D-Sub Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Bordy, I gotta agree with kjl. It does sound like youre "attacking" or even demeaning that style. Fine either way I guess but there's really no point. especially since the original post just asked if we can or cant:) you know Im down with you, but I dont see the need for a dissertation on "who was first" Ive seen those vids of Nerva, and in all honesty its pretty clear to me that the TWO guys in the EC vids have refined those moves _way_ beyond what was shown back then, and deserve respect for that. kinda laughed at the slapping thing, but it too was a bit over the top dontcha think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamran Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Thank GOD that great alpine riders are not putting each other's ride/style/technique down. They are competing on WORLD CUP and OLYMPIC level and truly contributing to the sport. True athletes let the skills enjoy a bigger size than the mouth. Recreational riders (like me) and local hill racers, well, that's a bigger and a different crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Proof Bordy, i want proof. I have some of the old purecarve videos and let me tell you it's not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I think Nils comment summed it up quite well "promote EC because its fun, and not physically/technically too hard compare to racing down gates". Which is similar to Bordy is saying that once mastered people tend to move on to learn other aspects of hardbooting. As far as Jean Nerva's comment about equipment not being good enough when he was riding to link laid out turns. Well, Nils I'd be willing to bet you a beer that if I gave J&P (the Swiss ones) an old Burton PJ 7 they could adapt their techniques to it an EC the hell out of it. kjl, maybe I missed it, but I haven't read where anyone was trying to say they are a better rider than P&J (it took me a while to figure out that Nils wasn't talking about Bauer and Nerva, but the Swiss guys) or anything like that. D-sub I agree that arguing over who linked the first laid out turns is really silly. Like you said "Ive seen those vids of Nerva, and in all honesty its pretty clear to me that the TWO guys in the EC vids have refined those moves _way_ beyond what was shown back then, and deserve respect for that." I think the key word is REFINED, I feel it is a natural progression. Bauer and Nerva laid out some amazing turns do you think that no one said hey if one laid out turn is good maybe two is better? Saying you were the first to come up with the idea of linking laid out turns is silly, because there are alot of riders in the world and it is a very logical step. As far as video, I was out riding with my friends. I have about 5 min of video (most from T.V. coverage not from me or my friends) and a dozen or so pics of me riding. This in the 15 plus years I've been snowboarding. Not everyone is that egotistical to have someone film or take pics of themselves, many people would rather be out riding. I'm sure there are many riders out there like this, especially in the area before digital camera and the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfell Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 James Ong said "I have some of the old purecarve videos and let me tell you it's not the same thing." Yeah true not exactly the same thing, but are they "linked laid out turns"???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Philfell, What i said stands, it is not the same thing. They are NOT laid out.Not even close. No disrespect to a cool carving video, but a different thing altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sic t 2 Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm glad Bordy made his ranting, inflammatory post on this topic because it clearly shows that his recent evaluation of the Swoard product (on hardbooter.com) is coming from a hopelessly biased, maybe even angry source. sic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I am not knocking the style I am only stating the fact that Many riders around the globe have strived for the laid out linked turn as a point of their snowboarding careers it is the obvious progression once you learn to lean, lets see how far you can lean this has always been one of the coolest parts of riding once you hit the ground you are done leaning enough said, once you get there you to will decide what to do. But to classify the crew at EC as the first to make it happen is just unfair to the ripping riders around the globe that had already made it happen on gear that was not EC specific. It was just some great turning.s I have always given he cats at Swoard and EC props for there love of the sport and movement forward. And believe in a earlier post I referred to P&J as hot riders, they have for sure made the EC what it is currently but and I was a little surprised to hear Nils refer that they had developed the laid out linked turn I think the first guy that tried to bring it to the masses may have been the pure carve guys pre internet with the ride the edge video and look at the date on the video; Boon Lennon totally made it happen using all types of plastic sliding devices to gradually increase the riders lean angle until the rider was left holding a small gliding device in each hand allowing the rider to make some amazing carved turns with full extension while dramatically reducing the friction and still maintain great speed and control, he even had some on ski poles that allowed me to put some none shaped 215 SG skis all the way to the boot while laying on the snow…. The laid out turn is just one turn. But when you place any piece of gear under your foot and strive for the turn it can happen. The gear the guys at EC ride suit there style and purpose but do