grease vs plastic

[John K]

For the engineers out there..... Oil can degrade plastic, does grease degrade plastic?

I use philwood hub grease on the internals of my intec heals and cables.... (they come with some brown grease in there) how is philwood hub grease with plastic? Is there a prefered grease?

Thanks

JK

[Gecko]

For the engineers out there..... Oil can degrade plastic, does grease degrade plastic?

I use philwood hub grease on the internals of my intec heals and cables.... (they come with some brown grease in there) how is philwood hub grease with plastic? Is there a prefered grease?

Thanks

JK

Phil Wood is based on the same grease that is used in boat trailer hubs...so you should be fine. It's not usually the grease that causes problems it's the additives for instance white lithium grease would be BAD, the lithium will actually induce more wear than it prevents...

BTW I'm not an engineer nor do I play one on TV I'm just a part time bicycle mechanic and a full time (soon to be) periscope mechanic

[alexeyga]

Any silicone-based lubricant will do the job, silicone actually keeps plastics alive...

[Guest Randy S.]

Any silicone-based lubricant will do the job, silicone actually keeps plastics alive...

I saw a hot chick today in Burlingame who was apparently trying to keep plastics alive! Long Live Silicone Valley (oh wait, this is silocon valley, silicone valley is supposed to be in So Cal). :lol:

[Daneille]

Is Bomber Butter an acceptable grease for this purpose?

Daneille

[fin]

Daneille,

Actually, Bomber Butter was made just for that reason, to lube up the Intec Heels and receiver. Afterwards, we found it worked great for other applications like the Lugs and fasteners on the TD2 and our Bishop telemark binding.

It is a low temperature, water proof-grease. Perfect for these applications and does not effect the plastic in the Intec heels.

[Jack M]

for instance white lithium grease would be BAD, the lithium will actually induce more wear than it prevents...

Hey wait a minute.... is white lithium grease just bad in general, or just bad for plastics? I've been using it with apparant success on my motorcycle chain, after thorough cleaning with wd-40. I believe when you buy a new chain, it comes packed in white lithium grease. Or so I've heard from multiple sources.

[Red]

Would you lube Burton heels and receivers in the same way?

I tend to get stuck every once in a while......

[fin]

Red,

Unfortunately, I have no idea what type of material they use in the Burton system so I cannot comment on if Bomber Butter is a good idea with their heels.

Maybe someone here has used grease on their Burton heels they can tell us about?

[Derf]

Hey wait a minute.... is white lithium grease just bad in general, or just bad for plastics? I've been using it with apparant success on my motorcycle chain, after thorough cleaning with wd-40. I believe when you buy a new chain, it comes packed in white lithium grease. Or so I've heard from multiple sources.

I don't know about motorcycles chains, but on bicycles, lithium grease is used for parts that don't move. Regular grease is used in bearings and oil on the rest of moving parts. For cleaning, I use the MEC environment friendly degreaser, cheap and effective. New bicycle chains come with some sort of wax on them.

On a side note, I can say loc-tite is bad on plastics. I used some on my first board (on the binding mounting screws) some years ago, and the loc-tite ate thru the plastic, to the point that the screws almost passed thru the discs.

[alexeyga]

Side-note: using WD-40 to clean mechanical parts is a bad idea to begin with. It dries everything to death. It is rather good to dissolve rusty bolts and as a degreaser, but it ends there. There are better lubricant-based penetrating fluids (Randy, don't get any ideas) and, certainly, there are better cleaners out there.

[fin]

Alexeyga has brought up a very important point.

WD-40 is bad, bad, BAD . It is great for REMOVING grease, cleaning, and un-sticking rusty parts. We use it here in the shop to clean the grease and film from the machines. To use as an actual lube on our bindings and Intec heels....DON'T. I had a guy who was just flooding his Bishop telemark binding main springs with WD-40 and he said they squeaked like mad. Basically he had flushed all the low temp grease from the springs and the WD-40 washed away in, oh, the first three turns, so now he had bone dry main springs. Sounded like a coffee can filled with angry mice :p .

[astrokel]

I've also read that after applying the WD-40 and cleaning out the part it leaves a film behind that makes it very difficult for whatever lubricant you apply after to stick/penetrate/remain. It's a good idea to clean the WD-40 off with a high percentage alcohol before applying the working lubricant. Anyone else hear of this?

I guess basically it's a bad idea to use WD-40 except in very specific light load applications.

Fin,

What makes the "Buttah" "bettah" for the heels and other parts beside the cold temp applications or is that the main advantage?

[Slow Eddie]

Would you lube Burton heels and receivers in the same way?

I tend to get stuck every once in a while......

Maybe someone here has used grease on their Burton heels they can tell us about?

I ride Burton's Physics system (the Speed version, with the hooks up front instead of bales). I would strongly recommend NOT using any sort of lubricant on the boot/binding interface, i.e. the posts on the receiver and the rings in the boot heel.

Think about it. Friction is what makes this system work. the rings in the heel are meant to slide down the posts (like when you step in), but not up the posts. Pulling up on the heel without first pulling on the release cable actually causes the rings to grip the posts more tightly (hence the name of the system. Any sort of lubricant would decrease the coefficient of friction of the interface.

Lube would be appropriate at the pivot and spring of the lever/ring portion of the system, and the release cable within its housing (like Intec systems).

