Brand new to hard booting, can’t keep my heel side intact

[Adamsurfer]

Howdy,

im brand new to hard booting, though I’ve been snowboarding for maybe 15 years though off and on. I  grew up a surfer and had been living in Hawaii for the  5 years until moving to Vermont to be closer to my wife’s family. I’ve always been in to watching carve style snowboarding and finally decided to facilitate that as it’s the part of riding that interests me the most now. I’m the stay at home dad right now so budget was a major concern, I ended up getting a late 90’s/early 00’s nitro blazer off of eBay with some oxygen bindings for 150$. I believe it’s a 163 though it says 65 on it. No clue what the other dimensions are. I’ll attach a picture. I got some old ski boots from my mother in-laws basement that my feet barely fit without socks on but work in the bindings. I watched what videos  I could find on YouTube and gave it my best a few weeks ago. Needles to say I am fuckin stoked! It’s pretty much exactly what I have been looking for and I think its really gonna make these east coast icy days a lot of fun. I’m really just starting to dip my toes in the water and I know I have a lot to learn but my biggest issue I seem to be facing right now is my heel side. Every once in a while I can lock into a decent turn but more often than not my tail seems to wash out about half way through.  Ive been working on getting really low but I’m not sure about weight distribution or upper body position. Toe side seems to be coming a long nicely but I suspect that is typical. Also I’m 6’ and 200lbs so i don’t know if that is an issue combined with my board though I suspect not. Anyway, any advice would be appreciated and if anyone is around mt snow mid weeks and wants to ride I’d be more than happy to tag along and take some notes. 

I’m also throwing in a toeside shot from my first day, Ive moved up a little from then but you get a picture of my limited ability at least

Edited January 20, 2018 by Adamsurfer

[Adamsurfer]

[billyt.]

Hey Adam welcome "on board"!  Check this site for lots of info.  Surf style carving is fun when there is some fresh soft snow, but to really carve on the hard stuff you have to change to getting low with some proper technique to get your board high on edge to let it do it's thing. There are some good articles here called riding the norm.  I will be up at Mt Snow in a week.  I am 6,3" 250 before breakfast.  

[RobertAlexander]

Have seen what you are describing on many new to hardboots but lots of years on softboots.   You probably have a good toe side on hardboots because you have the years on softboots and have developed your muscle control needed for a good toeside carve.  With a toeside carve , you just ride out out using your muscles and the g force is a bit less than on a good heelside, so you make it happen.

 Guessing that you are  initiating your heelside well,  but around 1/2 way thru the carve, right when the power g force kicks in , you are bailing out and going back to a butter/slide carve.      Find yourself a nice open area with just the right pitch/slope, make sure no one is behind you,   get going a comfortable speed, and hit a heel carve solid with the full intention of riding the carve out and go backup the hill, and then do so. Look behind you to make sure it is clear, no one there, before doing this.    You need to pick the board up as high as possible, and keep it there for the entire carve, try using downward pressure on your rear boot /knee/leg, to pick the board up to 90 deg , it will hold,  and ride it out,  also look back up the hill as you do this.  Put your outward arm on your inner/front  knee, push a little if you want to.  Your body will be very low to the ground as you ride it out, and your speed will decrease to zero, and you end up just lying there on the slope.  Keep trying this, at different speeds.   Once you get it right the first time , you will have an Ahaa moment,  and the rest will be history.   Once you get this heel side correctly, then try linking this heel carve with a toe carve.   good luck,  remember to make sure it is clear behind you.

[Adamsurfer]

2 hours ago, billyt. said:

Hey Adam welcome "on board"!  Check this site for lots of info.  Surf style carving is fun when there is some fresh soft snow, but to really carve on the hard stuff you have to change to getting low with some proper technique to get your board high on edge to let it do it's thing. There are some good articles here called riding the norm.  I will be up at Mt Snow in a week.  I am 6,3" 250 before breakfast.  

Thanks for the reply! Yeah I’m definitely gonna do some scouting of the forum for info thanks for the recommendation. If it works schedule wise then I’d be stoked to share some runs next week. 

[Adamsurfer]

1 hour ago, RobertAlexander said:

Have seen what you are describing on many new to hardboots but lots of years on softboots.   You probably have a good toe side on hardboots because you have the years on softboots and have developed your muscle control needed for a good toeside carve.  With a toeside carve , you just ride out out using your muscles and the g force is a bit less than on a good heelside, so you make it happen.

