Tail washes out on a heel side carve.

[McKarver]

I have a 155cm Flux, with a soft boot setup. This weekend was the first time I rode the board, the runs were groomed. The board performed well for the most part, but there were times when the tail would slide out when I'd do a heel side carve, usually at the bottom of the turn. The front bindings are set at 16 degrees and the back at 5 degrees. I'm looking for some advice so I can correct this, I think it's either my setup and/or my technique, or both.

Thanks.

[H2O]

1) Try to set a bigger angle on front binding (close to 25°); when I rode in softboots my setting was 3°/9° (rear) and 27° front. 

2) May be you doesn't rotate your torso/hips; rotation is important!  

3) Add a bit of set-back to your stance.

[SaffainSweden]

I solved that problem by making sure that I keep my back arm pointing down and parallel to my back leg. That way you get more pressure on your edge.

[BlueB]

With the forward stances you need the rear highback to have more lean then forward one.

Make sure that you transfer the weight front to back as you progress through the turn.

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[SnowboardingJ]

Or you may have heel drag at the back foot with the swallow angle. But it usually happen at the apex.

[Sasquatch_Surfer]

I have a Flux as well (in a 164) and ride about 15 front and -9 rear. With the shallow angles I find that ensuring that I am transferring some pressure to the rear foot especially at the bottom/end of the heel side helps keep the edge in the snow and can give you a little boost as well depending on how much pressure you bring to the back foot. Also, especially heel side, if you are used to riding a more alpine stance you may have a tendency to twist your torso into that heel side turn. If so, and you have some rotation/twist at turn initiation, just blend that off during the turn and bring you hips back in line with the board as you go through so that near the middle end you are aligned with the board. this will also help bring some pressure to that rear foot. 

[Beckmann AG]

You've got too much bend at the front half of the board, and not enough at the tail end, such that the tail end cannot follow the same path as the front end.

[lordmetroland]

You've got too much bend at the front half of the board, and not enough at the tail end, such that the tail end cannot follow the same path as the front end.

 

And would a bit more setback in the front foot possible even things out? I believe I'm quoting Book of Beckmann 01:1-2

[Beckmann AG]

^It might, but this :

The board performed well for the most part, but there were times when the tail would slide out...

 

suggests rider input/timing error.

 

Unilateral leg fatigue/stress usually rides shotgun with 'Inappropriate' setback. 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Beckmann AG

[McKarver]

So, if my set back and stance is wrong, I'm probably working against my board. The binding angles are easy to adjust. But

what's the rule of thumb for finding the correct setback? Yes, timing needs improvement. Until I can link up with an instructor,

I'll be learning by trial and error.

Thanks for the input.

[Beckmann AG]

If your setback and stance is wrong, you'll be compensating for the way the board behaves, given unintentional inputs.

 

Initial setback setup (assuming highback is proper, and binding offset is optimized):

 

On a relatively flat slope, commonly referred to as 'the benny hill', ride on one foot across the hill at a shallow angle.

Do this both toe and heel side, standing casually, with hips/shoulders in line with front foot.

If the setback is sufficient, the board should track 'clean' on both edges.

If the setback is not sufficient (too far ahead) the board will probably try to spin and 'wash'.

If the setback is excessive, the board will track, but will probably 'come around' slowly (both feet in, easy turning), especially on the toe side. 

 

If you're doing 'almost nothing', so too should your board.

 

As to the timing thing, as you exit your toeside, try to feel edge contact develop under your rear heel slightly before your front heel. The net effect should have you standing on both feet, rather than with a front foot bias as the turn comes around.

Try this on easy terrain first.

 

There are a few other considerations, but that should keep you occupied for a while.

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

Going back a bit;  The Highbacks are key to edge pressure in softboot set-ups. It seems to me that with the info given here, you do need to sort out the forward lean

on the highbacks. Definitely have a few degrees more of lean on the rear binding than the front. When you find the right amount of lean here, your arc will clean-up considerably. As Erik noted ; "You've got too much bend at the front half of the board, and not enough at the tail end, such that the tail end cannot follow the same path as the front end." ; which means you're working too hard at the turn's start to get on edge, and blowing out later because the rear of the board isn't on-edge enough to deal with the pressure you're feeding it.

 

Can you also 'rotate' the front highback (usually at the hinge-points) such that the center is a bit forward, bringing the highback more 'inline' with the board's edge? I find that the adjustment there allows for a smoother entry into heelsie turns, as any forward-to-the-heel movement gets to the board's edge, vs. putting my hip/knee out ahead and into the void. Power-wing highbacks (like on my TechNines) do wonders here.

 

Lastly, consider a stiffer rear-foot toe strap.  Why?  Because, if you're aggressive in your carves, you may indeed be 'pulling Up at the toes' during a deep heelside turn. Translating that little bit of energy may be enough to 'twist the ice-cube-tray' and give the end of your turn that extra bite.

 

Note, I only went after equipment fixes at the bindings. I'm hoping the rest will follow.

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

Oh, and I forgot to note that this is rather familiar;  I posted up on Freecarve, circa late Oct. on the same kinda thing. John Gilmour had the dubious honor of being my first 'fix by cell phone' with this exact issue. We nailed it down with two calls and two tweaks to his highbacks.  

