Colozeus Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Hello folks, I have been silently lurking until now. I recently got bit by the carving bug and purchased a f2 eliminator carbon 153. I'm 5'5" at around 160lbs. Hardbooting it with td3 bindings and deluxe boots. I'm coming from burton custom 148 and used to that. I can truly carve with that board in softboots without problems. However, with the eliminator, i feel like it requires way too much speed to flex and lock into a carve. Being my first freecarve/hardboot board, did i purchase one that is way to stiff? It feels like it. I was able to do a few laid down frontside carves but it felt like i needed too much speed and i was squatting 300lbs. :-/ Any advice on what board i should be really starting with? i ride on east coast. Mostly at white tail in PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Thanks for your first post at BOL!!! Glad to see a new contributor. Off hand , I would say that what you are describing is not uncommon for those just recently making the move to hardboots. I do personally believe that it is ideal for new alpine riders to go with something softer and more forgiving for their first sessions. I also have watched the progression from first ever to ripper many times and I know that the first few times out are pretty awkward and often difficult to sort out (from an operators perspective) what or why your results are different from your expectations. Suggestions, More info please. Stance angles , board specs, photos , videos etc. Do you have any local carvers ? Have you approached them? Often the best source of good info and help. Visit the "ride board" to see if any experienced carvers are in your area. Post a "Need Advice" in your regions ride board. Again, welcome to BOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00P4B1VTO From this report, sounds like it might be a bit stiff for a new alpine rider. Two things I see, looks more like a BX board, they are pretty wide, that might be a benefit while you get used to steeper angles. No specs on the ad below. What is the SCR? It might be wise to get a softer more forgiving USE board to play on to build confidence THEN move on to this board? Used , softer older boards that would serve this purpose well can be had for 75-150 including shipping. Then sell it , give it to the next alpine guy you give a hand to ?? Snowboard: Pure style and high end materials have always been the storybook for the F2 Eliminator Carbon Edition. Like the whole Eliminator series it enhances control in fast, powerful carving turns, injected with the extra punch, making it a perfect fit for powerful riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 I've not ridden that board or the 148 custom. I weigh 140 of your pounds, so I'm a little lighter. I've never found a burton Board under 156 which I can ride - the small ones are toys. My last F2 is a 163SL, so I would not expect that F2 to be particularly stiff... my SL required race speed to work, so it was a challenge if you were tired in bumps, for example. Whatever, you're the rider, and if you're saying that it only likes to turn at Mach 2, then it's perhaps too long. But I find that hard to believe. If it was your first day out then it's possible that what feels fast on a tiny board is in fact not fast, You may speed up enough to bend it as you adjust. You can't really get smaller boards for adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopestar Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Bigger SCR can be a problem. I spent most of my riding on Burton customs that are wide with between 8/9m radius'. When I had my custom Donek saber BX built I kept in mind that I like smaller radius boards and my SCR reflects that in variable 9/11. BX boards are typically much larger and will want to accelerate on the finish of a turn rather tan sitting down into a turn (which I prefer) that's a sweet board but probably better for hauling bawls than straight up carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopestar Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Bigger SCR can be a problem. I spent most of my riding on Burton customs that are wide with between 8/9m radius'. When I had my custom Donek saber BX built I kept in mind that I like smaller radius boards and my SCR reflects that in variable 9/11. BX boards typically have 12/14 radius' and will want to accelerate on the finish of a turn rather than sitting down into a turn. (which I prefer) That's a sweet board but probably better for hauling bawls than straight up carving. Edited February 12, 2015 by slopestar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colozeus Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Thanks for your first post at BOL!!! Glad to see a new contributor. Off hand , I would say that what you are describing is not uncommon for those just recently making the move to hardboots. I do personally believe that it is ideal for new alpine riders to go with something softer and more forgiving for their first sessions. I also have watched the progression from first ever to ripper many times and I know that the first few times out are pretty awkward and often difficult to sort out (from an operators perspective) what or why your results are different from your expectations. Suggestions, More info please. Stance angles , board specs, photos , videos etc. Do you have any local carvers ? Have you approached them? Often the best source of good info and help. Visit the "ride board" to see if any experienced carvers are in your area. Post a "Need Advice" in your regions ride board. Again, welcome to BOL!!! Hey there! thanks for the reply. Here is a bit more info. Stance angles: 30f 20r, i tried more aggressive angles 40/30 but found it way to awkward at first. I'm planning on slowly increasing the angles. My boot size is mondo 26, so even at those angles, i won't boot out. Board specs: http://www.f2.com/snow/boards.php?L=&da=1003&dk=46&db=11&name=ELIMINATOR%20CARBON