Powder: a nuisance when it's crowded?

[SWriverstone]

Holly and I experienced our first (shallow) powder riding at Okemo Saturday morning when we got first tracks in maybe 5-6" on top of the packed stuff underneath. It was amazingly cool, and what blew us away most was the almost total silence---we're far too accustomed to that loud scraping sound. :)

A couple hours later, though, we were cursing the stuff. The mobs had hit the trails, and in the continuing snow the powder was getting kicked into micro-moguls everywhere. Suddenly, we rookies were having a helluva time trying to ride out all the waves and bumps.

I figured it was good practice, since it forced me to get lower and use my knees more to absorb the bumps...but it wasn't long before my legs were toast, and our last run down a chopped-up, piled-up blue slope was almost torture.

Were we being wussies? Should we have been able to lay down big carves at high speeds on that surface just like fresh corduroy? Or do you experienced folks find it tough when the powder gets all kicked into piles?

Just curious,

Scott

[Guest Todd Stewart]

when the runs get chewed up i usually head for the trees, depending on the hill, you can usually find powder a couple of days after a snowfall.

[skategoat]

Scott:

You're not alone. Chewed up fresh snow is difficult to ride, especially on a race-shaped board. I have my worst crashes in those conditions. Sometimes I try to tough it out but lately, I find it much easier to get the freeride board. I still ride it on plates and hardboots but I find the bigger nose and wider width to be much easier to ride in choppy conditions.

Henry

[Chubz]

Scott and Holly

Wussies you're not. Jesse and I were there Sat morning as well and the first few runs were utter bliss, face hurt from grinning. The next few were fun, because we could still do some power turns thru the small piles on the south face, but by the 7th run the mini moguls began to form and the ice reared it's ugly head in between. Considering it was the weekend and the size of the mtn. doesnt afford finding hidden stashes, at least on our carvers. Jesse and I hit the trees on the south face, but there simply wasnt enough new pow to engulf the existing moguls in the trees. with all of those factors, you got the most of Okemo that you could expect that day. some locals may beg to differ, but that is the advantage of being a local. If we got that storm on Wednesday night, it would have been a longer period of getting "freshies".

Also consider we all rode hard Thursday and Friday and I think you guys were there on Wednesday as well. The thighs can only take so much. I know Jesse and I threw the towel in around lunch time and drove home.

Look forward to your next big pow day and hope it's on a weekday at a larger mountain that you have had a couple days to explore. I have had days, where I got fresh tracks for at least 5 hours. I dont know what you are riding, but my Donek Axis 182- all Mountain was an absolute gem in the pow. It's width and length gave me nice float. Choice of board can also be a factor in your pow experience. I know if I was on my Volant 172 GS, the moring wouldnt have been as nice as it was.

Hope the trip home didnt take too long and you arrived safely. until Next year take. In addition, if you can make it to Seven Springs in Champion, PA (outside of Pittsburgh) before season's end, you wont regret it. They have nice open bowls on the backside of the mountain that resemble being out west. I hope to get there myself.

Take Care

Greg (Bright Yellow JAcket, black pants)

[350]

The powder bumps i find fun for a while but get sick of them after about half a day

You guys didnt miss anything Sunday. the same thing powder in the morning and bumps after 3 runs. today i got first tracks and rode the bumps till 11:30 and went home

i would rather ride a nice groomer trail instead.:D

nick

[Bobby Buggs]

Forget about carving when the "push piles" start to show up. Time to forget everything about edging and freeride that board.

Thats right, you need to skid the tail and leave the carving for another day. i have a blast riding like that along the sides of the trails just sticking the tail of my board out to the side to scrub speed. try it next time. I call it chasing my board down the hill.;)

I would have stayed for some of that but I figured I got 2 days of riding on my tweeked back so I took it and ran.

Chubz, dont forget to get with me about some EVIL stuff and getting your buddy that raw footage for some Power edits.

[Miguel]

I was there Saturday and Sunday. I brought three boards and thank God one of was my Donek Incline. I rode it both days with hard boots in the walk mode. It really pays to have a board like that when it gets sloppy. I had a lot of fun but frankly it was a lot of work. I use days like that to explore more challenging runs that I wouldn't normally take the carving board. Double Diamond and Outrage were a hoot. My runs down them were not pretty by any means but I did get down them. I took a peak at Super Nova but decided discretion was the better part of valor and kept on cruising. By Sunday noon my thighs were fried and I was whimpering for my Mommy. I did finally hook up with a few of the guys at the bar and managed to get my car stuck at the Black River Brew Pub.....but thats another story! I swear it had nothing to do with Long Trail Ales! Sorry we missed you guys that left before the weekend. Kudos to Had for putting this together and either make up a sign next time or at least keep wearing orange!

Miguel

[Derf]

I had one of those days this winter, and I too was on my freecarve board. It was really hard, but I managed to get through it by shifting my weight to the back and sliding the tail, but a freecarve board is not optimal. And my legs were burned after 4 hours of riding

And since I don't want to ride softboots anymore, I was wondering what do you guys recommend for chopped up conditions like those. Two of you guys said freeride board with plates and boots in walk mode. I have yet to try this with my old freestyle board (to know he feeling). The other options are wide freecarve boards and all mountain board. What is your take on this?

