is the east coast really that bad?

[D-Sub]

so...started looking at ski areas in Maine and Vermont and some of those places look REALLY fun on paper (sunday river, stowe, okemo, stratton...)

is it really "always icy" at these places? A year like this one is rare? you bastards stole all of our snow!

a lot of rippers come from the east, but they usually move west!

PLEASE no east vs west stuff...not lookin to start an argument. Ive just never been anywhere east of the rockies and am considering it

[Dave Pushee]

No, it not ALWAYS icy. In fact, today was a total blast at Loon Mountain in NH. :D

However, most of the Eastern areas need to employ snowmaking in order to have a decent length season and that tends to form a harder surface than natural snow.

It's not all that unusual in January to have a rain storm followed by a deep freeze. Even excellent grooming work is still going to make for some pretty firm conditions.

Some of the Eastern mountains do a better job of snowmaking and grooming than other areas. Jay Peak IVT) and Cannon (NH) tend to not do as much in the way of grooming and snowmaking. However, when they get snow, they can both be awesome. Jay does get a lot of snow, and when there is snow, the glades are great. However, some of the regular trails tend to be icy and windblown - even just after a dump of snow.

So, if you don't have any snow where you are, come visit and see for yourself.

[Tommy D]

Three out of my top five favorite ski areas are in the east, if that's any indication of how fun they are! :)

This year started out really slow, with a lot of rain, but it turned out to be a fantastic year for fabulous snow.

Yes, we did steal all your snow. I did a snow dance early in the year, and now you are screwed. :D

Is it always icy? No, but most ski areas get 'scratchy' by mid-afternoon, some by mid-morning, so I recommend getting there early and riding hard until about 2 or so. (A stop or two for water/food.) This is usually only a problem December - February/early March.

Sometimes, it can be very icy, so you'd best have sharp edges. One year, I had to re-sharpen my edges every other day on the hill, until springtime.

There are a LOT of fantastic ski areas in New England, so if you are interested, I STRONGLY recommend checking them out. Here are my suggestions:

• Sugarbush
  
• Gore
  
• Jay Peak
  

Not much of a party scene at those areas, but they rock for skiing/carving.

[skategoat]

I actually prefer Eastern hard pack for carving. It's consistent without any surprises that can grab your nose or edge and throw you over the bars. You just have to make sure your edges are sharp.

Today, we had a powder day. It was pounding snow for 2-3 hours. I had to put the Coiler away and bring out the free-ride board (with plates). It was a blast. I think there will be good riding until April. What a year!

[wavechaser]

...NO ice in the woods! When the woods are ready for ripping of course - and PLENTY of backcountry. Not as windy as Cannon or Jay, not nearly as crowded as Okemo/Killington/Stratton. Great terrain and I can't remember the last time I had a bad day here, if ever. Of course, it's not A-Basin or the Back Bowls, but it's my belief you will become a better overall rider here (in the east), able to handle any conditions anywhere. I spent a winter on Mt. Hood and although there were some great powder days, there was more rain than I usually see here. Of course, our friends at Mad River Glen are still SNOWBOARD RACISTS!

My new bumper sticker:

MAD RIVER GLEN - I'd Ride it if They Let Me!

(they have a popular sticker that says "MRG - Ski it if you can")

[Guest Randy S.]

SubD,

Don't let them fool you. I grew up in NH and have skied most of the areas in NH, VT and ME. There is some great skiing there sometimes. Its nothing compared to what we have out west. I'll take Tahoe, CO, UT, WY or even OR over the best east coast location any winter (well, OR would suck this year). We don't even know what ice is out here. What we call ice, they call "hardpack" or "scratchy". What they call ice is something that has been groomed with a Zamboni.

[D-Sub]

that last one is hilarious. you really do work for them, dont you?

Randy...I hear ya...its obvious that conditions are consistenly better in the west but the point that riding east coast conditions can make you a better rider seems to be pretty valid.

[Chubz]

D-sub

This is just my opinion, but the EC ice is created by many things and most of it is "scrapers" that conveniently rid the slope of its cover. Of course many others variables contribute to it, but overall I would say it allows us to become better overall riders. If veryone was making carves instead of scraping, the conditions would be much better. After seeing the overall talent of the group at Carvers Gone Wild at Okemothis week, I would say we are holding our own. Hell even going from PA to VT madeit easier to ride. \

Overall, variable conditions make you better.

