K2 Kwicker

[RCrobar]

K2 Kwicker System

 

Thoughts on the Kwicker boots when riding both resort and back country powder would really be appreciated.

Any thoughts, reviews or feedback on the K2 Kwicker system would be great as well.

I've googled, youtubed and searched as best I can. 

From the multiple searches I have gleaned that the K2 Boots with the double Boa and built in highback construction has inspired the re-brand or re-birth of the clicker.  The rebuilt boots with increased strength a build in high back and a double Boa that now behaves like a top strap we key to the rebirth. 

The sales pitch is that the boots were the weak link in the past.  K2 claims that the mobility and weight of the Kwicker boots are as good as a standard soft boot and binding.



Cheers
Rob

Edited January 9, 2015 by RCrobar

[lonbordin]

Kwicker system link.  What is old is new again... :-D

[HHH]

I have a pair of the older K2 clicker boots with Boa(older than my kids) and I have a pair of the newer K2 Stark boots. 

I have used the Starks with and without a highback.

Older boots need a highback, but Starks do not.  They are stiff enough.

I kept clickers as I am an old guy who likes stepping in vs  sitting down to strap in.

The only negative,  you cannot adjust the angle of the boot unlike hard boots and soft bindings.

I  have never tried the boots on a hard boot alpine board. 

 

They are probably one of the stiffness boots you can get without going to hard boots.

I had an issue after the warranty period expired, but K2 still sent a new pair of boots.

[RCrobar]

I've edited my original post a bit.

 

Hi Lonbordin:  Yes, I have already watched all the videos in the link you provided ... but thank you for your reply.

 

Hi HHH: Thanks for the Stark boot information, can you explain what failed in the new Stark boot?

 

A little more information.  I have a split board and was interested in the idea of using the same BOOT for both split and standard boards in both backcounrty and resort powder.  I have never used a step in soft boot, old or new, and was curious as to whether the original issues have truely been addressed.

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

Rob

Edited January 9, 2015 by RCrobar

[heroshmero]

The boot/binding engagement looks to be largely unchanged. The Clicker system was/is great. Very strong, very little to fail.

 

The same problems exist but are much the same as with any snowboard boot... you need to clear the snow from the bottom of the boot before you enter the binding. That is the same with any softboot/hardboot system. It's generally as easy as having a decent stomp pad like the Dakine Spike Stomp. Just scrape the snow off the bottom of the boot and then stomp down with your heel. That's usually all it takes to clear the snow from the bottom of the boot.

 

I'd still be riding Clickers if I could find boots. I thought the system was fantastic. 

 

I personally can't buy into the Kwicker's now because we all know what happens when a manufacturer abandons a product line. I simply couldn't find the boots that I wanted anymore.

Edited January 9, 2015 by heroshmero

[Futahaguro]

Throwback baby!  Wow.  That is truly amusing.  I used the last version up to about 5 years ago when my boots fell apart.  Personally, I loved them because they were always solid enough for me and I could click in on the lift if I really wanted to.  I might need to buy them again with 2 pair of boots if I like them so I can use them when they discontinue them again:)  I am sure everyone will complain about the same issues, "sloppy", "cannot click in", "not flexible enough", blah blah.

 

Thanks for pointing these out.  I wonder how well they will work with the Bomber Power Plates.

[HHH]

Out of control kid plowed into a few us of in the lift line.

Board hit my right boot very hard where one of the Boa lace guides is stitched in.

The Boa cable guide came loose the next week when cranked tight.  The hit seems to have cracked the plastic guide. 

K2 was great about covering the boots after the warranty expired.

 

My experience is 90% groomers, so I can't comment on backcountry or split boarding.

 

Older step ins without an adjustable high back were not great.

Older step ins with an adjustable high back are as good as anything.  The problem was only two or three models had adjustable lean high backs.

The boots are definitely stiffer, warmer and lighter than my old ones. Feels more like walking in ski boots than snowboard boots.