For the freeride board with plates, what kind of technique do you use for turning? What are the width of the freeride boards you ride with plates and what the angles?

Thanks.

[Guest jeremiah]

Another thing to consider is that the snow was wet and heavy, which makes it much more likely to turn into moguls. Had it been light, dry snow it would have still been skied off pretty early, but the resulting push-piles would have been easy to go through.

The big dump in Vermont in early February was incredible because the snow was so light. Even at the end of the day I was able to carve on my way to the trees, no mogul-bashing required.

On the bright side, a good heavy dump like that probably ensures that we're going to have good riding in Vermont until the Forest Service leases expire in mid-April.

Jeremiah

[skategoat]

Derf:

I ride a Volkl Spline 164 with TD1s. I think the waist width is in the 22cm range. I'm told it is very similar to a Donek Incline in sidecut and stiffness. My angles are 45/40. Size 27.5 boots. I really enjoy riding this board when the snow is sloppy or really soft. The radius is probably in the 9m range so if I carve it aggressively, I get really quick slalom turns. Lots of fun.

In spring snow, I ride aggressively, driving the nose into the turn. In fresh snow with lots of push piles, I sit back a bit and use a surf style. I don't worry too much about making clean carves although I will dive into a carve if I see that the snow is relatively smooth in front of me.

I think just about any long all-mountain/freeride board can be ridden effectively with hard boots. Give it a try this spring.

Henry

[Fleaman]

I kinda like the piles, if they arent too big, you can still carve them by getting as low as possible on the board, you will cut right through them. But other wise, I put my front boot in powder mode and leave the back one unlocked or in powder. I find you need to use more weighting and unweighting in the bumps and piles or your board wont pivot around your front foot as easily.

[Miguel]

In the bumps etc. I ride a 164 Incline which I believe is ideal for riding bumps and other less than carvable terrain. I classify it as a Bordercross type board which translates to being very forgiving in rough terrain but still being able to lay down some serious carves and accept plates/hardboots. I can't remember the waist width but it's around 23-24 cm which allows me to run 35/30 angles. Regarding technique, I find myself using a lot of weighting and unweighting sometimes actually hopping. I also use the sides of the bumps themselves to initiate the turns so looking ahead and planning your route is critical. I also use a lot of body rotation similar to the "Swiss" style of riding. I've been considering buying some Flow bindings and soft boots just for days like that or for specifically riding bump runs. I believe the soft boots and bindings give you a much better feel for the snow because your boot rests directly on the board. I aso have wondered if riding zero degree angles might make it easier for riding bumps. Any opinions about that?

[astrokel]

Great thread!

I was at Okemo on Saurday and got picked out of the lift line by Bricky and rode with the posse for a few runs, but the guys I was riding with were a few notches above my abilities so I had to bail! But it was great to see guys in HB's riding carving boards whip through the mounds of powder and the bumps with the speed and control that they had. It was a learning experience and something to shoot for...

Gotta agree that the midday crowds and the bumps were a bummer where even the greens were tough with the bumps. Anyway the one lesson I took from this weekend is there's a way of riding just about anything. Now if I could see someone on hard moguls on a carving board that would be something to see! Although that seems to me something like doing a 360 spin over a 30' tabletop. Something to be left to the experts :) ...

One thing that I did that was really great was the last run down World Cup at about 3:40. It was like backcountry with no one else on the hill and the snow had piled up a few inches with all the bumps kinda smoothed out by a combination of the wind and new snow. I was on my incline and 224's and it was better than thought possible. I thought that powder was supposed to be ridden in softboots but the control and smoothness that you could achieve with the HB's was beyond my expectations. Keep soft in the knees and keep pressure on the shins and just soul "carve" down the powder on the sides of the trail (actually it's more like soul swishing but anyway...). Another good thing is it sure is good exercise!:)

[kipstar]

I only have alpine gear, no soft boots, so I guess you can make yourself get used to things if you have to.

Not having ridden for a few years until this year, I did find prez weekend at Mammoth friggin hard work; about a foot of fresh soggie snow and a million and one people chewing up every run.

Even with the ice showing through, it can be ridden reasonably well on a carving board with a few changes to technique (no doubt changing binding position and so on helps, but most people are lazy). I found the following helped a bit

- you need to ride in a lower more dynamic position, and not trying the extreme carving leaning out type turns; weight much more centred over the board

- you need to hold a bit more speed and not turn out of the fall line quite so far as you would on a groomer

- adjust the nuetral body position to be a little further back, and this includes not driving forward too far into the start of turns

- keeping knees bent, and upper body quiet; let the lower body suck up the bumps and stuff with your upper body still nice and straight and no straight legs (especially heel side)

- hold a little more speed than normal

I don't have a walk mode, and I don't adjust boots anyway; I ride them the same way the whole time pretty much. Not as much fun on crowded stupid Mammoth sierra cement but it still works fine. You will burn up your thighs much faster though, unless you ride in this sort of stuff quite a lot, because it uses different muscles and stuff.

That's my opinion anyway..... not much chance of powder around here!

Kip

[garyj]

Prior 4x4---the end all to all your carving woes.