rjnakata Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 I've been thinking for some time about back country split boarding. Maybe you can help me with this: My approaches will start at or below the snow line hiking maybe 1-2 mi on dirt/muddy trail and then in narrow brushy trails until breaking out into skinning territory (I'm thinking East Side Sierra - Whitney area). Q: How well do hard boots walk on trail? Which boots "walk" better? Do you carry them while wearing regular boots on the trail sections and then carry your regular boots while skinning? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) a mile or 2 on trail would be doable in modern AT boot with good cuff range of motion & well fit liner, but will take it's toll on the sole an toe area on the boot, I'd bring light trail shoes and swap at snow line, your feet and skiboots will thank you. ps heard great things about atomic backlands being super light and easy to walk. Edited January 12, 2017 by b0ardski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) I would never walk any appreciable distance in regular hardboots like Deeluxe or Upz but they're a poor choice for split use in general. Edited January 13, 2017 by Neil Gendzwill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted January 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 2 hours ago, b0ardski said: a mile or 2 on trail would be doable in modern AT boot with good cuff range of motion & well fit liner, but will take it's toll on the sole an toe area on the boot, I'd bring light trail shoes and swap at snow line, your feet and skiboots will thank you. ps heard great things about atomic backlands being super light and easy to walk. I suppose I could walk a few miles in an AT boot, but hey, I would have just spent $500+ on a boot only to trash it on the trail... Bringing another pair of shoes/boots sounds good, but then stowing them in backback for 75% of the way and making a mid approach footwear change in the snow sounds funny also... Maybe caching them somewhere?? How about mountaineering boots? That sounds like not much support tho. That's why I ask, the best thing sounds like bringing and humping an extra pair of shoes (along with all the other [winter] overnight gear etc!) Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) ` 9 hours ago, rjnakata said: I've been thinking for some time about back country split boarding. Maybe you can help me with this: My approaches will start at or below the snow line hiking maybe 1-2 mi on dirt/muddy trail and then in narrow brushy trails until breaking out into skinning territory (I'm thinking East Side Sierra - Whitney area). Q: How well do hard boots walk on trail? Which boots "walk" better? Do you carry them while wearing regular boots on the trail sections and then carry your regular boots while skinning? Thanks! A modified TLT6 is the standard boot for splitboarding. There are some other lightweight, softer, two buckle boots that will also work. If you want to branch out, research the mods that people are doing and get a boot that will let you do those mods. This type of boot walks very well on trail and scrambles quite well on rocks. I have done long approaches in them (4 miles), but typically use approach shoes for anything much over a mile. Whether or not you use approach shoes will be personal choice. Somewhere between a mile and two miles of dry trail seems to be where many people make the switch to approach shoes. I use a minimalist approach shoe, the Evolv Cruzer. It packs small and is very light. It might be too minimalist for a lot of people, but you want to use the lightest, most packable approach shoe that works for you. Occasionally I will stash my shoes and use a GPS waypoint to find them, but a lot of the time I carry them with me because I am not positive I will be coming back to that spot. If you use approach shoes, always take an extra pair of socks. After a tour, your socks and boot liners will be soaked. A dry pair of socks so nice when you switch back to your approach shoes! The Eastern Sierra is hard on AT boot soles when used for mountaineering rather than just ski touring. Even without long approaches, my boots get pretty beat up after two years. I do get quite a few days though and walk a lot on high wind blown rocky / scree ridges. Mountaineering boots with softboot bindings used to be more common, but most of those riders have gone to softboots or modified AT boots. Edited January 13, 2017 by Buell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 A very, very long shot might be Dachstien Extrem boots. They had a dual-hinge at the ankle, were kinda mid-entry, but with a wonderful full-wrap laced liner, and were DIN, but with a Vibram shanked sole. I had a pair 22 years ago, but loaned them to an Instructor on my staff, (who then got dismissed). Really nice boot, very adaptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) my solution (BTW this week I bananahammocked with +15-15 in that same bindings-boots): think about that as noboarding with board attached :) but this solution - not on hammock sure :) - gives pretty sufficient control even in hardpacked freeride situations.. but when you need to optimize for backcountry - I'll optimize for walking & uphill, not for downhill lowa civetta mountaineering outer boots, intuition power wrap liners (molded years ago into long gone raichle325, and used in lowas without re-baking!), fin's race carbon - UBER-light bindings, seems like 2-3 times lighter than f2 race ti, and very low profile which is goood. support - comparable to softer softboot+softbinders setup Edited January 13, 2017 by terekhov typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted January 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said: A very, very long shot might be Dachstien Extrem boots. They had a dual-hinge at the ankle, were kinda mid-entry, but with a wonderful full-wrap laced liner, and were DIN, but with a Vibram shanked sole. I had a pair 22 years ago, but loaned them to an Instructor on my staff, (who then got dismissed). Really nice boot, very adaptable. Ok, I seem to remember something like that from way back...but I'm not even finding an image in google... edit: Did Damien Sanders ride the Dachstein Extreme?? Is it something like the "Raichle snowboarder"? I used to wonder about these