Jack M Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 That thread about getting stranded on a chairlift made me think of this. At most mountains it seems, if you buy a day ticket you can ski for an hour and if conditions aren't to your liking you can exchange the ticket for a voucher to be used at a later date. Some places even give you a full refund. However if you have a season pass, you're kinda screwed. One day a few years ago at Sugarloaf (back when I had a pass) conditions were miserable. I also felt like they could have been better with smarter grooming/snowmaking - it wasn't purely mother nature - but that's not my point. Bad conditions happen, fine, I accept that. However I was discouraged and grumpy and then I noticed the sign on the chairlift tower: "Snow so good it's guaranteed!" That just pissed me off. It was precisely the <i>wrong</i> sign to show me right at that moment. What arrogance. Yeah, I know it was just referring to the fact that you can get a voucher, but that wording implies that they have control over the conditions at all times. They must think I'm a moron if they expect me to believe that. How condescending. It got me dwelling on my theory of how ASC was trying to turn Skiing into McSkiing - all homogenized, sanitized, and wrapped up in a tidy package falsely advertized as "safe" and always good. It's no wonder people sue ski resorts when the idiots who manage them tell people that sliding down a snowy mountain at great speed is a safe thing to do, and that they will always provide good conditions when they know damn well they can't. It takes the responsibility for the individual's safety off the individual and places it on the resort. So in a huff I went down to guest services and demanded to know how they were going to fulfill their guarantee to me, a loyal season pass holder. They looked at me like I had two heads, and didn't have an answer. So I demanded a voucher. They wanted to know what I would do with it, and I asked what difference does it make? They suspected I would sell it in the parking lot. I pointed out the guarantee again, and that it wasn't really any of their business, but I planned on giving it to a friend. They just couldn't get their head around this concept. Eventually I walked out of there with a voucher, but they really thought I was being an a-hole. I know I can be sometimes (well, I'd like to think it was a college phase that I'm beyond now), but I just don't think I was in the wrong that time. Anyone else see it my way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAD1 Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Amen brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedzilla Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I work at a ski area, and thankfully we don't have any "snow guarantees". In my opinion, that is just plain stupid. We can't control the weather, so in turn we have limited control of the snow conditions. Yesterday was a perfect example. After three or four days of 50+ degree days and 20 degree nights, the snow was HARD. The places that were groomed turned into 6 inches of ground up ice pellets, and the ungroomed terrain would have been better on ice skates. There was nothing that could be done to fix the conditions yesterday. Last night they started making snow to get a fresh layer on everything. In my opinion, this is the best thing about having a season pass. If the conditions suck, you can go home without feeling like you've been cheated out of a $30+ lift ticket. Hey it could be worse, you could have a season pass to an area in the Pacific Northwest and not be riding at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 "Snow so good its gauranteed", should be, "Snow so good it is gauranteed to the best of our ability". I don't think that any ski resort can gaurantee its slope conditions because no ski resort can control whether or not it snows. Ofcourse snowmaking is possible but only under certain conditions. I think most ski resorts try hard to make conditions optimal. The fact that you went riding and conditions were bad doesn't mean the resort didn't try. With the limited time we all have on the slopes, we want our riding days to have good riding conditions. It doesn't always happen. Some days conditions suck no matter what the resort does to the snow. You happened to ride on one of those days. I ride in crappy conditions almost every night. Oh well, I just feel greatful that I have the opportunity to ride at night. If you want to complain thats your choice but I know I wouldn't. Not about conditions anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim Tuthill Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Jack: You take your chances in this life!! Mammoth has the early bird deal, season for $500. You can't beat that. You are looking at the possibility of OCT to JULY. It takes 7 days to pay it off. I may do Aspen next year. $1450 for the pass. 20 days to pay it off, to me it's still a good deal. See you next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Originally posted by jtslalom If you want to complain thats your choice but I know I wouldn't. Not about conditions anyway. Oh I agree with everything you said aside from me being wrong - my complaint was not merely that conditions were bad, it was that joe daytripper gets the red carpet treatment while the loyal $1100 season pass holder gets the shaft, and that they had the audacity to make such a stupid claim. BTW, that sign has since been removed. The way I see it, they said they had a guarantee, so I called them on it. Nothing wrong about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Jack, I agree with your McSkiing idea. I was at Snow Saturday and it was crazy crowded. All the lots were full, the lodges were crazy and the trails were even crazier. At the end of the day two A$$ Monkey's were saying to each other "dude! this was the best day ever!" I was thinking hmmm... john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Oh I do see it your way, Jack. However, see it from Ski Resort's way -- it's all about dollar signs, regardless of their "true/false" advertising. At least, be grateful you got yours back! and Im damn glad you got your money back! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 If you didn't see it, check out my Mid-Atlantic Resort Conditions Glossary. It's an attempt at satirical humor---but also a serious commentary on the typical state of my local resort (Whitetail). What drives me nuts is the resort's over-the-top, outlandish website language..."Out of a 1-10 scale, today is an 11!!!" or "You have GOT to be on the mountain today---conditions are just PHENOMENAL!!!" Seriously---they say that kind of BS all the time! Grrr... Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I'm ususally just happy to be able to ride as much as I do. This time of year I actually feel a little burnout from riding so many days in a row, BUT the mountain managers do get under my skin a little some times. For instance, this past weekend the Grand Prix was held at mountain creek (my local hill). On Friday morning the day before the competition, the slopes were groomed to absolute perfection - seemless, perfect graded hardpack carpet over the ENTIRE mountain. It was so well groomed that it was very noticably, totaly out of the ordinary compared to the regular groomed conditions. That was an unbeleivable morning of riding but I left thinking I will never see them groom this place like that again till next years competition. Apparently outside people were brought in to cut the superpipe and groom the mountain for the pros and big companies. I understand the business side of it and the need to impress big names in the industry, but to see those perfect conditions and what the mountain is capable of producing was a little disheartening for the lowly season pass holder such as myself. Granted my season pass was only 239$ but to have the contrasting grooming coditions be soooo obvious was frustrating. By Sunday morning the mountain was back to scraped off shallow groom, they could have done better. I will probably try to bring that up to someone at the mountain. I understand that conditions are completely unpredictable, like others have said. I don't expect a guarantee of good snow. I TRULY appreciate even having the use of my legs (my uncle is having both legs amputated tomorrow from the knee down) and I am so thankful to have a MADD under my feet that laughs at ice. Maybe I'll get a petition signed by locals today when I head over for some turns. Pass holders UNITE!!!! Damn the Man!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johann Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I personally Look at my season's pass as a way to get my money's worth. if its a crummy day, and I only get one run in, I don't care, I can come back the next day or the day after that and not pay anymore for a lift ticket. Bad conditions, crummy crowd go home. Course most of the time I'm just happy to be at the hill. A crummy day on snow is better than any day at the office. A snow gaurontee is assinine though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 there were some folks here at bach right around Xmas... the reports made it look FAR better than it was...so this whole family demanded complete refunds for tickets AND lodging I was told and got it. its just like the rest of the advertising industry. instead of just stating the unadulterated facts and letting people decide for themselves, the truth gets twisted in an effort that often backfires. really makes no sense, but its just "the way it is" and very few dare to differ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Yellow Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 well.. you take a gamble when you buy a pass.... heck this season I don't think I'm going to break even on my pass... weird weather this year.... :rolleyes: at least I don't have to waist time in the ticket line... I garontee :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Not so sure you can complain about the conditions....but you most certainly can (and should!) complain about the grooming and/or maintenance. As Speedzilla well knows, 5 years ago they would spread "death cookies" all over the hill b/c they didn't want to run the groomer all the time. But, sometimes...they have to run to cookie machine to turn up the snow and run the groomer a day later. As easy as it may sound, grooming is very much an art...... With that said, I'd do a cost/benefit analysis at the end of the year and send it to the hill. i.e. Season Pass - $XXX Days boarded - X Cost per day- - X Minus the days the hill sucked and wouldn't have bought a ticket and/or gotten a voucher - X You get the idea. Power in numbers. Ride with a "If you think the grooming here sucks, please tell management" sticker on your back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 ASC aside remember that most ski areas work this way in particular the bigger ones if you have a season pass you are basicly like a crack head and there is only one dealer around because they already have your money and they know you are gonna come back people on day passes they need to keep happy so they come back and spend money on hotels, food and gear is it how I would run my ski area(if I had one), hell no it could be worse I guess when I worked at steamboat I saw allot of stuff that I would NEVER deem acceptable and would have been truely pissed about back east had I been a guest I totally aggree with top notch service, people spend allot of money to go skiing and for many that is their vacation for the year so they should get only the best service Places like mount snow and killington and steamboat all seem to have forgotten this I had a ski america pass and I forgot it in ME so when I got to killington for three days they expected me to pay $50 for a reprint because they did not want to print me a three day pass, the first person I talked to told me I should go get it in ME I was pretty heated, eventually I talked to someone who would treatme with some respect and all was good but I should not of had too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtslalom Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 my complaint was not merely that conditions were bad, it was that joe daytripper gets the red carpet treatment while the loyal $1100 season pass holder gets the shaft They have your money allready, all $1100. They only have $52 from day tripper and want more money from him. To get him to come back and spend more they will give him a free pass. He'll probably spend money even though he has a free pass( food, locker rental, ski/snowboard rental, buying tickets for his kids, etc) They are making money just like any other company. It sucks to be a season pass holder when it comes to this scenario, but I still wouldn't complain. If the ski resort was grossly negligent with terrible conditions with NO grooming, then maybe I would complain. There are less ski resorts now than there were in the 1980's. Many mom and pop operated ski areas are closed. Law suits and poor profits. I will never add to any ski resorts demise unless they are grossly negligent. I don't think complaining does, but certainly getting a free days pass when you are a seaon