Softboot Duck-Foot Heelside EC Help? lol.

[Technick]

WOW! 

 

[Technick]

Who said it couldn't be done!?  (me... duh!) Well my friend, you show that with enough willpower and Gorilla Tape, anything can be accomplish!!

[lonbordin]

Video of Ryan's progress- 

 

 

[JRAZZ]

So if I read this correctly then:

Skill in EC == Amount of tape on jacket!

 

 

Now where did I I put that roll....

[michael.a]

I'm rubbing my eyes, but is Ryan still using a duck stance in those videos? Cant make it out on my phone.

[Technick]

Before attempting this, do a couple of these!

 

 

[softbootsurfer]

Both hands help maybe...you are so good on your stick in both directions and are so aware of the Edges and what they can do...I assume you simply practiced with your existing set up and figured it out, and had someone else do the camera ...

Edited March 28, 2017 by softbootsurfer

[Technick]

I found your lost twin !!  

 

 

 

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

On 3/28/2017 at 6:58 AM, michael.a said:

I'm rubbing my eyes, but is Ryan still using a duck stance in those videos? Cant make it out on my phone.

Yup, he Is! 

[nils]

Petr style is also fluid, no duck stance thu...but I guess if he got to try he could do it..

One of the main issue of the softbooters is that they often ride boards with too small radii, making the arc too tight for proper EC. Even the Dual has a too narrow radius for perfect EC.

Nils

 

 

[QReuCk]

Wow. Congrats Ryan on these progresses!

I will be of absolutely no help, but would like to mention I am really interested in any comments or tips that might help to lay down heelside carves with duck stances.

I already know about the heelside bootout problem, cause I have had it scrutinized specifically and confirmed by my wife during one of my last sessions. I also already know about the importance of keeping in check the back knee position (specific to duck stance, especially sensible with torsionnally playfull boards) that isn't mentionned explicitely yet in any softboot carving video. I am just not yet able to do any better than either a sitted down carve like the ones in the few mounths old vids of Ryan or an extended-body-high-inclination turn but still quite far from the snow (only with my slightly wider board - can't do that with the one having the heelcup boot-out problem). I recently tried with more spoiler canting, and that seemed to help, but that was on a session with my daughter who is just starting to ride average slopes, so I didn't really had an occasion to really try hard. Still working on it, and excited about the learning curve despite my age.

Anyway if some other duck stancers visit this forum, let me just say this: working on this might not guarantee instant success, but it will definitely improve your heelside carving faster than just accepting the generally accepted pseudo-truth that real carving requires positive back foot angle. As a side note: thanks Ryan for helping me realize progresses still can be done in that department.

 

Edit: Nils comment about the sidecut radius is right. My board with 10m radius is hands down my easiest carving board. Anyway she has 2 problems for me:

- 252mm waist width gives boot-out even with 270mm boots.

- it is a 10mm pintail/20mm setback board with a flex patern designed to provide stability and no pop. My favourite riding style when I'm not splitboarding or riding natural terrain is a (really) dumbed down version of what Ryan does and that board simply doesn't do it for me in the flatland tricks department. The Swoard Dual 163 is a bit better for that (surprising, he? Someone might someday choose a swoard for its flatland habilities, who would have known), but I have not yet made the move to purchase one, and honnestly would probably search more for something else with a bit more pop, a tad more width, and in a shorter size with maybe bigger tips (In my experience the effective edge length isn't that critical a parameter providing the sidecut and flex are right).

 

2nd edit after more carefull reading of what has been said previously (shame on me, I should know carefull reading is a prerequisite for answering): Ryan, the only suggestion I could make to you is to try a slight compromise in the binding setup: Maybe your board is torsionnally stiff enough to not notice, but on mines, I think I tend to loose the edge earlier under the back foot when using -12 or more angles. Still I do a lot of buttering stuff and ride switch very often. My compromise is +18 -9. I've found out the the back knee position is a lot less of a problem with -9 than with -15. Sure my heelside switch carving suffer from the +18, but I can assure you my buttering doesn't. Anyway that's just me and maybe it's even just in my head so I can't be sure it even really applies to me. Your call entirely, that was just an humble suggestion.

Edited April 4, 2017 by QReuCk

[Rob Stevens]

Your comment about rotation helping the cause doesn't seem to be borne out in the videos. 

 Turning your torso that far forward looks like it's pressuring the front half enough to make the back half want to follow a difference line. Chatter is the result.

 What strikes me as important is the position needed to come up off the floor. Notice how you have to rotate back to square with your stance before you can build enough pressure to stand? 

 If you stay more aligned throughout, you get to use that even pressure along the full running length to keep the tail following the nose. You also won't have to come back to neutral to stand, as you're already there.

 It's working for me.

 

 

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

On 3/31/2017 at 11:34 AM, nils said:

One of the main issue of the softbooters is that they often ride boards with too small radii, making the arc too tight for proper EC. Even the Dual has a too narrow radius for perfect EC.

Here, I disagree, again. A tight radius board can do great laid-over carves,  BUT, the rider needs to be quick enough to change-up, and re-direct. Stiffness, though, with the boards themselves is another issue altogether. Few boards out today, in a decent softboot width, can actually hold on when tasked with carving up past 70* to the snow. There, a board like my old (post '03, to '07) Reto Rad-Airs would do nicely, provided you don't get boot drag.

Speaking of such, I noted that those red,white, and blue Burton bindings in the video, did Not have the highbacks rotated at the hinge to a better position of having the mid-aimed hinge pushed forwards, and the tail-aimed hinge point pushed back towards the board's edge. Also, the rear forward lean was set very low. Truly not how I would do things. But, as I've said, everyone is built, and moves, a tad differently...

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Eric Brammer aka PSR

[terekhov]

1 hour ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said:

Speaking of such, I noted that those red,white, and blue Burton bindings in the video, did Not have the highbacks rotated at the hinge to a better position of having the mid-aimed hinge pushed forwards

 

it is burton freestyle model from late 90ies. flimsy as hell per se.

[nils]

Eric,

You are right: it is not impossible to do laid out turns on smaller radii (ECers can turn a frontside in a 3m radius on an EC board ), but the problem is that everything goes much quicker the tighter the radius is( same applies to hardboot SL short boards) and as we see on the softboot vids, they are not snap turns full power turns because the boards are not meant to resist the high nose/tail pressure like SL boards...

So basically softbooters have to deal with slower turns, mid size radius, on boards that have no power grip at tips and that explains the difficulty..especially duck stance!