not be confused, two guys who have been practicing the same turn for 12 years in a remote location on the gear that they get to design for their preferred type of turn should be good at it by now. But Nils stateing that the style is so hard to master that they are the only two capable of performing it may be a bit unrealistic. There are plenty of riders who can make it happen I think that is important to know. If you want the sport to grow you should know riders have been killing it for decades, not just recently, you as a new alpine rider are stepping into a sport of diversity and should be stoked to have the options available. But not sold into any particular style, You don’t need a Swoard to EC. You may have more Fun on one of Bruces race sticks or his wide carving stick and you only get to drag your nipples once in a while, what ever. Don’t let the guys at Swoard or EC tell you, you can only lay out turns their way using there style. Read what they preach then check out what Jack says here, go out and take a lesson and listen to what those guys say. Then go ride and practice and discover your own way to make it happen I know I had a great time when I first learned the laid out carve I even spent the afternoon watching video of a much younger me and friends learning how to snowboard over the last umpteen years its a progression with lots of fun turns alone the way why make only one? This is a small little forum in the true world of snow boarding and Phil points out a wonderful point about the lack of film footage. Not only that but the lack of any real hardboot info. How many people here have scene footage of Klug free riding on his race board? Who knows what Jasey looks like out side the race course? Every see Rob Berney get mad and make a snowboard bend in ways it just should not? How about Jeff Greenwood playing on any snow made toy. Any Ideas? Have you scene it? Show up to any race and you could, heck tell me you are coming and I’ll even show ya around! Think about the coolest turns you have ever wanted to see, some pro out there makes them every day. If the race tour had a following in the US you would understand why the Herminator says Bode Miller skis like a snowboarder he talking about a WC racer not a great free rider there is a huge difference. It hurts me deep down inside when posters say things like. Well if there where better riders out there I would have seen it by now on the internet. These are they growing pains our sport needs to progress through! There is so much more out there beyond the laid out turn. Or the BOL forum. (sorry Fin). There are riders that do every thing you have ever wanted to do on a snowboard I never said I was one of them only that I am lucky enough to ride with them and have been for a long time I hope some of every one of them rubs off on me, and perhaps I try a little to hard to share some of that with you here. There is a huge world out there that needs to know what it is like to be Alpine Dedicated. I’m just trying to spread the word you don’t have to accept or like it just be aware that I am trying! p.s.sic t 2 I rode the board last year and really did not enjoy it but that reveiw was not recent it was ayear old I have since ridden the board 2 more time in 2 different flexes and still did not like it although it is wide (Helps with the laid out linked turn) it still has many weaknesses that other boards in the same price range did not. I am not angry. with the folks at Swoard I just wish there snow board rode better under my feet may be it would ride great under yours? Have you tried it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Bravo to all the brave souls venturing into this mudpit. At least it's discussion that the folks curious about what this discipine is all about can sink their teeth into and decide what direction they might want to persue. My major point was intended to be that there be some kind of discussion and not just an out and out dismissal of anything that might not be in the cannon of "proper" technique (if the point was lost in my rant please excuse me :o ). Looks like we're back as a discussion forum and not some kind of judgement board! It's Great Reading! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopetool Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I agree Bordy. long but awesome words. Chris Karol taught us to "not pat the dog", and I'm sticking to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dragon fly jones Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Bill et al, Good discussion, great topic and fun sometime acrimonious comments. I can remember seeing Mike Olson way back in the early GNU days riding a race room and laying all kinds of out. I can remember Hiengartner and Dog Coghlin doing the same, I can remember seeing Damian Sanders doing it then throwing the nasty tweaks along with the Pappas brothers Dave Dowd and many more. So what's the point here? It's that somewhere right now someone on this marble called earth someone is having this same thought, some Japenese dude is remembering some snowboard ninja body smearing and laying it all out and riding away happy to the nines. We've all tried it, done it and crashed it. Remember we're all in this together, EC, Swiss style, French style, Cross M style, PJ style, it's all snowboarding and we all love it no matter what. So why don't we all just have a favorite thing and not worry about what the next guy is ranting or riding about. It's is fun to read but, it is becoming tiresome. Billy, I am with you Phil you too, EC guys I have appreciation for you also. So now let's all go ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by slopetool I agree Bordy. long but awesome words. Chris Karol taught us to "not pat the dog", and I'm sticking to it. ayup. we should have a contest to see who can get