pass holder already adds to it. Let it go and just complain, don't try to get something for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Originally posted by jtslalom I will never add to any ski resorts demise unless they are grossly negligent. I don't think complaining does, but certainly getting a free days pass when you are a seaon pass holder already adds to it. Let it go and just complain, don't try to get something for it. I did it to send a message and I think it worked. The sign is gone. They also had another one that read: "The best snow conditions on any day can be found at an ASC resort". Puh-leezz! I believe that sign is gone too. I don't feel bad about it because it was only once. And heck, they were giving out vouchers to other unsatisfied customers, why not me too? I agree giving day-ticket vouchers to season pass holders is probably unrealistic, but if they're going to guarantee their conditions and make preposterous claims about them, I think they need to be fair about it. I actually called up my phone company once and said hey, I see these freebies all the time for people who switch to your service, what do you do for your loyal customers? They were happy to give me the going promotion at the time, which was something like a month of free long distance. Of course I see the mountain's side, but I just hate being a loyal customer and being taken for granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ethanpt Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I bought the Mc- ASC pass this year since it was cheap. I went to mt snow last sunday...what a joke. Perhaps the most crowded experience I have ever had. Waste of a tank of gas. I am really questioning if its worth buying this pass. Unfortunately I work M-F so I have to take benefit time to go during the week. I am wondering if next year I will be better off going to the smaller less comercialized places- saddleback, magic mountain, etc??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I'll never buy a season pass again. Last time I bought one, the resort closed in late march, even though they had 60+ inch base. The reason? The only people who were going anymore that year were season pass holders, very few daily ticket buyers. Could have got another month of spring riding in. Very sleazy if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 ethanpt, i am in the same boat as you. i will say though, that i have gotten my moneys worth from the pass before it got crazy crowded. i do believe i have gotten a good value from it at $350. i am wondering how many other people will go through the same thought process as you and maybe next year wont be so bad? john Originally posted by ethanpt I bought the Mc- ASC pass this year since it was cheap. I went to mt snow last sunday...what a joke. Perhaps the most crowded experience I have ever had. Waste of a tank of gas. I am really questioning if its worth buying this pass. Unfortunately I work M-F so I have to take benefit time to go during the week. I am wondering if next year I will be better off going to the smaller less comercialized places- saddleback, magic mountain, etc??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tim Tuthill Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Jack: I see we won't run out of things to talk about next week. See ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Sub Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Originally posted by Galen I'll never buy a season pass again. Last time I bought one, the resort closed in late march, even though they had 60+ inch base. The reason? The only people who were going anymore that year were season pass holders, very few daily ticket buyers. Could have got another month of spring riding in. Very sleazy if you ask me. oh hell yeah thats sleazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted February 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Originally posted by ethanpt I am wondering if next year I will be better off going to the smaller less comercialized places- saddleback, magic mountain, etc??? If you're going to make the drive to Saddleback, you may as well go to the loaf. Sugarloaf has 10 times the carving terrain, and is the least spoiled ASC resort I think. Sunday River serves as a buffer to skim off most of the jeans-wearers and other riff raff. Generally only people who appreciate the mountain make the longer drive to Sugarloaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Jack ,I AGREE 100%. Why should it be OK to give a Voucher to someone that buys a pass for 1 day and NOT a Season Pass holder? Is their money any better than yours? Hell NO! Reminds me of AT&T years ago, advertising to pay their 'old' customers to COME BACK ! I was a loyal customer through the years and NEVER left, so I called the 800 number and asked them "what are you going to give me, I never left"? They said, "we can't offer you anything"! I said, " OK then I'm finding another phone company tomorrow", and did. About 3 weeks later they offered me $75. to come back ! Business ethecs? Galen, that happens every year @ my local resort in Pa ! All I can do is hope I get enough days in to pay for my pass, and it probably will NOT happen this season. Because as soon as it gets warmer out, most people start thinking about other activities. Like you said, when the money stops comming in, they close the place down, no matter how much base is still left. Heck last season they had more snow when they closed it than they did all season! Season Pass holders don't mean 'squat', they ALREADY have your money !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywhit Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 So I demanded a voucher. They wanted to know what I would do with it, and I asked what difference does it make? They suspected I would sell it in the parking lot. I pointed out the guarantee again, and that it wasn't really any of their business, but I planned on giving it to a friend. They just couldn't get their head around this concept. Eventually I walked out of there with a voucher, but they really thought I was being an a-hole. I know I can be sometimes (well, I'd like to think it was a college phase that I'm beyond now), but I just don't think I was in the wrong that time. Nice one, Jack ! Free Vouchers , good tip.I don't know how anyone can even think about carving on the overcrowded madness on the weekends. I'm pretty psyched ASC is handing out passes for $350 , but saturdays & sundays?, forget it.I'd rather slalom thru the mall. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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