UPZ Boot Cuff Cant Options/Instruction

[Kmf]

Hi,

I’ve search all over (Carvers Almanac too) for directions on how changing the boot cant angles affects comfort and performance. I’ve had my boots for years and never really messed with them. 

I changed my cant for more height as lonbordin showed, it helped. 

I’m  wondering if I can change (and how) the cuff cant, for more comfort. Any tips?

I use Ibex speed bindings, flat with no canting. I also supinate, if that makes a difference.

Thanks

[daveo]

FWIW, when I adjusted the cant to give more height the the point of flexion seemed to also raise and felt weird and actually gave me a bit of heel lift. Just for me, that is, many others find it fine. 

I read here on the Mountain Slope site that canting on the binding is best, not the boot... Not sure if that'd applicable to every application, though. 

[jburk]

Beckmann has separate sections for angling the boot cuffs vs canting the bindings

http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration

FWIW, I interpreted these as angling the boot cuffs is all about the relationship between the knees and ankles (bow-legged, etc) so that the cuff is aligned to the shin, while canting the bindings is about the relationship between ankles and hip joint, each adjustment addresses separate issues.

[SunSurfer]

The video presentation addresses both boot cuff canting and binding canting (&lift). 

[daveo]

@SunSurfer did you make this video? This is amazing. Thanks so much for this. Are you planning on making any more biomechnics style videos/presentations in the future? 

But one thing... Why do you keep saying luft? Jokes. Hi from Australia

[Grip]

Regarding canting... in your case, SunSurfer, if your angles were steeper than 60, you would cant outwards, or less than 60 you would cant inwards?

[SunSurfer]

6 hours ago, Grip said:

Regarding canting... in your case, SunSurfer, if your angles were steeper than 60, you would cant outwards, or less than 60 you would cant inwards?

Absolutely correct. Transitioning slowly towards the skwal (outwards) or across the board (inwards) positions where I need about 5 degrees. Absolute amount guided by experimentation and comfort. The TD cant disc design makes experimentation easy. The geometry presentation makes sense of the otherwise bewildering array of options.

Working through another example.

If my zero cant distance was 25cm, and my preferred stance distance was 44cm, then 44/25 = 1.76

Looking at the graph with the secant curve, secant (55 degrees) = 1.74. So the zero cant binding angle would now be approx 55 degrees. Binding angles lower than that would benefit from inward cant, higher angles outward cant.

8 hours ago, daveo said:

@SunSurfer did you make this video?

I confess, it was me. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by SunSurfer
Add example at different stance distance ratio

[Kmf]

Great video sunsurfer! Thanks.

Does anyone have more info on on UPZ specifically?  ie: are both sides at the same dash mark, symmetrical? Can inside be at the third mark, outside at 1st? I’m trying to figure this out without spending too many hours on it. Wish the boots came with some instructions.

My bindings are at 60/48 with a 19.5” stance and I’m trying to get in the ballpark for tomorrow. Feels like I need some inward cant. Working today, don’t have too much time for adjusting. Any ideas?

Thanks, once again

 

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Kmf

[daveo]

Hmm. That's A LOT of splay. Considered testing out something with like 3-7degrees of splay? Some say 5degrees is a good place to start..

I have 5, but I naturally walk a bit duck foot genetically and 5 feels good to me. 

[Kmf]

@daveo,

 

Correction, more like 55/48. 

For the canting, do I do one side (inner) at 5, other (outer) at 1,2,3,4 or 5? I’m trying to visualize, while at work. 

Ps. Thanks for the help on the liners. Palau rocks, received in 6 days.. $100 less than other brands.

45 minutes ago, daveo said:

That's A LOT of splay

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Kmf

[daveo]

1 hour ago, Kmf said:

Thanks for the help on the liners. Palau rocks, received in 6 days.. $100 less than other brands.

 

Nice! Which liners did you end up with?

I pull mine out each night, remove the footbed and dry them thoroughly. Mine are on 100 days and are perf. I reckon the whole drying thing has helped longevity.

[Kmf]

Got the alpine soft, hard wasn’t in stock for my size. The Dual fit looked like the seam would run right along my foot problem area. Did the molding myself, super comfy and no noticeable difference than intuition.

So, how about adjusting my boot canting? I know you’ve got some golden nuggets of info

[daveo]

You prefer softer boots though right? Alpine soft is the best one anyway. The only difference between Palau and Intuition is that Palau are better (coming from someone who's never tried Intuition here lol..) 

Sorry I'm out about canting. I've never used boot cant.

 

[jburk]

Inner and outer at the same mark is neutral, no cuff angling. You can also raise and lower the cuff by setting each side to 1/1, 5/5, etc. 

One notch difference gives a noticeable bit of cant, you’d have to be severely bow-legged or knock-kneed to go 3 or more different from side to side. 

Beckmann’s section on angling the boot cuffs has you taking the liners out, standing in the empty boots, and noticing if the cuff is closer to either the medial or lateral side of your leg. If you leg looks centered in the cuff, no canting needed. 

I’d recommend trying a single mark difference as the first adjustment if needed, it doesn’t take much. 

Once you get the side to side difference (1 notch, 2 notches, etc), you can also experiment with raising the angled cuff up and down to better match the profile of your lower leg. I only need 1 notch difference to get the angling I need, but my calves end really high up my legs (skinny lower leg), so I raised up the cuff so that the boot rides as far up my leg as possible to bring the top of the cuff up to the bottom of my calf. So my adjustments are something like 4/5; 1 notch difference, but with the cuff raised up. If you have cankles you may need to lower the cuff below the centered position. 

This is also not something that you want to just set and go ride without trying the boots on. Don’t rush this, if you don’t have time and are rushed to get out the door and on the hill, just leave everything centered at 3/3 and go ride. It takes a few iterations to get this right, and getting it wrong feels very wrong. 

[Kmf]

Thanks, will take your advice. I’ll try it tonight, if nothing is obvious it’ll stay at 3/3.

[Beckmann AG]

On 1/6/2019 at 8:30 AM, Kmf said:

I’ve search all over (Carvers Almanac too) for directions on how changing the boot cant angles affects comfort and performance. I’ve had my boots for years and never really messed with them. 

What issue (actual or perceived)  are you trying to resolve?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Beckmann AG

[Kmf]

I had snowpro’s with no binding cant, seemed ok but I couldn’t really bend too well. Pressure on medial side of back calf made it harder to get low. Got Ibex with the rear cant plate, more comfortable for my legs, easier to bend.

I'm not sure if I really like the rear cant and would like to switch back to flat, no binding can’t. Just trying to figure out if I can make it more comfortable.

Thank you.

[Beckmann AG]

Inward rear binding cant (and lift) will certainly make a static stance feel more comfortable, especially if the splay and/or stance width is excessive.

However, it will generally inhibit board performance in actual use. 

As to the cuff canting, for the time being set for comfort while walking/standing with feet parallel, ride a bunch, and post your observations as to how you and your board perform over the next few outings.