Using the second Boa to crank down your heel is also a nice feature.

[RCrobar]

Interesting that most guys seem to like the clicker system, but also seem to have a lack of trust in the company for letting them down years ago.  

 

Tonight I spoke to our local K2 guy, he is afraid to bring in a binding that only 2 pair of boots can be used with.  He also felt that the hard core backcountry guys want a product that has standard parts in case of a break down when out in the middle of no where!  

 

At first glance it doesn't seem like there are many parts to break on the bindings, were the old bindings reliable?

 

Cold feet is an issue for me, so hearing that the K2 boots are very dry and warm is a big plus for me.

 

Can anyone comment on K2's over all fit?

 

I've heard that K2 boots fit on the wider side, which I am hoping for; our local shop has nothing in my size at the moment!  My frame of reference is the Malamute, I like them but find the toe box to be too tight for my wide feet causing them to freeze easily.  I will use Hotronics with the next soft boot, so not too tight is the toe box is very important.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Rob

[icebiker]

Kwicker system link.  What is old is new again... :-D

Narrator sounds a lot like Christopher Walken!

[OhD]

I used to ride Clickers with the Sherpa boots (external highback, somewhat adjustable) and loved them until I stuffed the nose into a bump and suddenly had a really phat pair of high-heeled sneakers.  The boot plates had pulled halfway out of the soles and stuck there.  I looked really sexy strutting around in them, and had killer heelside angulation, but couldn't walk and carry a drink to save my life.  K2 replaced the boots with a pair of their first Boa Transformers, which prove to be remarkably olive green for a pair of buckets, and after loaning them to a friend who got himself locked into one boot and had to cut the cable I gave up on the system and bought Burton stuff.  I liked the elegance, the compact and lightweight bindings, and the general ease of use (except when icing, when the teflon-coated version proved better but not perfect).  The boots were the weak link both structurally and ergonomically.   The Sherpa boots were pretty damn close ergonomically, and I was really sorry to have them fail on me.  

 

The Clicker had a pretty small footprint on the board, minimizing the impact on board flex pattern, and relied on a stiff boot sole to transfer force from the small binding engagement length to the toes and heels.  The stress in the boot sole was pretty high, hence the failure in my case - the plastic sole failed and the steel cleat chassis in the insole just ripped right through it.  It wouldn't have taken a lot of reinforcement or a much larger chassis plate to make it stronger than my legs.  I think K2 was really close and bailed too soon on the Clicker, but the strappy sandal bindings were cheaper, universally adaptable and looked big and robust so I think K2 just decided not to fight the juggernaut any longer.  I have a newer pair of K2 Boa boots that felt great in the store and for the first few days of use, but are already getting limp and bony in all the wrong places, but I ride softies so infrequently that it might be that my feet are getting out of shape rather than any real inadequacy in the boots.  I'd like to see K2 succeed with the renaissance of the design if only to be able to lose the massive bindings on my softies.  Those are a total PITA even when traveling in a car, not to mention flying. Intuitively obvious gadgets but pretty dumb in many respects - guaranteed to be the commercial success!

[RCrobar]

Thanks OhD, some interesting insights for sure!

 

OhD wrote:

I'd like to see K2 succeed with the renaissance of the design if only to be able to lose the massive bindings on my softies.

 

 

Yes, packing a bunch of boards for a trip would be much nicer with these low profile Kwickers.

 

OhD wrote:

The Clicker had a pretty small footprint on the board, minimizing the impact on board flex pattern, and relied on a stiff boot sole to transfer force from the small binding engagement length to the toes and heels.  The stress in the boot sole was pretty high, hence the failure in my case

 

 

The Kwicker resort binding, on the right, looks like it has a bigger base plate when compared to the original from years ago; maybe the force is distributed over a larger area in the new set up?

[HHH]

RCrowbar- Starks fit fine,but I don't wear wide shoes. 