boots-they looked so cool! Edited January 13, 2017 by rjnakata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted January 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 30 minutes ago, terekhov said: - gives pretty sufficient control even in hardpacked freeride situations.. but when you need to optimize for backcountry - I'll optimize for walking & uphill, not for downhil I tend to think that optimizing for backcountry/walking makes a lot of sense...I really cant see hiking much in hard boots OR carrying them on the outside of my backpack filled with a night or two's worth of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 No, Damian/Zellers/Burt/Nicholson/Tahoe Crew used the Koflach, very similar to the Raichle's you show, but the Koflach's were a bit softer overall, and did not have 'drink+drive' flip-lever on the back of the cuff. But, they did have a third ratchet, and an open, short tongue in the shell that fit under the cuff; open the ratchet, and adjust the forward lean, or walking flex. while you could also fit stiff or soft tongues up front. The Dachstein Extrem was altogether different, it looked like a rear-entry boot (which, it sort-of was?), but it had an articulated cuff with a wrap-behind buckle, an instep buckle, and a toe-area cable and inner wrap via a lever. The liner was a work of art, utterly seemless, laced up the outer from the heel to the calf and opening. Your shin just rested in uniform cushioning. The two-hinges, along the instep were awesome, as one hinge allowed forward flex, the other hinge rearward flex at the back-plate of the boot. Articulation was controlled by a drink+drive lever with 3 positions; Locked (full on ski mode); Forward soft flex(riding mode); and full flex (Walking/touring mode). Mine were dark green, grey, and a purplish-maroon, with black soles, and were from '92. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) have a pair of those 25 yr old Raichles (same as their 80s era AT skiboot but with slotted cuff hinges for lateral flex), they work ok as a hard boot but the range of motion on the cuff is inadequate for hiking and base sole length is longer than modern ATs with twice the weight of new boots; better to get a used pair of TLT5 or 6 (or new backlands which have moldable shell and liner) and put in your own or new molded liner. Edited January 13, 2017 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted January 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 7 hours ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said: The Dachstein Extrem was altogether different, it looked like a rear-entry boot (which, it sort-of was?), but it had an articulated cuff with a wrap-behind buckle, an instep buckle, and a toe-area cable and inner wrap via a lever. The liner was a work of art, utterly seemless, laced up the outer from the heel to the calf and opening. Your shin just rested in uniform cushioning. The two-hinges, along the instep were awesome, as one hinge allowed forward flex, the other hinge rearward flex at the back-plate of the boot. Articulation was controlled by a drink+drive lever with 3 positions; Locked (full on ski mode); Forward soft flex(riding mode); and full flex (Walking/touring mode). Mine were dark green, grey, and a purplish-maroon, with black soles, and were from '92. Something like this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted January 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 2 hours ago, b0ardski said: better to get a used pair of TLT5 or 6 (or new backlands which have moldable shell and liner) and put in your own or new molded liner. I'll look into the TLT's. They sound like the way everyone's gone...Is the fit the same as any of the Deeluxe/UPZ boots? As an alternative I'll look into the mountaineering boot route depending on the type of approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 I wore 24m Deeluxe (several years ago when they came with the thin black liner), I wear 25m UPZ, and am currently wearing 25.5m TLTs although I do fit into 25m TLTs depending on the liner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted January 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 17 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said: I would never walk any appreciable distance in regular hardboots like Deeluxe or Upz but they're a poor choice for split use in general. I can hardly walk from the parking lot in either of those!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terekhov Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 On 1/13/2017 at 1:56 PM, rjnakata said: Is it something like the "Raichle snowboarder"? I used to wonder about these boots-they looked so cool! I own that snowboarder boots, bought virtually new & cheap for backcountry... too high & stiff to freeride comfortably in (stiffer than head stratos pro! i need not SUCH stiffness in backcountry), never mind to rock scramble a pitch or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted February 16, 2017 Report Share Posted February 16, 2017 Go the AT way..TLT's are ok for long walks if you open them enough. AT boots with vibram like soles will be 200% better than any hardboot made for snowboarding in the walk mode anyway...and the weight is ok too! ( btw I have seen the new arcteryx, seems well done for AT but also very narrow and fragile..am not sure it is as strong as the TLT in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 I use La Sportiva Sideral a slightly modified in the forward lean system (I've drilled the back plates widening the hole); fantastic! I've never used the TLT but a lot of friends ride with them. I use approaches skis (115 cm) with skins and Dynafit bindings (just the front binding) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neanderthal Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 H2O Please post pics of your mods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2O Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Ok but during next week end as my boots are in my mountain house. I haven't now the photos but the mods is like this http://splitboard.com/talk/topic/la-sportiva-sideral-owners-is-this-how-you-filed-down-the-forward-lean-slot/ Edited February 22, 2017 by H2O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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