Bomber Butter would be an excellent choice for the pivot application; for any other bike mechanics out there, Finish Line/Grip Shift Jonni-Snot grease is formulated specifically not to damage the internals of SRAM twist shifters, which are mostly plastic. Good stuff, at least in above-freezing temps. Don't know how it would work below freezing.

For the cable, a Teflon-based lube that sets up with a "dry" finish (Pedro's Extra-Dry comes to mind) can be dripped down the cable into the housing.

Since the pivot and spring of the Physics system are located within the heel, unbolting the heel from the boot might allow for easier access to the pivot and spring. Using a needle-type applicator for the cable lube would also get more lube on the cable and less on your pants while you're riding.

All that being said, I too have found that the rings sometimes feel "stuck" at the first pull of the release cable, especially after a hard-charging run. I think this is a side-effect of the design of the system - load up the rings hard enough, and they lever against ths postso tightly that you risk breaking the cable trying to pull them free. I have found the best solution is to make sure the receivers are set at the right distance from the toe block (easier to do with Speed Hooks up front; there is a visual indicator to tell you if there is enough forward pressure on the toe piece) - I have found that if the receiver and toe blocks are too close together, getting out will be consistently difficult, and backing the receiver up (or moving the toe bloc forward) by one notch on the baseplate usually solves that problem. I also make sure to "unload" the boot/binding interface as much as possible by rocking back on my heel before I pull on the release cable. I have experienced consistent release and no equipment failures after 4 seasons on 1 set of heels across three different setups. I am no lightweight, coming in at about 220 lbs. Boot shells are 27.5, angles are 60/60 with ~7 degrees of lift fore and aft.

Hope this helps.

[Bordy]

Chain Lube.... Get some Bell-Ray or what ever. I havent broke a chain since a friend talked me out of my Wd-40 clean then Motor Oil lube habit. Before that I was breaking about 2 a year dirt even tring to replace them every few months and about 1 a year on the street, one almost resulting in a triple digit get off with speed wobbles that bruised my forearms with tank slap tring to stop it after the chain locked the wheel over and over then realeased distroying the front sprocket, spindle, and most of the case on the left side and taking peices of the rear sprocket and balancer with it Then distroying the rear plastic as it slaped over and over before breaking off. And even worse forcing me to ride bitch to go and get a truck to bring it home.

Dont get hurt breaking chaind lose the WD-40.. Get some chain lube also!

Billy

[Gecko]

Hey wait a minute.... is white lithium grease just bad in general, or just bad for plastics? I've been using it with apparant success on my motorcycle chain, after thorough cleaning with wd-40. I believe when you buy a new chain, it comes packed in white lithium grease. Or so I've heard from multiple sources.

chain manufacturers pack chains in white litium to improve it's mobility...the lithium is an abrasive. For instance old school bike hubs can improved drasticly in a hundred miles or so of riding by packing the bearings in lithium however repacking them afterwards is wise of the races and balls will start to wear out...White lithium on a motorcycle chain allows the chain and sprokets to create a better mate in fewer miles...once this is done remove the chain and clean thoroughly along with the sprokets...I lube my wifes chain with parafin (my Buell has a belt) though any lube that helps repel dirt will do.

[Mark Brown]

WD-40 is bad, bad, BAD

Thanks for the heads up and the other pointers in this thread...

Sounded like a coffee can filled with angry mice :p .

Too funny LOL

[astrokel]

Been working on motorcycles for 15 years (of course, almost all of them with a shaft drive bike :o ) and working on Bicycles since I was 8 and this is the first time I've heard of the Lithium Grease abrasive qualities... Ain't BomberOL great?!

It's great to hear that it's a good way of seating bearings, very cool. Anyone know if this is what it was developed for?

Gecko,

Do you know if the abrasive qualities of the Lithuim would affect ceramic bearings? It would definitely work on the races but I wonder if it would affect the balls as well and if the differential wearing would be bad.

[Gecko]

Been working on motorcycles for 15 years (of course, almost all of them with a shaft drive bike :o ) and working on Bicycles since I was 8 and this is the first time I've heard of the Lithium Grease abrasive qualities... Ain't BomberOL great?!

It's great to hear that it's a good way of seating bearings, very cool. Anyone know if this is what it was developed for?

Gecko,

Do you know if the abrasive qualities of the Lithuim would affect ceramic bearings? It would definitely work on the races but I wonder if it would affect the balls as well and if the differential wearing would be bad.

I learned about the abrasiveness from an Avaition Ordinanceman (bomb loader) in my first navy squadron about 15years ago...I guess the Navy loved it until they found excessive wear on bearing surfaces. I always repacked old hubs (loose balls) with lithium because it does such a great job removing rust and corrosion but after a short while I'd repack again with Phil Wood or lately Pedros Synthetic. I'll admit that I can find a great deal of happiness working on a bicycle so tearing apart a hub or bottom bracket is a common way for me to spend a sunday morning. I've not had a lot of experience with Ceramic bearings, other than trashing a set of inlineskate bearings, I guess they don't take kindly to impact but they were fast. I would imagine that the ceramic would not like it at all. Lithium also has great anti-seize properties so I continue to keep a jar of it around but I've had the same jar for a decade or so.