Naivete' Anyone running Hardboots on split boards?

[Buell]

More boot mods:

Here are the current Phantom Bindings boot mods on a pair of demo boots that John sent me to try.  I am pretty sure he has taken it further than most and is working on a kit to make these mods easy for the rest of us. 

Power strap is removed.

The original arch buckle is moved over the ankle like in RoroSnow's post above.  On this boot, when the buckle was moved, the cuff pivot was replaced using the B and D cuff pivot replacement kit.

The opening in the walk/ride plate is expanded upwards to increase the forward motion of the boot.  I expand mine several millimeters higher and into the top T-nut hole (the top T-nut does not seem to be necessary) than John has done on this boot.

While the upper cuff is removed, some material on the lower cuff above the pivots is removed and the plastic is slit to increase lateral / medial flex.  Holes are drilled at the bottom of the slits to keep them from expanding.

Holes are drilled in the upper cuff to dampen the boot when riding in mixed conditions.  John swears snow getting into the boot is not an issue.

 

One mod I have seen (and tried) that John has not done on this boot is to lower the height of the upper cuff by removing the plastic that held the powerstrap and cutting some of the medial side plastic away at the top of the cuff.  This mod is designed to provide more medial flex.  For me, the shorter upper cuff caused pressure points on the insides of my shins and I prefer the full height upper cuff.  For Rebecca, it relieved pressure points on the back of her calf.  Everyone is different I guess.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Buell

[nils]

thnx Buell very interesting!

Questions:

- is the buckle axis point mod possible without a modification kit ( using the original parts of the boots?): Can i just unscrew, set connector further back and that is it?.

- not sure how drilling holes will modify dampening...it will lighten the boot by small margins but dampening?

- can u compare the slits mod with a non slitted boot and explain if it does really modify lateral flex.. not sure am ready to cut slits before knowing it works!

Thnx :)

Nils

 

[Buell]

I am out of town right now and cannot look at my boots.  

 

If the buckle just screws in, it seems like you could just move it. John did lengthen the cable so it would be long enough in the new location. If you put it on the cuff pivot I expect the B and D cuff pivot replacement kit would make it easier, but I don't expect it is needed. 

 

I think the holes were a test to increase medial/lateral flex but, in John's opinion it's main improvement was to dampen the ride in firm conditions.  I cannot say either way as I have not had a worthy test of these boots.   

 

I am also not able to compare the lower cuff mods yet. Carpet testing shows a smoother range of motion overall on John's boots compared to my boots which only have the walk/ride bar modified. In good conditions, my boots ride exceptionally well but in mixed conditions, they could ride better. I am hopeful that the carpet test results will translate to on snow results. 

[Corey]

As someone that frequently deals with dynamically-loaded steel structures, those notches by the ankle pivot scare the heck out of me!  Maybe things are different in plastic, but still...  A generous radius will reduce the stress concentration greatly.  

[Buell]

There is a hole drilled at the bottom of each slit.  

[RoroSnow]

Nils :

As in my picture in the previous post from Buell's one, the B&D cuff pivot spare parts (though very well done) are not neceserly needed.

I did rivet mine, but it is also possible instead of riveting it as I did, to put a screw from the inside once the original cuff rivet is drilled, and then a bolt on the outside.

The B&D components would be of course the ultimate solution, though not the cheapest one (about 90$ if I remember well).

Corey :

Here is a picture taken from Phantom Bindings FB page about john's boot mods with the slits. Probably one of his firsts iterations. The holes at the end of each slit is better visible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by RoroSnow

[nils]

yes got the holes for slits idea...thnx Roro!

Question regarding the Phantoms I could not find on the website > with my modified pucks, I have something like 35° angle possible with my Dyno HD > how far in angles can you go with the phantoms?

something to note:  with high angles 35/20° on a swallowtail 3-4 parts is the back binding is not holding the parts as well as with zero or duck angles...this is why am working on a lockable assembly tail part ( the karaokam plastic sliders are just here for holding the tips, but they do not provide strong assembly.)

Nils

[neanderthal]

Phantoms max angle is 30 degrees.

I asked about making some cleats with a higher angle when they started to make fixed angle cleats ( wanted to ride at about 40 - 45 degrees in the front and 30 rear). He said currently max angle is 30. it may be hard to use that system with a higher angle because it would interfere with the touring toe pieces  as you rotate to place and remove the plate. A few people have asked but it isn't likely that higher angles would be produced :(

If there is interest in some higher angles from this community I encourage everyone to write phantom and perhaps seeing a demand a higher angle cleat might come to be. 

I can see how it would be hard to use with dynafit toe pieces but there are more minimal which shouldn't interfere (http://www.maruelli.com/M2SPLITBOARD/M2SPLITBOARD.htm)

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by neanderthal

[nils]

thnx

indeed...that is why my pucks are a bit better for now ( can go up to 35-37 i think)

The front  piece does not need a releasable binding such as the dynafit indeed: its heavy and takes up too much room...Lightest is the Gignoux ( ultimate 2 the lightest for real) or that of an italian maker ( forgot the name) that is around 30 grams.. Rangers are a bit heavier but more solid..

[P06781]

It is possible to get more "alpine " style angles using pucks and cutting them down .  The trick is to change the direction of front slider to slide from the heellside . Otherwise the touring brackets are in the way .  This is what I did to get 50/45 on my donek split keeping my 21" stance width .

Edited December 16, 2016 by P06781

[nils]

yes, the issue seems to be for 3-4 parts splitboards, because then you have 3 pucks and cannot trim them enough ( you still need some plastic on the angles of the outside pucks.

Here is a pic explaining the issue with my modified pucks. You do need at least 15mm of plastic on the outer angles of the pucks..I chose to stay below 35° so I could keep having a bit more plastic. The more plastic you have guiding the biding, the stiffer the system is and the least play it takes under work load.

As you can see, the central part overlaps the sides by a mere 4-5mm and helps keeping the parts together...but basically its the binding that keeps everything together, not the pucks, not the plum connectors or karakoram tips or custom tail part.

If one would go over 35°, then the 18mm would reduce to a single point of contact, making the assembly less safer. I guess this is the limit of this technology for higher angles on 3-4 parts boards. This is why it seems the phantom system seems interesting providing they modify it for higher angles.

Nils

 

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by nils
added pic and explaination

[Scooby2]

Nils, I think you can still go to higher angles there with a 3 piece split.  The portion of the pucks on the outside can be left longer even overlapping onto the middle section.  This will also add rigidity.  The leverage over the outside portions of the split pushing the sidecut into the snow is still very strong since the outside 1/3 sections are so narrow.  I think Markus at Wildschnee is still offering custom puck blanks. 

If you have them overlap though and you are regular foot, you have to flip your clips or make custom ones so the split sections all slide together right.  In the attached photo the nose of the board is up, so the clips are the opposite of the voile/industry standard.  This board has 45 degrees on the front foot with overlapping pucks. 

The slider tracks and pucks do need to be longer though for easier hardboot use and easier toe clearance with hard or softboots when climbing.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Scooby2