 Guessing that you are  initiating your heelside well,  but around 1/2 way thru the carve, right when the power g force kicks in , you are bailing out and going back to a butter/slide carve.      Find yourself a nice open area with just the right pitch/slope, make sure no one is behind you,   get going a comfortable speed, and hit a heel carve solid with the full intention of riding the carve out and go backup the hill, and then do so. Look behind you to make sure it is clear, no one there, before doing this.    You need to pick the board up as high as possible, and keep it there for the entire carve, try using downward pressure on your rear boot /knee/leg, to pick the board up to 90 deg , it will hold,  and ride it out,  also look back up the hill as you do this.  Put your outward arm on your inner/front  knee, push a little if you want to.  Your body will be very low to the ground as you ride it out, and your speed will decrease to zero, and you end up just lying there on the slope.  Keep trying this, at different speeds.   Once you get it right the first time , you will have an Ahaa moment,  and the rest will be history.   Once you get this heel side correctly, then try linking this heel carve with a toe carve.   good luck,  remember to make sure it is clear behind you.

Thank you for the advice! I had a sense that I may need to get more on the back foot, but I’ve been having a hard time putting it to practice. Seems when I go into a hard heelside turn, barring the few times it comes together, usually one of three things seems to happen. 1) I come in hot, feel like I’m getting good edge bite and i get low but then i just skip out and turtle around on my back?. 2) I try to focus on leaning back but end up rotating my shoulders and hips parallel to the board and slide. 3) i get really low and the board seems to bite but the radius gets tighter and tighter till im forced right over my front knee and then i end up going fakie. Funny that sometimes i seem to nail one after ive nailed a good toeside carve. All I know for sure is that it really frustrates me to waste a good toeside carve with a halfass sideslip on my heel,  but i enjoy trying to figure it out.

[RobertAlexander]

try some slow speed carves,  get the hang of the balance points on slow speed, then slowly increase your speeds for the carves and see what happens,   imo , you may be able to see what you are doing better, both correctly and incorrectly  in doing the slow speed carve first. 

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

On Heelsides, go in at a slower pace; LIFT your LEAD shoulder, Lift your TOES UP while in the turn!,try to stay Ahead of the Board by putting your trailing arm near where you can Reach (as in a Grab) your front shin/knee, and let the front arm/shoulder Lift (and 'Look past')your front shoulder, such that your ARM isn't in your vision at all, but AHEAD of You. Let your hip turn, forwards a bit. That, that timing, it's up to you, but I do this 'sooner-than-later', where AASI-taught folk won't even.. They SKID, I Carve. Whatever.. [30 yrs. later, I'm still explaining this?; Crap!] But, importantly, turn 'at the knees' INTO your turn! If you hold them, bent, but Without Any Aim, you'll 'Skid', the Best Riders 'roll' the Knees, bent, Towards the turn's center. How much, is up to You, but, it Works, regardless! AASI are Dorks on Lunchtrays! I'm Out..

 

 

 

[Keenan]

16 minutes ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said:

That, that timing, it's up to you, but I do this 'sooner-than-later', where AASI-taught folk won't even.. They SKID, I Carve. Whatever.. [30 yrs. later, I'm still explaining this?; Crap!] But, importantly, turn 'at the knees' INTO your turn! If you hold them, bent, but Without Any Aim, you'll 'Skid', the Best Riders 'roll' the Knees, bent, Towards the turn's center. How much, is up to You, but, it Works, regardless! AASI are Dorks on Lunchtrays! I'm Out..

 

Good advice, and even though this isn't the AASI thread, way to weave it back in that they suck.

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

47 minutes ago, Keenan said:

Good advice, and even though this isn't the AASI thread, way to weave it back in that they suck.

WHY EVEN BOTHER? They 'know' they're "Right", and they FALL OVER following Me.  Ow.  Oh well.

 

[Adamsurfer]

1 hour ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said:

On Heelsides, go in at a slower pace; LIFT your LEAD shoulder, Lift your TOES UP while in the turn!,try to stay Ahead of the Board by putting your trailing arm near where you can Reach (as in a Grab) your front shin/knee, and let the front arm/shoulder Lift (and 'Look past')your front shoulder, such that your ARM isn't in your vision at all, but AHEAD of You. Let your hip turn, forwards a bit. That, that timing, it's up to you, but I do this 'sooner-than-later', where AASI-taught folk won't even.. They SKID, I Carve. Whatever.. [30 yrs. later, I'm still explaining this?; Crap!] But, importantly, turn 'at the knees' INTO your turn! If you hold them, bent, but Without Any Aim, you'll 'Skid', the Best Riders 'roll' the Knees, bent, Towards the turn's center. How much, is up to You, but, it Works, regardless! AASI are Dorks on Lunchtrays! I'm Out..