Later

Greg

[skategoat]

D-Sub:

I wouldn't generalize like that. West is not necessarily better conditions. This year is a good example. Don't you wish you had more snowmaking out there?

What the West has over the East is skiable terrain. There is typically less skiers per acre. This means you can find untracked stuff late in the day. In the East, there is no alpine (above tree line) and very little off-piste. So it gets busy and scraped down like Chubz says.

The other complaint about the East is the cold. It gets damn near unrideable when temps are down around -20.

Henry

[D-Sub]

I still think its more often good out here. PNW is suffering horribly right now but Central CA is having a record year, and colorado doesnt seem to be doing poorly.

MT isnt hot at all, but UT is?

weird year

anyway...good point about less room for more skiers. makes lots of sense

[kiwanoron]

I grew up In PA - I learned to ride in the East (it will make you a GOOD rider)...I have traveled all over the USA - I have ridden in WA, CA, OR, ID, MT, WY, UT, AZ, NM and CO in the WEST. For the East Coast, PA , NY, WV, NH, and VT... I also lived in Wy for 5 years(any rode 80 + days each winter I lived there. Now I am in Snowless Fl with a broken ankle!...I Would Carve the WEST over the East Almost any day...What they call Ice on the east coast is like the Ice in a skating rink(shiny and hard) What they call Ice in the WEST is GREAT FOR CARVING!!!! Don't Get Me Wrong there are plenty of good carving days in the EAST!

[Gecko]

I've not boarded the PNW but I've been in WY, CO, ID, UT, MT, NY, VT, NH, ME, MA, R.I. CA (north and south) and lately Japan. Japan is most like the east coast in trail design but most like CO in snow quality though there is a lot more man made here (that I hace seen). East coast will make you a better rider by neccessity the snow is just harder...there is a thing on the east coast called "boiler plate" it's like trying to carve marble with a butter knife...lessons learned on hard snow translate quite well to nice soft condition the opposite is rarely true.

[Fleaman]

One thing I find is the eastern area's snow quality is more consistent. Out here in BC it changes daily from soft to nice to crap within days or sometimes hours. I just got back from 2 days at Apex and it sucked royally. It has been warm up there for about 2 weeks and it is finally cooling down and the slopes are covered in boilerplate. Some don't even have a skiff of snow to work with. It sure makes you balanced, but nearly impossible to set and edge.(NO carving this weekend). Even when it warmed up and the sun was on it, it stayed hard because the wind was cooling it off. The groomers dont even dent it. They left huge death cookies and growser tracks all over the place. Definitely the worst riding I have ever experienced

[kinpa]

I think one thing you really have to consider in the east coast / west coast thing is the number of people on the hill and the amount of room to make turns. I grew up skiing at Roundtop and I seem to remember 30-40 minutes waiting in a liftline on a weekend were not uncommon. My family always went on Christmas day and Superbowl Sunday to try to avoid the crowds. As people complained about the long liftlines, the ski areas had the answer by putting in more quads and high speed quads. So, what does that do? It just put more people on the slopes at one time. I've seen many comments on here about near collisions and I would think the number of people on the hill can have some influence on that. I rode Hunter Mountain a few times and I liked it, but I had been warned to never go there on a weekend or holiday.

At my home mountain here in Montana, a ten minute lift line is considered long. And we only have two chairlifts.... both doubles! I'm sure there are places in the west that have longer lines espcially during holiday periods, but just the size of the mountains seem to help dissapate the crowds!

Something to be said about having room to make a turn!!! :)

[jtslalom]

D-sub,

The best carvers I've seen or ridden with come from the east. If you can ride the east, you can ride anywhere. Ice and hardpack make for great carving. I'd rather carve hardpack than any other snow conditions but to answer your question, no the east coast isn't that bad. It's narrower, more crowded and harder conditions than the west but its not bad.

[SWriverstone]

In my limited experience, the resort's orientation and grooming capabilities have a lot to do with snow conditions. I've probably ridden Whitetail 50+ times this season, and conditions were all over the place---every bit as inconsistent and unpredictable as anywhere else. Whitetail's slopes face east/southeast.

RoundTop, on the other hand, seems to have consistently better conditions. Apparently their chief groomer has been there forever and knows his stuff. RoundTop also faces north, which I think makes a big difference as well.