 Never had a binding failure, not many parts to break. I am sure it happens, but they seem pretty bulletproof.

You can buy older clicker binding on Ebay for $50.

I wonder if the new ones are really any different?

Toe, heel and locking mechanism look exactly the same and fit old/new boots.

I would be interested to hear from someone who has used the new system comparing it to a traditional hardboot set up?

Edited January 10, 2015 by HHH

[Bobby Buggs]

Keep this going as I loved the Clicker idea back in the day and would ride softies more if it had a reliable step in interface. Kwicker solves many issues for the back country stuff. I think it looks great.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Bobby Buggs

[RCrobar]

Hi HHH

 

Thank you again for your feedback, sounds like the new Stark boots work great; I am going to try find a pair to try on.

 

There is something cool about seeing just a boot on a board, the simplicity is elegant.

 

At the same time I can see why most need to hear and see more before committing to a system.

 

 

Tonight a search revealed a recall notice for the bindings, this seems real?  Here it is:

 

 

http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/Recall-Alerts/2014/Snowboard-Bindings-Recalled-by-K2-Sports/

 

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2014/37953r-eng.php

 

http://www.levybaldante.com/snowboard-bindings-recalled-k2-sports-due-fall-hazard-recall-alert/

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/morning_call/2014/04/k2-sports-snowboard-bindings-recalled.html

 

 

Any further comments would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

Rob

[OhD]

The hold-down points look about the same distance apart as the original Clickers.  The moment required to edge the board is transferred to the board as pressure down on your toes or heels and pull up on the hold down points, primarily the one farthest from the edge you are using.  The distance (moment arm) between the pressure down area and the hold-down is shorter than it is on conventional strap bindings (although with straps  the pressure points on your feet are perhaps closer together on toeside), so the forces are higher.  Simply put, the boot side of the connection has less leverage, just as a strap binding would if the straps were closer together..  Two ways of dealing with it are available:  1) Make the moment arm longer by lengthening the binding so the hold-down points working in tension are further from the ends of the boot or the pressure pads, or 2) Make the boot/sole plate stronger to cope with the high forces.  The actual hold-down cleats are plenty strong.  The force is transferred to your feet through the boot structure, and can be distributed over a larger area of the top of your foot than most straps can manage, so foot pain or strap breakage are less likely.  In my case the sole plates were too small or the sole material too weak or too thin, and that irreparable connection was the weak link in the system. 

[HHH]

Recall is real.

I have not used the new bindings, so I can't comment.

K2 made good on a repair after the warranty period expired, no questions asked.

My guess is they will stand behind the product if you have an issue.

[Futahaguro]

I don't ride a lot but I rode my Clickers with the Shimano boots and never had a problem.  They never pre-released, which is what the recall is about, and if the rider actually flipped the lock there would be no way they could pre-release.  I also never had any snow jamming problems because I knew you could not just jam your boot in an hope for the best.  I little bang of your boot on your other boot and then a slight scrape of the bottom of the boot on the locking lever and you would get any snow out.  I could then click in and ride.  As an all-mountain rider I never had any issues with them.  You definitely need the boots to fit well because they have the rest of the bindings in them.  Personally I think it was the Switch bindings and the image that killed them.  The Switch bindings definitely had more slop and I did not like them at all.  Throw in the fact that none of the "cool" people were using them, some people complained about them jamming with snow, and the lack of boots to choose from and there you go.

 

I don't board enough to spend that kind of dough on new stuff but it sure would be interesting to try them again.

 

Now that I think about it though, I have read many posts on here about a Raichle hard boot that has a lot of flex so maybe it is a better idea to just find a comfy hard boot and use some Bomber plates:)  That way you can ride all of your boards without having to change your boots and need a bunch of different gear.

[b0ardski]

Now that I think about it though, I have read many posts on here about a Raichle hard boot that has a lot of flex so maybe it is a better idea to just find a comfy hard boot and use some Bomber plates:)  That way you can ride all of your boards without having to change your boots and need a bunch of different gear.