 

 

 

Man, that really helps actually, understanding how the shoulders and arms affect the turn, and I’m definitely not pulling my toes up. There is so much more to technique in hard booting, at least it  seems that way since im new to it. Half the battle i feel like is just unlearning my muscle memory from soft booting.

thanks again!

[AcousticBoarder]

Having just asked about some technique pointers myself, I was given the advice of taking your outside arm in the turn (so for goofy toeside your right and heels idea your left) and reach it not just to your knee or shin, but even try to reach to/ past your board, over your front binding. Mind you, this should be done with your shoulders (and hips) poonted between your binding angle and the nose of the board, and by bending at your hips, not your waist. Not sure why, but this to me is a little clearer and easier to remember to execute, but the same premise as others have described here. This helps to get your upper body in the right position: staying away from or perpendicular to the snow, not reaching towards or parallel to it. This in turn will help your balance  and should help to lock in your carve better.

As others have mentioned, try it slow, and do several in a row coming to a stop where you are sitting on the snow facing up hill before moving on to linking. If you rush it too much you will end up building bad muscle memory and end up having to relearn. (I know this from experience ) 

[carvedog]

Sounds to me like you are twisting your shoulders around too much. 

 

Your toeside looks leaned over. Try reaching for the snow with the other hand. Beware all kinds of quick turns can happen. 

[ursle]

Let's make this really simple (KISS)

 

Only think about pressuring both ankles on both front and rear turns, get as much pressure as you can from your ankles pushing your boots.

After lots of thinking about your ankles...on the front edge, think about pushing your hips to the snow, if you've ever windsurfed, you push your hips toward the mast when you lean back with the wind at your back, I know, opposite sides of the turn, but...try it on your front edge, don't reach for the snow.

On the rear edge, as mentioned, take the hand opposite of that (rear) edge and put it in front of you....on the opposite knee, or keeping the hands in a gunslinger type position, move it forward, if you lose the rear edge, drop your butt more, and move the hand forward.

Look at jacks avatar, rear edge, butt dropped, great carved turn, hard snow.

[digger jr]

3 hours ago, ursle said:

Let's make this really simple (KISS)

 

Only think about pressuring both ankles on both front and rear turns, get as much pressure as you can from your ankles pushing your boots.

 

?

[Adamsurfer]

On 1/21/2018 at 5:02 AM, AcousticBoarder said:

Having just asked about some technique pointers myself, I was given the advice of taking your outside arm in the turn (so for goofy toeside your right and heels idea your left) and reach it not just to your knee or shin, but even try to reach to/ past your board, over your front binding. Mind you, this should be done with your shoulders (and hips) poonted between your binding angle and the nose of the board, and by bending at your hips, not your waist. Not sure why, but this to me is a little clearer and easier to remember to execute, but the same premise as others have described here. This helps to get your upper body in the right position: staying away from or perpendicular to the snow, not reaching towards or parallel to it. This in turn will help your balance  and should help to lock in your carve better.

As others have mentioned, try it slow, and do several in a row coming to a stop where you are sitting on the snow facing up hill before moving on to linking. If you rush it too much you will end up building bad muscle memory and end up having to relearn. (I know this from experience ) 

 

On 1/21/2018 at 11:49 AM, carvedog said:

Sounds to me like you are twisting your shoulders around too much. 

 

Your toeside looks leaned over. Try reaching for the snow with the other hand. Beware all kinds of quick turns can happen. 

 

On 1/21/2018 at 12:39 PM, ursle said:

Let's make this really simple (KISS)

 

Only think about pressuring both ankles on both front and rear turns, get as much pressure as you can from your ankles pushing your boots.

After lots of thinking about your ankles...on the front edge, think about pushing your hips to the snow, if you've ever windsurfed, you push your hips toward the mast when you lean back with the wind at your back, I know, opposite sides of the turn, but...try it on your front edge, don't reach for the snow.

On the rear edge, as mentioned, take the hand opposite of that (rear) edge and put it in front of you....on the opposite knee, or keeping the hands in a gunslinger type position, move it forward, if you lose the rear edge, drop your butt more, and move the hand forward.

Look at jacks avatar, rear edge, butt dropped, great carved turn, hard snow.

Man, thank you guys for your replies! Lots of great stuff to unpack here, to bad it’s gonna rain for the next couple days?really looking forward to trying a few things out. I’ll be giving all of it a go but it definitely seems like simply putting my hands in the right spot is gonna do some good. Hopefully i can get on the mountain by the end of the week!