I would think given a choice, no resort would want to face any direction but north (at least in a warm place like the mid-Atlantic)...but I guess lots of resorts didn't have a choice---they took whatever land they could find!

Scott

[gdboytyler]

Originally posted by jtslalom

The best carvers I've seen or ridden with come from the east. If you can ride the east, you can ride anywhere.

I think this thread is definitely becoming East vs West.

The best riders (not just carving) I've met were all from the West. The best riders that I've personally seen were the locals at Mammoth and Jackson Hole.

Of course, the East Coast riders I've met were tourists, just like me, so I wouldn't expect to meet the best the east coast had to offer unless there was some sort of contest or convention.

I'm sure an East Coast carver that gets the same amount of snow days as me would be better on icy conditions. But then, I would be better than that same East Coast carver on a deep powder day on a double black diamond run.

I'll take powder days and hero snow over hardpack/ice skills anyday. I do this stuff for fun. Does anyone really consider riding ice/boiler plate fun?

To get the thread really argumentive, the guys that were at the SES should post which group of riders were better, the East or West contingent.

To be more scientific, does someone have the demographics of the US ski/snowboard team members? What’s the split between East and West?

I would guess that the maniacs in the snowboard videos or Warren Miller films that were jumping cliffs and outrunning avalanches got their skills from riding resorts in the West.

[FTA2R]

The west coasters should have more stamina b/c of higher altitudes and their seasons are certainly longer, so I would think most of them get many more days in. If they came to the east, they may have the stamina to go all day but may not be used to some of our conditions, and vice versa but as an east coaster, I find it easier in general to ride out West. Of course the West is more desirable to ride, though.

one thing is for sure, some of the real big GS boards the west coast guys use- with huge SCRs, wouldn't be usable (not safely,anyhow) at the smaller resorts here.

East coasters are probalby used to pain more.

---

Barry

[D-Sub]

yeah..guys..uh...not lookin for an argument here. so far the comments have been informative, but I couldnt care less who's better.

Ive seen plenty of **** talking from east coast guys, claiming that WC "cant ride" and are "pussies" because we ride soft conditions all the time.

OK. Tom Burt is a pussy:)

anyway...I think my question has been answered for the most part

[Phil]

"Does anyone really consider riding ice/boiler plate fun?"

We don't get a lot of that, but I like hard conditions. Powder is too slow. Whenever I go out west, I still look forward to coming back and going fast. Not that you can't go fast in the west - some days are better than others. I just am not that turned on by deep powder (is that sacrilegious for a snowboarder to say?).

gdboytyler - I did not think that this thread had an east vs. west vibe until your post. The idea that if you can ride our stuff then you can ride anything is mostly true. Powdery steeps are easy - icy steeps are not. When we say that if you can ride here you can ride anywhere, that does not mean that we can all ride well here. Come and see. There are plenty of right coasters that are not good at riding the right coast.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Phil

Powdery steeps are easy - icy steeps are not.

It's powdery flats that suck! You need some tilt or you get bogged down. Do the east coast people have trouble adjusting to the steepness of the western resorts? I think (I have no proof) that what is called steep in the west vs the east has the same relation to what is called icy in east vs west.

[Phil]

"It's powdery flats that suck!"

Can anyone say Snowbird?

"You need some tilt or you get bogged down. Do the east coast people have trouble adjusting to the steepness of the western resorts? I think (I have no proof) that what is called steep in the west vs the east has the same relation to what is called icy in east vs west."

When we do have steeps, they tend to be shorter (for the most part)

Maybe someone else could chime in who knows better, but in the west, steeper stuff doesn't seem to "ride" as steep. It looks worse because it is so much longer though. In the east, the steeps don't seem as long, but they seem sketchier (is that a word?).

We also don't tend to have vertical drop ins. That is what rocks out west - cornices and vertical drop ins. Vertical is definitely steeper :D

[D-Sub]

snowbird, flat?

[Phil]

No, actually Snowbird has great steeps, I have just gotten stuck there on the flats on several occasions. Being an out of towner, I did not know the areas to avoid in powder. I paid the price several times.

[D-Sub]

oh..gotcha...man..that is the WORST. Happened to me a few times at Brighton, too.

gets kinda scary!