Soft Boots - Riding Flat vs Cant/Lift

[RCrobar]

Soft Boots - Riding Flat vs Cant/Lift

Is having the cant/lift options, for soft boot/binding setups, an advantage or an unnecessary option?

For this thread I would like to set two parameters:

1) Riding in ANY kind of powder, from bottomless to tracked out.

2) Riding low angles, ie. 28F & 12R

Some thoughts to get the ball rolling .....

Aren't softboots and bindings flexible enough (freeride or freestyle) that you don't really need cant/lift, you just move your legs/ankles freely?

Isn't part of the idea of soft boot strap bindings to have a certain degree of 'boot roll' in the binding straps; similar to a surfer or skaters ankle movement when riding a flat deck? (Isn't this why step ins did not take off in the soft boot world?)

Why is it that out of the hundreds of soft boot/bindings models available none of them but the Catek Freerides have a cant/lift option? Is it because it is just not needed or because they are too expensive/difficult to build, etc?

For the record I would LOVE to try the Catek Freerides, they seem like they are a softboot freeriders dream. I also haven't ridden soft boots of any kind in a very long time.

Thanks in advance for your biased opinions:)

Rob

[lonerider]

Originally posted by RCrobar

Soft Boots - Riding Flat vs Cant/Lift

Is having the cant/lift options, for soft boot/binding setups, an advantage or an unnecessary option?

For this thread I would like to set two parameters:

1) Riding in ANY kind of powder, from bottomless to tracked out.

2) Riding low angles, ie. 28F & 12R

I will start by saying that you should also search/post this in the Catek forum.

I would say that have cant/lift is definitely an advantage, although for many people not an essential advantage. The lift allows to you get more *umpf* into your toe/heelside carves... so for powder I think it would be unnecessary. Having high lift also slightly detracts if you like riding park (not something most people here do, but still worth mentioning).

Some thoughts to get the ball rolling .....

Aren't softboots and bindings flexible enough (freeride or freestyle) that you don't really need cant/lift, you just move your legs/ankles freely?

The cant is nice because it can compensate for personal body quirks and also allow you to custom adjust you balance and stance and a people find it makes a world of difference. But as you mentioned, with low angles and laterally flexible boots, the differents are subtle and definitely not absolutely necessary for most people.

Isn't part of the idea of soft boot strap bindings to have a certain degree of 'boot roll' in the binding straps; similar to a surfer or skaters ankle movement when riding a flat deck? (Isn't this why step ins did not take off in the soft boot world?)

Why is it that out of the hundreds of soft boot/bindings models available none of them but the Catek Freerides have a cant/lift option? Is it because it is just not needed or because they are too expensive/difficult to build, etc?

While I do think that bindings have lost the 3rd strap to allow a little bit of convenience and lateral freedom to allow for tweaking grabs and what not - I don't think they ever intended it to go to the extent that the bottom of the boot to roll up off the baseplate like when a skater does a drop knee turn. Step-ins are still somewhat popular (you make it sound like they didn't make it in the market) their lack of market domination I think it more likely due to the lack of sufficient boot options for all foot types and the general higher cost of step-ins than due to the lack of laterally flex. FLOWs are definitely contiuing to grow in popularity though.

I think that cant/lift isn't crucial to bindings, difficult to build into a binding (Bomber and Catek both have very innovative ways of doing it) and more expensive to build. Most people don't even have they stance width/angles set properly... cant and lift is beyond all but the most dedicated of stance tweakers (I count virtually everyone on BOL as capable, but also as a small minority overall in terms of the snowboarding populace)

For the record I would LOVE to try the Catek Freerides, they seem like they are a softboot freeriders dream. I also haven't ridden soft boots of any kind in a very long time.

Thanks in advance for your biased opinions:)

Rob

You should search Catek and Freecarve.com forums as there are continual discussions on these topics. I would recommend the Catek Freerides to anyone likes to charge and carve hard on groomers, especially if you weigh over 170 lbs. For untracked powder I think they are completely unnecessary. For tracked powder they do help you power through the tracks a little. For rutted, sloppy snow ontop of hardpack I think they aren't very damp and you will get knocked around quite a bit. For park/pipe they are decent, but a little heavy unless again you are over 170 lbs.

[BlueB]

Last time I rode softies (early this season), it was 35/25 angles, but I use to ride at about 25/15 in my soft boot beginnings. I never felt that I needed lift/cant, but I figured that more forward lean on the rear highback helps a lot. Maybe some heel lift and less highback lean would be more comfortable? Also, I never liked the "loose" feeling or having any foot roll (skier roots :) ), so I basically tried to emulate the hard boots - cranking the straps until my feet would go numb, and releasing a bit for the chair lift... Going to plates was supposed to be real relieve... but, I still find myself overcranking those hard boots!

Note: This all is for resort riding. Never rode the bottomless powder :(

BTW, where in BC are you?

Boris

[Jon Dahl]

the one thing that I always wanted in soft boots was cant/lift on my rear foot. In every boot I rode I always lifted the heel on my rear foot. Rode at 30f/20r at the end(20f/12r at first), varied conditions, occaisional air off rollers and small stuff, no park. Never even considered front foot cant until I started hardboots. I feel that cant/lift on the rear foot would have been benificial to my riding. Have used K2 stepins, Switch stepins, and Airwalk freeride boots in Sims strap bindings.

[RCrobar]

Hey Guys

Thanks for the feedback, some interesting thoughts Lonerider.

Boris, I live North ... way North in PG. I ride in the Pine Pass area at Powder King

www.powderking.com

Rob

[Mike T]

I've got Catek Freerides w/ Salomon straps (bought from lonerider in fact) and I seem to have settled on a flat front front and slight heel lift and inward cant on the back foot. I find it improves comfort more than anything. That and makes strong heelsides a tad easier. I agree, it's signifigantly less crucial in softies than in hard, but comfort is comfort and more me a little rear lift/cant helps.

[sic t 2]

I like heal lift in my softie bindings when riding my Donek Incline at 18/9 angels (I use Ride LX bindings).

Healside is really tough on at low angles without a little lift. So I just went to the hardware store and got a piece of rubber pipe connector (3/8 inch thick), and cut it so that it fills the whole heal area and slightly overlaps the disk (but does not block the base screw) and used contact cement to hold it in place. I like it a lot. Improves response tremendously and allows you do healside inclinations without having to keep your legs so super straight. The dampening effect was really welcome too.

Oh, and definitely grind off all of that stupid toe lift on the LX binding as possible. This combined with the "hardware store" heal lift put you in a much better stance for heal/toe carving at low angles.

sic

[bobdea]

the freeride is something I would never give up once I put decent straps on them

they are great