the lowest without touching! THAT would be crazy! I still dig watchin Patrice and Jaques rippin those turns, but until I see vid of someone lookin as good as them Im gonna have to stick with the "they can do it, no one else can" attitude. they look good. there's no arguing that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateW Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 A wise man never argues with a fool in public, because the audience can't tell the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 where did bordy and Joel say they were leavin? I missed that part, but I doubt its gonna happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I remember seeing this "Boon" sliding device in a ski magazine. Seemed to me at the time that this looked like a crutch for people who hadn't learned to ride properly. Can you imagine the sh_t you'd get if you showed up on the hill with sliders on your hands?:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 "A wise man never argues with a fool in public" Except on internet forums. Bomber is no different. Great quote BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Vu Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 There is a misconception about EC. EC is not full laid carving at each and every single turns as shown on the Opuses. Instead, it is first and foremost based on sound techniques which can be resumed as followed: 1) Upper body rotation 2) Flexion/extension from the legs 3) Flexion when changing the edge I have witnessed P&J carving skills in Zinal (no hero snow BTW but rather hardpack East Coast snow) two weeks ago and do they lay down at each and every single turn beside the steep runs? Absolutely not. They slide, do normal carves or EC relative to the terrain. This is what I observed HERE last year after following Patrice for a day in Aspen. VIDEO So far I have seen video of people riding with - facing the nose technique - high inclination/angulation with rotation (which was the technique I used before EC) - EC (in this case P&J) EC was the video that inspired me the most and I also found out (the hard way) that it is also the most challenging riding technique to reach the fluidity and grace of P&J. Frankly, i don't care about the US vs. Europe thing because if tomorrow, there were two Kenyans ripping it up on the Kilimanjaro better than P&J on whatever equipment, I will dump the Swiss boyz and follow those new guys. But until then, I have yet to see a better video that inspires me more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrokel Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Peter! whew... Finally... thanks for the clarification! :) PS Mrdogboy: I did a lot of track time on my 888 when I lived in Hawaii a few years ago (the track was a half hour ride from donwtown Honolulu!) There are ALOT of people (men AND women) who ride on this forum and there have been quite a few threads about the connections between carving bike and boards (usually pops up in the off season :) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 To sum up this thread: (dude #1) Doesn't this look cool? (dude #2) That's cool i wish i could do that ( pissed off wanna be/racer dude) You guys are children, we did this easy stuff in the nineties and have moved on to more adult pursuits ( Euro guy) Yeah? put up or shut up (dude #1) Doesn't this look cool? (dude #2) that's cool i wish i could do that ( pissed off wanna be/racer dude) I'm outta here , you guys obviously don't have the sense of history to appreciate carving. leaving still without any past/present/future proof of linking laid out turns> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrdogboy Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 James Ong: the defination of mental illness is "to repeat the same action and expect a different result.." So there you go.. dude Is this cool ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywalker Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Nobody can do, it's physically impossible. Don't ever believe anybody telling you anything else ;) http://koti.mbnet.fi/cmachine/mig/index.php?currDir=./EC2005&pageType=imageℑ=100_0086.JPG&startFrom=1 count: two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 mrdogboy, Actually i am getting the exact response i wanted ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Not sure who ya are, but I quess it must be cool to call me a pissed off wanna be/ racer dude. perhaps you should curb your jump on the band wagon action and find out who I am. Your out look is pretty uncool, What major steps have you made towards hardbooting that gives you the O-kay to sideline comment? I would reconsider your comments after only a few post on this forum. I 'm pretty sure I mention videos coming maybe you should keep an eye on my web site Hardbooter.com I would in the future like a bit more respect I'm tring to make the sport grow and have a very big background to base my pissed of ranting. You are bringing what type of input to this thread for what reasons again? Billy hardbooter.com alpine dedicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Originally posted by James Ong To sum up this thread:[snip] ( pissed off wanna be/racer dude) Nice summary except that Billy isn't a wannabe, he's an actual real-life racer. See here for his FIS results summary. If you want to see him do a laid-out turn, look here. There's a ton of other pictures in the hardbooter.com gallery of him ripping hard, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Ong Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Bordy, You get what you deserve because of your i have done it/seen it/ know it all ( 10 years ago) attitude. Posting that video would sure shut me up though :D And i'll buy you a beer to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.