This^^^

I had clickers with the highbacks on the boot around '02, skylords I think, so one of the stiffest offerings. Loved K2 and wanted to like these.

Sold to a friend that needed good gear after 3-4 days use. They were great as far as softies go, but had a soft seemingly bottomless forward flex, and way less lateral stability than my soft 123 Raichles; which surfed the pow just fine w/burtons on the same 25cm wide all mt board; and carved better because of progressive forward flex.

One pair of boots and type of bindings for all my boards is way simpler. So even new & improved still makes for extra gear to cart around.

Soft, packable snow will clog the recesses in the boot sole and make the interface finicky. Not a deal breaker by itself, but it's a cavity in the bottom of a snowboot, an inherent design flaw imo.

[lordmetroland]

This^^^

They were great as far as softies go, but had a soft seemingly bottomless forward flex, and way less lateral stability than my soft 123 Raichles; which surfed the pow just fine w/burtons on the same 25cm wide all mt board; and carved better because of progressive forward flex.

One pair of boots and type of bindings for all my boards is way simpler. So even new & improved still makes for extra gear to cart around.

I have to confess having the same reaction to the Kwicker (aside from the cringeworthy name that sounds like something straight out of a Big 5 Sporting Goods sale rack). If the new version is as stiff as a ski boot, doesn't that obviate the one advantage of soft boots? Reviews from some splitboarders seem to count the stiffness as a negative, particularly in touring mode. And if the boot is a stiff as a hardboot, why not stick with a proven interface with greater adjustability?

The recall notice would make me nervous as a potential buyer, not because of the recall itself, but because it suggests that K2 has moved <800 sets of bindings. I'd have to wonder about K2's commitment to a product with that little uptake.

[RCrobar]

Everything is a Compromise

Hi BOardski

You make a lot of good points that I completely agree with.  

But ... I have found that softer hard boots like the Raichle 123's or 224's are great for freeriding, but I personally find them too soft for hard carving.  So I am back to square one in that I still need to drag a couple pairs of boots to the hill.

Basically in 90% of the snow conditions, except great powder days, I use one set of hard boots.  By mixing in flexy and stiffer bindings on different boards I have found a personal compromise that is good enough for me.

In good powder the mobility of soft boots, while sacrificing some hardboot power, is a lot of fun and my personal preference in the deep stuff.

I guess the question becomes is a modern soft boot set up like the K2 Stark and Kwickers better than a set of Raichle 123's and plates in powder?  I would think the new soft boots are better, if they were not you would see pros riding plates.  As there are so many personal preferences, this is a question that obvoiusly has no single answer!  Throw in the split board variable and this question probably gets even harder to answer.... arrrggg!

Sure wish it was possible to demo more gear, rather then spending a $1000, to find the answers to these questions! I guess this is why we ask the questions we do on this forum.

Cheers
Rob

Edited January 13, 2015 by RCrobar

[digger jr]

So has anyone confirmed that the old Clicker stuff is compatible with the Kwickers?

[HHH]

Yes, everything is compatible.

New boots work on old binding with no modifications.

[digger jr]

Thanks!

[philw]

I never rode the old ones, but almost all the back country soft booters I know used to ride them. So I hope this works out for K2.

 

Marketing it via the split board (as opposed to skate park) route is interesting and may be a hopeful sign for the business, which perhaps is experimenting with the thought that there may be people interested in snowboarding who are aged over 13. And those people may have, ahem, more money than the spotty kids. Who in any case they are losing to skiing.

[RCrobar]

Here is a picture and video just for fun!

The picture show the new Kwicker boots with the old clicker bindings on what I 'think' is a tow in surfboard.

Surfboard/Snowboard Hydrid Video

http://surf.transworld.net/1000142442/photos/rob-machado-shreds-a-surfboardsnowboard-hybrid/

Thanks for the feedback
Cheers
Rob