No photos or vids, yet. I think i have seen one or two local carvers before, haven't really met any true carvers yet. A little more background, i have ridden it now about 5 times. The first 4 times, it turns out, i had a stance width that was way too wide, because even at the 30 20 angles, I felt like i was riding a tank that was impossible to initiate a turn with. Shortening my stance width helped tremendously. Perhaps i'm just use to how soft my burton custom is. i'm also still breaking in my hard boots, even though i had t hem molded at the local shop, they still hurt after a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 Bigger SCR can be a problem. I spent most of my riding on Burton customs that are wide with between 8/9m radius'. When I had my custom Donek saber BX built I kept in mind that I like smaller radius boards and my SCR reflects that in variable 9/11. BX boards are typically much larger and will want to accelerate on the finish of a turn rather tan sitting down into a turn (which I prefer) that's a sweet board but probably better for hauling bawls than straight up carving. Ditto. Had a F2 Eliminator WC 164 and its characteristics are just what slopestar said. Don't give up on it yet. Eliminator is a quiet carving friendly board which you can ride with soft or hard boots. Checkout this post to ride with others. I'm coming up tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 It is just the much bigger side cut radius that you are experiencing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 what is your stance width and where are your bindings set up on the board (middle inserts, forward of center etc)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colozeus Posted February 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 what is your stance width and where are your bindings set up on the board (middle inserts, forward of center etc)? I have to measure my stance width, but i'm pretty sure it's around 18". I have it set as short of a stance as i can go. Initially i was using the reference marks, but it was way too wide of a stance and felt really uncomfortable. As for the boots, i just have them centered on the board. Looking at the board from above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Guy... Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Colozeus, try your inseam length * 0.607 = stance width. It's not the be- all end- all for stance width, but it'll get you pretty close to ideal and if nothing else is a good baseline to start from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutmeg Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Ditto. Had a F2 Eliminator WC 164 and its characteristics are just what slopestar said. Don't give up on it yet. Eliminator is a quiet carving friendly board which you can ride with soft or hard boots. Checkout this post to ride with others. I'm coming up tonight. Just to add some numbers. According to F2 the specs of Eliminator WC/Proto differ from Eliminator and Eliminator WC, the former have a bigger radius: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Just to add some numbers. According to F2 the specs of Eliminator WC/Proto differ from Eliminator and Eliminator WC, the former have a bigger radius: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yup. Eliminator is a stiff BX board which has bigger SCR than usual freeride boards that many softbooters are familiar with. But for hardbooter, it has relatively avg. stiffness and SCR for its length. I don't remembrr what my WC's SCR was but i was able to bend it and turn as tight as SL decks. Still my first choice for softboot carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colozeus Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yup. Eliminator is a stiff BX board which has bigger SCR than usual freeride boards that many softbooters are familiar with. But for hardbooter, it has relatively avg. stiffness and SCR for its length. I don't remembrr what my WC's SCR was but i was able to bend it and turn as tight as SL decks. Still my first choice for softboot carving. Ok, so it sounds like i just need to get use to the larger scr and stiffness. Perhaps i need a larger board? after doing some more reading, it seems like 153 might be a bit short for me. Should i have gone with something around 160 instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 At 5'5", the 153 is right in the BX size range for you. You could go up or down, but don't over think it to much as you get used to a much higher performance board set up AND a new boot/ binding type. I'm taller and heavier then you, and I still pull out a 155 for days when I want a shorter board to whip around on. At some point you may end up with different size/ spec boards for different applications, but for now you have a solid set up that feels strange because it's several major changes (stiffness, sidecut, boots/bindings) all at once. You may even consider throwing your soft boots on there to take a few runs and parse out how the deck feels, then move the plates over to help isolate the variables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Guy... Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) At 5'5", the 153 is right in the BX size range for you. Please allow me to disagree with you here. A board can't tell how tall you are, only how heavy you are. He's 73kg, which is 8 kg outside the recommended weight range for the 153. On the next one up, a 158, he's still at the high end of the weight range. To go to the extreme, he's still pretty much smack in the middle of the spec on many 180 GS boards. Granted, the weight ranges are suggestions, but do exist for a reason. Otherwise, spot on with the rest of your post. Colozeus- If the board you're on now feels big, a bigger board isn't the answer. In time, it will be, but not now. Mr.E's suggestion to eliminate a couple variables and go back to softies on the new deck is sound and should be followed. Another thing to consider is the construction and profile of the board. Some boards are decambered at both ends and when running flat and at low angles, they behave like smaller boards because there's less running length on the snow. The full cambered glass boards I've ridden have generally been more snappy and less forgiving of laziness when compared to a decambered metal board. Edited February 14, 2015 by That Guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Disagree all you want. I agree that weight is a bigger influence, but so is leverage. I'd imagine most WC riders at 5'5" are riding smaller boards, and even if they are lighter riders I'd imagine they are proportionality stronger (this is a generalization having never met the poster). My main point (and yours, I believe) is that, if anything, going to a longer, stiffer deck isn't going to make the transition any easier. The move from a 148 freeride board to a 153 bx deck is a good jump on it's own. Edited February 14, 2015 by Mr.E 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Hello folks, I have been silently lurking until now. I recently got bit by the carving bug and purchased a f2 eliminator carbon 153. I'm 5'5" at around 160lbs. Hardbooting it with td3 bindings and deluxe boots. I'm coming from burton custom 148 and used to that. I can truly carve with that board in softboots without problems. However, with the eliminator, i feel like it requires way too much speed to flex and lock into a carve. Being my first freecarve/hardboot board, did i purchase one that is way to stiff? It feels like it. I was able to do a few laid down frontside carves but it felt like i needed too much speed and i was squatting 300lbs. :-/ Any advice on what board i should be really starting with? i ride on east coast. Mostly at white tail in PA. Best advice might be to stay involved with the BOL community and perhaps ASK first before buying your next carving board ?? :) Glad you finally stopped lurking and posted up. I think you have a good path to now move forward on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLikeSnow Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) Too hard? You're 8kg over the weight range for the board! A board that's too soft for you will not properly hold an edge and is easier to break. You will probably feel like its clunkier than your custom while you go slow (board too hard?) until you get it up to operational speed - and then it's unstable because it's actually too short and soft for you. Get something in your size. You will grow into it. I'm your size (and working on shedding some weight. Damn christmas dinners) and riding a Goltes Scorpion 159 (softboots) and a Pogo Hardcore (hardboots), for both of which i'm at the lower end of the recommended weight. Edited February 15, 2015 by iLikeSnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colozeus Posted February 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Please allow me to disagree with you here. A board can't tell how tall you are, only how heavy you are. He's 73kg, which is 8 kg outside the recommended weight range for the 153. On the next one up, a 158, he's still at the high end of the weight range. To go to the extreme, he's still pretty much smack in the middle of the spec on many 180 GS boards. Granted, the weight ranges are suggestions, but do exist for a reason. Otherwise, spot on with the rest of your post. Colozeus- If the board you're on now feels big, a bigger board isn't the answer. In time, it will be, but not now. Mr.E's suggestion to eliminate a couple variables and go back to softies on the new deck is sound and should be followed. Another thing to consider is the construction and profile of the board. Some boards are decambered at both ends and when running flat and at low angles, they behave like smaller boards because there's less running length on the snow. The full cambered glass boards I've ridden have generally been more snappy and less forgiving of laziness when compared to a decambered metal board. Wow, thanks for all the great responses! So masochist me decided to go back out to whitetail yesterday afternoon. This time i took the eliminator out with my soft boot setup. Burton mission bindings and my lovely k2 maysis db boots. I had a blast on it. Was riding with 30f 20r on binding angles. Was able to pull off some almost laid down carves, conditions weren't the best and it was a little crowded. I definitely got a better feel for the board on the soft setup. I think the biggest factor here is me getting use to the larger scr. I'm accostomed to the smaller scr of my custom and templar magtek rossi board. I decided to leave when i was almost killed by ms. pizza box skier. *sigh* I think i just need some wider trails to really have some fun on this board. I'll be in jackson hole all of next week so that should be fun. I'll take everyones advice and stick with this board until i get more used to the new setup. I'll go back out in softboots once more then switch back to the hardboot setup. That being said, what would you guys recommend my next board should be? I'm thinking it should be something more custom with a smaller SCR for east coast trails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Colozeus, I have few boards you can try. Come and join me when I am up. Watch for my date on the WT Riding tread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colozeus Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Colozeus, I have few boards you can try. Come and join me when I am up. Watch for my date on the WT Riding tread. Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colozeus Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I am now speaking with Bruce from coiler. He told me the carbon eliminator doesn't have the flex pattern compatible with the power you can deliver with a hard setup. I'm sure he can build me something to better suit my tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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