[lordmetroland]

Going back a bit;  The Highbacks are key to edge pressure in softboot set-ups. It seems to me that with the info given here, you do need to sort out the forward lean

on the highbacks. Definitely have a few degrees more of lean on the rear binding than the front.

 

This sounds like a bit of straightforward guidance I can put to use. Thanks for bringing this up!

[Beckmann AG]

FWIWW:

'Too much' forward lean can, and often does, create the same problem as 'too little'. Which is to say, not being able to stand where you need to stand when you need to stand there.

[lordmetroland]

Which is to say, not being able to stand where you need to stand when you need to stand there.

 

You only do this because you know you can wind me up with that "sound of one hand clapping" s***.

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

Yeah, Erik, that bunny hill traverse/slip is a great explanation and root-cause investigation, because, it puts it all in motion with very little effort or dynamics; If the balance exists in this exercise, then it will translate to good control at speed. You can check it by way of mirror/board/boots at home (as I've noted a few times on freecarve)..

 BUT, it's not MOVING! Anything 'static' like that will not give you a complete picture. Also, tracks don't usually lie about how an edge is set.

 

Consider this exercise to be the true test of your balance and the binding set-up, using the your comfort and the tracks left behind as the proof. Tweaks may yet be needed as forces gain strength, and the rider changes movement patterns, but a foundation for balance can be found here. 

[McKarver]

If your setback and stance is wrong, you'll be compensating for the way the board behaves, given unintentional inputs.

 

Initial setback setup (assuming highback is proper, and binding offset is optimized):

 

On a relatively flat slope, commonly referred to as 'the benny hill', ride on one foot across the hill at a shallow angle.

Do this both toe and heel side, standing casually, with hips/shoulders in line with front foot.

If the setback is sufficient, the board should track 'clean' on both edges.

If the setback is not sufficient (too far ahead) the board will probably try to spin and 'wash'.

If the setback is excessive, the board will track, but will probably 'come around' slowly (both feet in, easy turning), especially on the toe side. 

 

If you're doing 'almost nothing', so too should your board.

 

As to the timing thing, as you exit your toeside, try to feel edge contact develop under your rear heel slightly before your front heel. The net effect should have you standing on both feet, rather than with a front foot bias as the turn comes around.

Try this on easy terrain first.

There are a few other considerations, but that should keep you occupied for a while.

I'll try this the next time I'm on the slopes. Thanks

[Beckmann AG]

^Good luck with it.

Report back in with results.

 

 

You only do this because you know you can wind me up with that "sound of one hand clapping" s***.

Not all superpowers are readily harnessed.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Beckmann AG

[McKarver]

Back on the snow in 10 days.

[Duke]

 

 

On a relatively flat slope, commonly referred to as 'the benny hill', ride on one foot across the hill at a shallow angle.

Do this both toe and heel side, standing casually, with hips/shoulders in line with front foot.

 

 

Mr Beckmann, can you give me some more insight as to what you mean by "ride on one foot"?  As in just like when getting off the lift and one is on the stomp pad?  Front foot only and back foot in the air?  Both in the binding but weighting only one foot?

 

thanks

[Beckmann AG]

Duke,

Set the board at a shallow angle across the hill, establish glide on that edge, and then lift your 'free' foot, sole more or less parallel to the top sheet, more or less parallel to the foot attached to the board, 6" airspace (+/-) below the sole.

 

This should set your center of mass over the front foot. 

 

Posture should be as casual as if you were standing on one foot, barefoot, on the kitchen/bathroom/basement floor. 

 

Assuming the binding tilt, lift, cant, cuff alignment, forward lean, etc are all more or less as they should be, loading the board in this manner while gliding on slight edge should provide some insight into how the board will then behave once both feet are attached, and the speeds increase.  

 

Usually, if the setback feels right, I'll link a few simple carved turns, rear foot free.

Ideally, the board will exhibit 'neutral' behavior during the one foot testing.

 

That being the case, you can look toward 'intentional' rider inputs (or rear binding configuration) as a source of errant board performance.

 

Hopefully that clarifies.

 

[Duke]

 

Hopefully that clarifies.

 

Indeed, thank you.

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

This is fun to pop out during an AASI clinic. Instructors can and do fall down !  ;-D

[lafcadio]

On a relatively flat slope, commonly referred to as 'the benny hill', ride on one foot across the hill at a shallow angle.

Do this both toe and heel side, standing casually, with hips/shoulders in line with front foot.

If the setback is sufficient, the board should track 'clean' on both edges.

If the setback is not sufficient (too far ahead) the board will probably try to spin and 'wash'.

If the setback is excessive, the board will track, but will probably 'come around' slowly (both feet in, easy turning), especially on the toe side. 

 

Erik, this describes exactly what I recently started experiencing -- skating with one foot in the binding, the board always turns to toe side and heel side turns with one foot (even very slight) are impossible.

 

After reading your response and then reviewing the articles on your website, I'm going to try experimenting with the set back of my front binding.  I've only started noticing this problem the last two times I've been out, so I wonder if I misplaced the bindings after removing them recently.

 

Good stuff!  Thanks for the excellent information!