars. I am tall and some tool pulls the bar down without warning :angryfire . common courtesy people announce the lowering of the bar prior to doing so. I have noticed that jibbers often don't put the bars down due to the sideways nature of the board conflicting with the footrests.

[Mike T]

I think it was Mt Bachelor that had windshields on the quad bars. very cool since thirty miles an hour is usually cold. I think the windshields would encourage use of the bars. I am tall and some tool pulls the bar down without warning :angryfire . common courtesy people announce the lowering of the bar prior to doing so. I have noticed that jibbers often don't put the bars down due to the sideways nature of the board conflicting with the footrests.

Nope, no windshields at Bachelor. Although we could really use 'em on a few of the lifts. Sun Peaks, BC has them on a few of the lifts.

[D-Sub]

steamboat had the bubble on the Storm Peak lift when I was living there...

no idea if they do now.

that part was bitchin. really nice to get relief from the wind both for keeping warm, AND for recreational purposes.

[LeeW]

that part was bitchin. really nice to get relief from the wind both for keeping warm, AND for recreational purposes.

hahaha, locals dont call vista bahn "rasta bahn" for no good reason. -smirk-

[D-Sub]

ganjola

[Pow]

what types of chairs have these bubbles? many eastern resorts have started a high speed quad (and even a six) trend... yeah, most of us arent very patient, but anyway do you think the bubbles would still work on the high speed chair system? (high speed chairs i find are almost always closed when its windy, making your trip to the top a bit of a hike)

[bobdea]

dopplemayr detaches

I hope to never see them in the east, its generally a little bit more windy here and this would cause issues

most resorts regret buying the bubbles because they are quite expensive to replace and maintain, since in the east so much money is put into snowmaking there is a smaller profit margin anyway so again I would doubt that you will see them any time soon