Not OT- from the bike cornering thread

[Phil]

O.K., I did not want to highjack the bike cornering thread, so I started a new one.

It seems that there is some disagreement in the other thread as to how to turn a bike.

Let's make it about snowboarding. I would think that everyone would like that a little more anyway.

Your first turn on a snowboard is inherently different from the rest and that first turn seems to be what was discussed on the biking thread, so let's stay with that.

You point your board straight down the fall line. Now you want to make your first turn (I hope that on this forum I do not have to specify that it is a CARVED turn:o ) what is involved? Which muscles and joints are you using. How do you make the turn happen.

If you think this is an easy question, don't answer it (it is not as easy as you think).

I look forward to the discussion.

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

I get my hands out in front of me, flex my knees, and put my weight forward. I tuck my back (right) knee behind my front leg and begin to inclinate the board. As the board begins to grab, I inclinate more by starting to angulate at the hips and knees. Within that, there are a bunch of sublte movements I can't really put words too... I know and can feel them, just can't describe them... This is harder than I thought

[skatha]

Actually, it's a great question and one of the reasons I think a teaching video should be made of people carving with nothing but some stretchy shorts and a tank top on...so you can see the muscles work...Plus, I think a video should be made with women and men because of the inherent differences in muscle mass and carving strategy....

I read that a female skiier uses the sidecut on her skis more for the slalom races-where I read this, maybe here- while a man "manhandles" the skis around the gates....

Learning snowboarding from an instructor who teaches you to hold your arms out and look where you want to go v. driving your quads, ant tibs, and gastroc/soleuses into your board to decamber it when you are actually riding....burn baby burn....

Plus, as your technique improves, the energy you have to expend to ride decreases-like playing guitar. When you first play, you mash the strings like crazy when you are fingering a chord. Once you gain experience, you don't press too hard-it hurts your ability to change chords...

I volunteer to be the female riding in shorts-fly me to NZ and we can start filming tomorrow!!!

[Coldrider]

I think you are getting at the first turn is different because you and your board are going in the exact same direction (on a straight run, as you said). This makes it a bit more challenging to for the cm and base of support to 'swap sides', as they are both going in the same direction.

To make the first turn, get the board to turn first. There are several ways to do this, but the one that results in a carved turn from the start would be to roll the board on its edge using a movement of the ankles and/or knees (which do not require a lateral movement of the cm) and maybe apply a bit of forward pressure. As the sidecut redirects the board, you can then allow your cm to 'fall' across the board into each subsequent turn.

Or thats how I understand it, anyways...

[LeeW]

If I got the author's name, christopher westoff, right, this dude -REALLY- covers it in alpine racing (in terms of muscle uses, etc.) and model happens to be a male. Would someone be kind enuf to correct me his spelling of his name? I know I did not have it correct. It's quite a rare book, too.

[Jack M]

You point your board straight down the fall line. Now you want to make your first turn (I hope that on this forum I do not have to specify that it is a CARVED turn:o ) what is involved? Which muscles and joints are you using. How do you make the turn happen.

I think you'd have to start leaning to one side or the other - but in order to start leaning, say, to your toeside, I think you'd have to first lift up with your toes for an instant to start yourself falling that way.

[mirror70]

I think you'd have to start leaning to one side or the other - but in order to start leaning, say, to your toeside, I think you'd have to first lift up with your toes for an instant to start yourself falling that way.

A snowboard + rider, unlike a fast moving motorcycle, is inherently unstable. You don't need to counter anything to get the board tipped. Think of what you need to do to tip over a stationary motorcycle (usually nothing ;) )

[Neil Gendzwill]

Depends on steepness. If it's not too steep, I'm usually cruising straight so I just roll it over and maybe skid it until it hooks up and good to go. If it's steep, I'm usually stationary or traversing a little on my heel edge and then it's a big unweight to bring it around and start the first turn on the toe edge.

ETA Mirror70, you've got some bad code in your sig. That should be ++postcount;

[Kent]

In order...

1) Balance

2) Pressure

3) Edge

4) Steer

[fin]

I prefer...

1) Suck

2) Squeeze

3) Bang

4) Blow

[BobD]

If you rotate, as most of us do whether we admit to it or not, the first turn is different because you start from a nuetral stance. Between turns our degree of rotation or counter rotation is affected by timing. One of the most important lessons I've learned is from watching the "Extreme Carving" videos is to try for a nuetral stance at the moment of transition. I notice that even the worst counter rotators nail thier first turn on the heelside, but on subsequent turns, the rotation into toeside starts ealier and earlier, until the inevertable fall results.

BobD

[NateW]

Uh, Fin, did you mean to post that to the "guns" thread?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Properly belongs in one of the motorcycle threads (he was describing how a four-stroke motor works - apologies if you knew that already).

[NateW]

Maybe it's a refugee from Aisling's thread.

[Tommy D]

Properly belongs in one of the motorcycle threads (he was describing how a four-stroke motor works - apologies if you knew that already).

Actually, I know how a 4-stroke works, but I definitely missed the reference! THANKS!